[•••DTP's © 240z project •••]

[I'm BLUE]

Just kinda wandered across this ......man i thought it was getting a little colder lately.

 

.

 

I think the chevro soleil guys don`t like the saganaw because the gears are sometimes pretty far apart..and shifting is like rowing a boat. Which makes it perfect for a Datsun ...well going off what my Datsuns shift like anyways..

 

Haha ! That's what I have heard as well !!! Never shifted a saginaw , but a muncie close ratio mmmmm ... Too rich for my blood lol .

 

Agreed on the wider ratios ! 3.50 geared 1st should prove interesting outta the hole on a 2500 lb-ish car , ,, :D but the slower shifting required should equal things out :o :lol: ... That's why I need a hurst :D

[I'm BLUE]

Just got done welding up exhaust ... No pics I'm pooped ... It's Christmas eve tomorrow ... Lay off for a couple of days

 

Pieced together and welded up a drive-line GM front slip-yoke , Datsun tube , Datsun rear flange ,,, ( just for engine testing , not to drive around in ) proper Driveline to be put in before licensed ...

 

Went to hardware store ... Picked up bolts and nuts ... For headers , down pipe flanges , radiator fan , radiator , and other hardware ? Tired right atm ...

 

Car needs gear oil for trans , anti-freeze , headers need to clearance them around the spark plug boots (heat up with a torch and push in just a touch around 2-3 plug wires ,,, ) , trans output seal should be done before start-up but not critical , and a couple of other things I can't forget ...nor can I remember at this moment ! lol

[Jennifer]

awesome!! excited to see the end result!! keep up the good work blue

[elmerfudpucker]

headers need to clearance them around the spark plug boots (heat up with a torch and push in just a touch around 2-3 plug wires ,,, )

 

Dont they have some kind of asbestos boot for that?

[I'm BLUE]

Dont they have some kind of asbestos boot for that?

 

Thx for the tip ! I was hoping the same ... The 90 degree angled spark plug boots ... At the headers on two of the center spark plug boots ... Just ... Barely touchs.....enough that I have to do something about it.. I will definetly look for and research that ! Thx man !

 

It's just cheaper for me to clearance them the way I mentioned atm ... I have a torch lol .... I don't like the idea ... But it keeps me rockin and moving forward on the build ... Such as this method ...I do things on the cheap iwhen I can . Lol

[elmerfudpucker]

A bit of wire and some header wrap, I would hate to put a dent in the header, wouldnt it cause a bit of a flow/heat issue?

Hell, Im sure one of they guys could swing some by!

[I'm BLUE]

Patched together dual exhaust ,,, use to test ,,, once bugs figured out and car licensed ,,, will drive down to exhaust shop ,,, and have them run a nice purty new 2.5" Dual exhaust ,,, :D ,,,, but until then ,,, dual 2" exhaust shall do !! :)

 

Took off the transmission side-cover to re-seal it ,,, This is the external linkage to the shift-forks located in this cover ,,,

 

 

Linkage Rods are disconnected ,,, they are held on by washers on the back-side ,,, and cotter-key type pins ,,, ( I need to buy the correct ones ,,, they did not come with the transmission )

 

 

Pulled off the cover ,,, you can see gears inside yay ! ,,, of course it needs GL-4 Gear Fluid as well ,,, Gold Metal Synchro's ,,,

 

 

This is a picture of the inside of the shifter/transmission cover ,,, you can see (2) Shift forks poking out ,,, right fork is 1st/2nd gear shift fork,,, left is 3rd/4th gear shift fork ,,, reverse has it's own system ! lol ( a little selector )

 

 

(Top Gears in Picture ) ,,, From Far Left ---> (Top Gears) ,,, 4th ,,, 3rd ,,,, 2nd ,,,, (Reverse ,,, the one with straight cut gears ) ,,,, 1st

 

(Bottom Gears in Picture ) ,,, Cluster Shaft Gears ,,, usually one piece cast on these ,,, but ,,, not entirely sure atm while I type this lol ,,, would be nice if 1st/2nd were replaceable ,,, but more likely not ,,, do not take my word on it at this moment lol ,,,

 

 

 

 

 

showing access cover is on the drivers side ,,, gotta seal it later ,,, I want to take a closer look at 2nd Gear Synchro ,,, like I said earlier ,,, feels a touch funny shifting (being really really picky) ,,, and Synchro looks just a touch worn ,,, so I guess I will note this , and test/work out bugs on whole V8 conversion ,,, then rebuild/repair or have this done by a tranny shop if cheap ,,, I was quoted around the $400 figure to have this done ,,, might do it myself ,,, IDK yet ,,,, Christmas eve dinner soon !

