destruction of america

[datzenmike]

29 minutes ago, paradime said:

....

It takes some special blinders not to see the outcome of "unimpeded" gun ownership. You're in the minority to accept the 115,552 people shot and 43,163 killed last year as normal. The rest of us see this freedom requires far more responsibility than it's being given. A recent Fox News poll makes clear that the American people support gun control Amed at violence prevention:...

 

 

I have a question. Of the 115,552 shot and 43,163 killed how many were by people that legally owned their guns That would be the people that were actually identified as the shooter, naturally some would have gotten away.

[frankendat]

1 hour ago, paradime said:

No hyperbole? You regurgitate the myopic perspective of gun lobbyists as though it's gospel truth.  Saying there is a constant attack on the 2nd, the goal is that only rich people will own guns, and all it takes now is a simple accusation to enforce gun forfeiture is pure hyperbole.  What it actually takes for federally mandated gun seizure:

*A felony conviction

*Illegal drug use or addiction

*Has been found by a court to have a mental disability

*Not being a U.S. citizen and not in the U.S. legally; not having permanent resident status in the U.S.

*A fugitive from justice

*Dishonorably discharged from the military

*Has renounced their U.S. citizenship

*Is subject to a domestic violence protection order (DVPO)

*Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (MCDV)

 

In 1996, it was the Rep held congress and senate that passed the federal domestic violence protection order (18 U.S.C. 922(g)(9) So if they take someone's guns who  batters their domestic partner, how is that a battle lost?

 

https://www.justice.gov/file/411656/dl 

It is far from hyperbole you are also willfully blind. Did you go to congress.gov and view the backlog of guns and ammunition pending and proposed legislation? A domestic violence protective order is not adjudicated, it is based on the testimony of a single party, it is an ACCUSATION and the police come and take all guns that are registered or known to be owned. BUT WAIT, there's more, to retrieve your lawfully owned firearms, if they are not registered, you have to provide evidence, in court. Yes, to retrieve your lawfully owned firearms, you are forced to go before a judge and prove your grandfather's rifle was actually willed to you OR the weapon is destroyed. ALL THAT from an accusation of a misdemeanor.

Let's talk about domestic battery, because it is actual domestic assault and battery, but many jurisdictions the terms are (technically incorrectly) used interchangeably. The crime of assault is accomplished without touch. It is committed via threatening language. THEREFORE, you can be convicted of domestic violence and lose your Constitutional rights for yelling at your domestic partner. 

Domestic violence is a crime of public shame. I do not dispute the description, but we must be very careful to guard against a rush to judgment and damnation, before due course of justice. Because domestic violence is shameful and hidden in the shadows, evil political assholes use it to exploit their agenda of disarming American citizens. The use of public shame crimes a hallmark of a former communist regime. 

As for "training" "storage" and other laws, with the purpose of gun registration and to keep firearms in the hands of the rich; storage laws make firearms in accessible when they are needed most. Storage laws, once enacted for a while, more probably than not will have little impact on firearms used in self defense statistics. There are a number of reasons for this, which you can look up, but it undermines a pillar of the NRA argument for guns, which is the goal. Training, brings more unnecessary costly and time consuming certifications, who sets the standards etc. etc. etc. and in California, firearms brought to certification training must be registered and recorded, as the training is specified per weapon.

You have chosen ignorance, which is your right. I have statistics to match every one you cited that support my suppositions  and my numbers will convince you as yours convince me. 

2 hours ago, paradime said:

No cherry picked anecdotal account of a gun being used for protection will change this reality. 

It is a false dilemma. The best way I have heard it explained. "If you buy a house with a pool, then your chance for drowning in a pool rises significantly." The answer: So what?, scared of drowning don't own a pool. It only becomes a problem when you're so scared you want your neighbors pool filled in.

 

Enjoy the freedom to protect yourself and your family with a bat, I hope it works out for you. If I remember you are a Californian and I hope to never have reason to visit that state. Those scurrying away from that failed place and attempting to revisit it here or seeking federal controls for reaching others, better bring more than bats. 