 

[DAT510]

Ollz i was wondering how you got access to the gear selectors with the tranny installed.

 

Are those the exhauzzz pipes???? They're huge!

[I'm BLUE]

Ollz i was wondering how you got access to the gear selectors with the tranny installed.

 

Are those the exhauzzz pipes???? They're huge!

 

currently 2" pipe running to the mufflers ,,,, the "pipes" you see in the pics of my last post !! They are actually the DUAL Glass-Pack Mufflers ,,:) ! ,,, ollz ,,, vrooom VROOM ,,, only 2" dual exhaust pipe curretly ,,, ,,,, but it's dual either way haha ,,, will have bigger pipe installed ,,, once car is ready to be driven officially and licensed ,,,, hopefully dual exhaust continued out the back ,,, not side by side exit at the drivers side *( so I can keep spare tire ) ,,, ,,, body work required ! lol :)

[I'm BLUE]

Whoops !!! I thought I had posted a picture of my re-used , recycled ,,, exhaust ,,, lol ,,, here it is !!! ( rear exit pipes will be cut/re-welded so they dont scrape ,,, if they scape ! lol ,,, this is really more of a test exhaust system ,,, I probably will keep the glass-packs if I can lol ,,,

 

PIC !!!

 

 

 

Naow time for Christmas Eve dinner !!! yum !!!

[DAT510]

i count 7

[I'm BLUE]

i count 7

Ollz ... I love my jackstands

[Jennifer]

Ollz ... I love my jackstands

 

:) why are there so jackstands?.... for sure safety?..

[I'm BLUE]

:) why are there so jackstands?.... for sure safety?..

Haha. z on 4 jack stands ... rest being used to hold and tack weld.exhaust.in position ... then pull back out exhaust ... finish welding,g ... then put back under ... rest on jackstsnds ... then position and bolt in place :)

 

I shoulda did it on emergency car stands haha

[Jennifer]

Bahama ... z on 4 jack stands ... rest being used to hold and tack weld.exhaust.in position ... then pull back out exhaust ... finish welding,g ... then put back under ... rest on jackstsnds ... then position and bolt in place :)

 

ohh okay.. derr derr :D i understands naow

[bananahamuck]

Wanna do something really cool??

Put your finger between gears and have your older brother slowly turn in-put shaft to check for wear..It`s weird how you can re-grow finger prints..

 

I said slowly !!

[DRIVEN]

A few points about your transmission:

-How many rings on the input shaft of that Saginaw? It will be useful to know when calculating your compound low gearing Rear ratio X first gear ratio). General consensus is that somewhere in the 10:1 range is optimal.

http://www.teufert.net/trans/saginaw.htm

With your 3.54 rear ratio, a ringless would be just about perfect. Unfortunately the 2 & 3 ring versions are the most common. Less rings = stronger too.

-You mentioned that if felt suspect shifting into 2nd gear. With the transmission out of the car it's pretty tough to actually assess the condition of the synchros unless there is an obvious failure. You can use a feeler gauge between the flat side of the synchro and the corresponding gear and compare them all to judge the amount of wear. The Saginaw is one of the easiest transmissions to rebuild and I suggest buying a kit and doing it yourself. There are no special tools required.

1. Remove input bearing retainer (throwout collar).

2. Remove input shaft.

3. Separate tailhousing from main case. Slide the tailhousing with the mainshaft assy out the back. It may be helpful to drive out the cluster shaft and let the cluster gear drop to the bottom of the case to gain added clearance.

4. Remove cluster gear from case. There is no need to remove the reverse idler gear unless the bushing feels sloppy. It's probably just fine.

5. Disassemble and clean everything. Pay close attention to the groove that the shift dogs "notch into" inside the two sliders. They get caked with powdered metal and cause the transmission to pop out of gear. Most people blame bad syncros for that problem.

6. Reassemble with new bearings, synchros, seals and gaskets in reverse order.

-You were correct that the cluster is one piece and the gears are not replaceable.

-Once you have it together and start driving the car there is one thing you must never do. NO REVERSE BURNOUTS! If there is a design shortfall in the Saginaw -- this is it. There is only partial gear engagement in reverse and it's a bit fragile. Always make sure you are ALL the way into reverse before letting out the clutch. I've had probably a dozen of these transmissions and never had a failure but all the broken units that I've acquired seem to be damage in reverse.