 

Post script: I took NRA courses and shot NRA owned Winchester Model 52's earning the NRA shooting metals in the basement of my high school. A Californian ran for some lower political office (basically unopposed), closed the range and destroyed those fine weapons. It happened fast, my hometown was small but in the last few decades has become big. Those of us older were shocked how fast it all happened, we didn't think guns would ever be attacked in Idaho. 

"You wanna play blind man, go walk with the shepherd, but me, my eyes are wide fuckin' open." -P.F.

[frankendat]

On 8/9/2024 at 6:09 PM, datzenmike said:

Kent state was wrong. They were unarmed students protesting on a campus. No looting and burning of any government buildings. The National Guard lost control or their men and about 12 students were shot, 4 killed. Nine guardsmen were charged with violating civil rights and rightly so but were let off. I remember this, I was just twenty.

I agree that the National Guard lost control and military discipline would be appropriate. I also thought the sentence or lack thereof was appropriate. Once again, it is a case of fucking around and finding out, "protesting" while technically correct fails to capture the craziness of the whole ordeal. When 18 year old part time soldiers descend with good old military black and white orders, if your response is throwing bottles and rocks, insulting their mothers, and explaining how you're going to kick their ass, then I am not losing a bunch of sleep when you're shot.

I was disgusted by the treatment of soldiers upon their return to America. As well as, disgusted by America's actions. (The beginning of the poorly devised, ethically and morally bankrupt policy of "limited war" that remains a plague on our house.) 

 

These particular "protests" have common attributes, 1. They are populated by people who are pissed off 2. The systems for grievance have been ineffective, non responsive or absent. 3. Some get out of control. In my mind combining 1 and 2 will lead to 3 99% of the time. If voluntarily attending understanding that, then I am suspicious of your motives. These particular protests were much more like centralized rebellion and played a dangerous game. I do not agree that they should be hurt, I wouldn't even go so far as to say they deserved to be hurt, but like when that Las Vegas lion tamer was mauled to death, "eh, fuck around......"

 

It's why I avoid downtown when there is a protest or drive a few blocks out of my way, nearly every time I leave the house, to avoid the mini "tent city" Palestine protest, that's was or still is at the Capitol. I want to avoid a situation that could raise my blood pressure, find me on the news or have me incarcerated. I remind myself this when I hear those little jackoffs on the local radio.

 

 

[gh0stwerx76]

2 hours ago, frankendat said:

It is far from hyperbole you are also willfully blind. Did you go to congress.gov and view the backlog of guns and ammunition pending and proposed legislation? A domestic violence protective order is not adjudicated, it is based on the testimony of a single party, it is an ACCUSATION and the police come and take all guns that are registered or known to be owned. BUT WAIT, there's more, to retrieve your lawfully owned firearms, if they are not registered, you have to provide evidence, in court. Yes, to retrieve your lawfully owned firearms, you are forced to go before a judge and prove your grandfather's rifle was actually willed to you OR the weapon is destroyed. ALL THAT from an accusation of a misdemeanor.

Let's talk about domestic battery, because it is actual domestic assault and battery, but many jurisdictions the terms are (technically incorrectly) used interchangeably. The crime of assault is accomplished without touch. It is committed via threatening language. THEREFORE, you can be convicted of domestic violence and lose your Constitutional rights for yelling at your domestic partner. 

Domestic violence is a crime of public shame. I do not dispute the description, but we must be very careful to guard against a rush to judgment and damnation, before due course of justice. Because domestic violence is shameful and hidden in the shadows, evil political assholes use it to exploit their agenda of disarming American citizens. The use of public shame crimes a hallmark of a former communist regime. 

As for "training" "storage" and other laws, with the purpose of gun registration and to keep firearms in the hands of the rich; storage laws make firearms in accessible when they are needed most. Storage laws, once enacted for a while, more probably than not will have little impact on firearms used in self defense statistics. There are a number of reasons for this, which you can look up, but it undermines a pillar of the NRA argument for guns, which is the goal. Training, brings more unnecessary costly and time consuming certifications, who sets the standards etc. etc. etc. and in California, firearms brought to certification training must be registered and recorded, as the training is specified per weapon.

You have chosen ignorance, which is your right. I have statistics to match every one you cited that support my suppositions  and my numbers will convince you as yours convince me. 

It is a false dilemma. The best way I have heard it explained. "If you buy a house with a pool, then your chance for drowning in a pool rises significantly." The answer: So what?, scared of drowning don't own a pool. It only becomes a problem when you're so scared you want your neighbors pool filled in.

 

Enjoy the freedom to protect yourself and your family with a bat, I hope it works out for you. If I remember you are a Californian and I hope to never have reason to visit that state. Those scurrying away from that failed place and attempting to revisit it here or seeking federal controls for reaching others, better bring more than bats. 

 

Post script: I took NRA courses and shot NRA owned Winchester Model 52's earning the NRA shooting metals in the basement of my high school. A Californian ran for some lower political office (basically unopposed), closed the range and destroyed those fine weapons. It happened fast, my hometown was small but in the last few decades has become big. Those of us older were shocked how fast it all happened, we didn't think guns would ever be attacked in Idaho. 

"You wanna play blind man, go walk with the shepherd, but me, my eyes are wide fuckin' open." -P.F.

 

Red flag states. Also claims need substantiated before action is taken. Bruises or in some cases defensive motor mouthing while not considering just how powerless you are in a victim investigation. Im on the Conservative side of center and I can appreciate what they are trying to do. But as always Leary of government over reach. As of now no-one is coming for anything but taxes on tips and regulation enforcement (fines). All revenue generating. Locking people up isn't liberal popular.

 

Edited August 14 by gh0stwerx76
HEINEKIN! F that sht, Drink Pabst blue ribbon -Dennis Hopper

[bananahamuck]

[IZRL]

Harris and her hood rat dance moves.

 

 

[datzenmike]

Here's another that looks just as ridiculous...

 

 

 

 

[Ooph!]

14 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

I have a question. Of the 115,552 shot and 43,163 killed how many were by people that legally owned their guns That would be the people that were actually identified as the shooter, naturally some would have gotten away.

 

I have not found that number but found the suicide vs Homicide ratio, and the data is from 2021

https://usafacts.org/data/topics/security-safety/crime-and-justice/firearms/firearm-deaths/

 

 

[datzenmike]

mmm trying to identify the illegal gun 'owners' to which any laws or rules wouldn't apply but would only hamper legal owners.

[paradime]

18 hours ago, frankendat said:

 

"You wanna play blind man, go walk with the shepherd, but me, my eyes are wide fuckin' open." -P.F.

I LOVE that movie, and while I might be blind, my eyes are wide fuckin' open. My choices for home security aren't based on hypothetical what ifs.  In reality, walls don't stop bullets, so an alarm backed up with a bat is the safest form of protection for everyone in my home. It's also the advice I got from a republican uncle with 40 years in the police force, a cousin ex marine pilot now in National Security, and my stepmother who was a federal deputy DA prosecutor in SD. Why shouldn't I trust their advice?

 

The backlog of gun control bills are there because a majority of the public calls for it, and the powerful gun lobby blocks it. The only way one of these bills would become law is to get it passed by the house, senate, and signed by the executive. Truth is, the people's desire for common sense controls is not as dangerous, or likely to be answered as you want me to believe. Even a blind man can divide BS hyperbolic rhetoric from hard statistical reality. 

 

 

It's beyond ironic you would punctuate your argument by quoting a movie that literally makes my point for me. It was taken from Jules' reaction after breaking into Brett's apartment, shooting 3 people, and neither he or Vincent getting shot by the guy defending himself with a 357 mag revolver. It's also the scene where Vincent accidentally shoots Marvin in the face. Now watch the clip and tell me how it's a good pro gun message. 

 

 

[datzenmike]

Bad enough being a robber but taking a gun to a robbery could get you a harsher sentence or even murder charge. Baseball bat trumps knife/tire iron/flashlight.

 

 

 

 

[Cardinal Grammeter]

12 hours ago, Ooph! said:

 

I have not found that number but found the suicide vs Homicide ratio, and the data is from 2021

https://usafacts.org/data/topics/security-safety/crime-and-justice/firearms/firearm-deaths/

 

 

Curves like this that are not per capita are meaningless.  And if they choose to plot raw numbers, the vertical axis should be logarithmic.

[datzenmike]

Some of your heir aparent's most idiotic quotes...

 

 

This guy is dangerous. How has he ever lived this long?

[Cardinal Grammeter]

On 8/14/2024 at 10:27 AM, Ooph! said:

 

I have not found that number but found the suicide vs Homicide ratio, and the data is from 2021

https://usafacts.org/data/topics/security-safety/crime-and-justice/firearms/firearm-deaths/

 

 

Curves like this that are not per capita are meaningless.  And if they choose to plot raw numbers, the vertical axis should be logarithmic.

[Cardinal Grammeter]

My Doomsday scenario is happening:  Harris Road to the White House:  There's still a chance Harris will become president before the election - depends if Biden can live that long - If he declines into bonkers senility, he will remain president - even if in a coma. 

I'm impressed, my most likely theory was that Biden would get re-elected and then step down shortly thereafter handing it over to Harris - but things now are far more crazy.

 

While our country is in a weakened state, our foreign enemies will not take advantage because if they do, it would help Trump get elected due to foreign policy.  (The fact that they don't want Trump is an indication.)  So once Harris gets elected, our foreign policy will be ineffective even if Harris handlers tell her exactly what to say.  Can you imagine her going toe to toe in a room with Putin and whoever rules China?    

Of course if the young take over the USA, Russia and China, it'll be kumbaya.

 

[datzenmike]

Your country is not in a 'weakened state' any more than it has been for decades. The current president is spiraling the turlette and his veep is a douche, and the anti-christ is at their heels and that's about it. As far a militarily, economically, resolve, foreign diplomacy, defense and twenty other perimeters, they have a huge inertia that carries them forward no matter who's not in charge. Russia has shown itself to be incredibly corrupt militarily and logistically and unable to sustain any conflict. China is also falling apart. It's army, navy and air force has never learned a thing about war as it has never been in one. What it is good at are bio weapons. What's left is the impotent Hermit Kingdom which is bottled up with SK the cork. Little man talks big. 

[tr8er]

My pit bulls will likely never leave me the chance to stop a burglar myself.  Still though, guns are fingerprint safes may be here and there for, well, why not

 

[paradime]

My lab mix dog has bionic hearing, barks like a rottweiler, and hyper protective. Only problems is he doesn't have the killer instinct, and looks like a smerf. 

[tr8er]

3 hours ago, Cardinal Grammeter said:

My Doomsday scenario is happening:  Harris Road to the White House:  There's still a chance Harris will become president before the election - depends if Biden can live that long - If he declines into bonkers senility, he will remain president - even if in a coma. 

I'm impressed, my most likely theory was that Biden would get re-elected and then step down shortly thereafter handing it over to Harris - but things now are far more crazy.

 

While our country is in a weakened state, our foreign enemies will not take advantage because if they do, it would help Trump get elected due to foreign policy.  (The fact that they don't want Trump is an indication.)  So once Harris gets elected, our foreign policy will be ineffective even if Harris handlers tell her exactly what to say.  Can you imagine her going toe to toe in a room with Putin and whoever rules China?    

Of course if the young take over the USA, Russia and China, it'll be kumbaya.

 

Are you suggesting our foreign enemies don't want trump elected?  Do you not consider Russia to be an enemy of the US at this point?  

[frankendat]

3 hours ago, paradime said:

My lab mix dog has bionic hearing, barks like a rottweiler, and hyper protective. Only problems is he doesn't have the killer instinct, and looks like a smerf. 

Your dog is perfect. Relying on an animal to protect you and your family is problematic, relying on an animal to alert you and show you where to point is perfect.

[frankendat]

2 hours ago, tr8er said:

Are you suggesting our foreign enemies don't want trump elected?  Do you not consider Russia to be an enemy of the US at this point?  

I believe that the lefts claim of misogyny and gender prejudice are mostly false in the United States, but true for the majority of the world. Unless Harris, pulls some global power moves, as soon as, she is in office (which is problematic, because while necessary, it will put American lives in jeopardy) she will considered weak. It will embolden Russia and others to test her, like children with a substitute teacher, it will be all nice, nice, oh Harris we always do stuff like this, don't be a bitch. If she is nothing but a dumb bitch, then we get dominated globally, which hurts our economy, our position in the world, and makes life harder for citizens, like me. If she is smarter than a dumb bitch, then she is smart enough to further the left's agenda of mass immigration and disarmament, making life harder for citizens, like me. Fuck that cunt .  

[datzenmike]

1 hour ago, frankendat said:

... Fuck that cunt .  

 

Not cunt status quite yet. She has a long way to go to fill Killery's boots. For now just a douche. Putin had 45, he won't have 47. This is the party supplying Ukraine. It's academic anyway. Ukraine will be threatening Moscow in a month, Putin will have to deal with that, sue for ceasefire or peace. Might even be a revolt. Russia illegally annexed Crimea, illegally invaded another nation and totally misread everything and got mired down and now invaded for the first time since 41 that's 83 years and on his watch. How's that history lesson Tucker?????

[john510]

4 hours ago, tr8er said:

Are you suggesting our foreign enemies don't want trump elected?  Do you not consider Russia to be an enemy of the US at this point?  

Just why would our foreign enemies want Trump elected ? It makes no sense to want somebody with balls and an America first attitude as your adversary. Hell no they don't want him elected. How would it benefit any of them ? Maybe we buy Russian oil again ? Oh never mind we already are.

[Ooph!]

8 hours ago, Cardinal Grammeter said:

Curves like this that are not per capita are meaningless.  And if they choose to plot raw numbers, the vertical axis should be logarithmic.

 

My point in posting that was the relationship of Suicide to Homicide, it would be interesting to see the per capita numbers I would think its fairly flat.

[frankendat]

On 8/14/2024 at 6:37 PM, paradime said:

I LOVE that movie, 

Pulp Fiction and Datsuns we are in agreement

On 8/14/2024 at 6:37 PM, paradime said:

My choices for home security aren't based on hypothetical what ifs.

All choices for security are based on hypothetical what ifs.

 

I have a law and security pedigree, but won't list it, you are free to disbelieve. I do not know the specifics of your situation and understand firearms are not the best choice for everyone. The decision should be individual and, except for specific, defined, well adjudicated exceptions, not a matter for the government.

 

On 8/14/2024 at 6:37 PM, paradime said:

majority of the public calls for it

Since when do you or anyone on Destruction trust the majority?

 

On 8/14/2024 at 6:37 PM, paradime said:

desire for common sense controls is not as dangerous, or likely to be answered as you want me to believe

And like that, you lose credibility. Under the guise of "common sense controls" liberty is stolen, rights are dismissed and tyranny reigns. I believe it springs from fear and helplessness. The error is to assume this is the same fear, which drives gun ownership. Admittedly, the emotion is similar, in some aspects identical, but at the core it could not be more different. One prays for a savior, one accepts the responsibility of self reliance. When learning of a shooting or other evil enterprise, one embraces the fantasy screaming "We (meaning someone else) needs to take guns, so I am safe" The other states "I need to get my gun and protect mine." You are the former, I am the latter.

As I have said, there are multiple NRA sites that debunk the "hard statistics" to which you cling and, to be fair, there are sites that debunk the debunkers and on and on. I have debated this most of my adult life and all that is for certain, statistics never change minds. 

The few times, that I have witnessed a change, has come after victimization of crime. As much as, I endeavor to gain support, I do not wish that on anyone and sincerely, hope you prove your statistics and never have need of a firearm.