[I'm BLUE]

A few points about your transmission:

-How many rings on the input shaft of that Saginaw? It will be useful to know when calculating your compound low gearing Rear ratio X first gear ratio). General consensus is that somewhere in the 10:1 range is optimal.

http://www.teufert.net/trans/saginaw.htm

With your 3.54 rear ratio, a ringless would be just about perfect. Unfortunately the 2 & 3 ring versions are the most common. Less rings = stronger too.

-You mentioned that if felt suspect shifting into 2nd gear. With the transmission out of the car it's pretty tough to actually assess the condition of the synchros unless there is an obvious failure. You can use a feeler gauge between the flat side of the synchro and the corresponding gear and compare them all to judge the amount of wear. The Saginaw is one of the easiest transmissions to rebuild and I suggest buying a kit and doing it yourself. There are no special tools required.

1. Remove input bearing retainer (throwout collar).

2. Remove input shaft.

3. Separate tailhousing from main case. Slide the tailhousing with the mainshaft assy out the back. It may be helpful to drive out the cluster shaft and let the cluster gear drop to the bottom of the case to gain added clearance.

4. Remove cluster gear from case. There is no need to remove the reverse idler gear unless the bushing feels sloppy. It's probably just fine.

5. Disassemble and clean everything. Pay close attention to the groove that the shift dogs "notch into" inside the two sliders. They get caked with powdered metal and cause the transmission to pop out of gear. Most people blame bad syncros for that problem.

6. Reassemble with new bearings, synchros, seals and gaskets in reverse order.

-You were correct that the cluster is one piece and the gears are not replaceable.

-Once you have it together and start driving the car there is one thing you must never do. NO REVERSE BURNOUTS! If there is a design shortfall in the Saginaw -- this is it. There is only partial gear engagement in reverse and it's a bit fragile. Always make sure you are ALL the way into reverse before letting out the clutch. I've had probably a dozen of these transmissions and never had a failure but all the broken units that I've acquired seem to be damage in reverse.

 

Cool! Thanks for all that man! It has 3-rings on the input shaft , so I have the weaker one I apparently , but I know where to get a no-ring unit after I bought my 3-ring unit. I was looking for a. "No-ring" as I though this would be perfectly suited for this. This is good to hear it is a simple trans to repair and rebuild.

 

I will be using feelers gauges ... to measure this ... very soon!

 

Link bookmarked sweet! !! I scoured through the internets finding as much info as I can on the saginaws.

 

Lol reverse burnouts sound interesting and I will not be doing that ... lol

 

! Looking at the reverse shift lever I was not sure .... which hole to engage the reverse lever in ... there's 5 of them ... lol ... when sitting in the car reverse is " push down/ then down and to the left" for the shift pattern.

 

Any insight on the coorrect placement of the reverse lever rod .... in the reverse shift lever.

 

Thanks in advanced! Merry Christmas All !

[I'm BLUE]

Wanna do something really cool??

Put your finger between gears and have your older brother slowly turn in-put shaft to check for wear..It`s weird how you can re-grow finger prints..

 

I said slowly !!

 

Interesting bananna-keeper !!! Lol

[I'm BLUE]

A few points about your transmission:

-How many rings on the input shaft of that Saginaw? It will be useful to know when calculating your compound low gearing Rear ratio X first gear ratio). General consensus is that somewhere in the 10:1 range is optimal.

http://www.teufert.net/trans/saginaw.htm

With your 3.54 rear ratio, a ringless would be just about perfect. Unfortunately the 2 & 3 ring versions are the most common. Less rings = stronger too.

-You mentioned that if felt suspect shifting into 2nd gear. With the transmission out of the car it's pretty tough to actually assess the condition of the synchros unless there is an obvious failure. You can use a feeler gauge between the flat side of the synchro and the corresponding gear and compare them all to judge the amount of wear. The Saginaw is one of the easiest transmissions to rebuild and I suggest buying a kit and doing it yourself. There are no special tools required.

1. Remove input bearing retainer (throwout collar).

2. Remove input shaft.

3. Separate tailhousing from main case. Slide the tailhousing with the mainshaft assy out the back. It may be helpful to drive out the cluster shaft and let the cluster gear drop to the bottom of the case to gain added clearance.

4. Remove cluster gear from case. There is no need to remove the reverse idler gear unless the bushing feels sloppy. It's probably just fine.

5. Disassemble and clean everything. Pay close attention to the groove that the shift dogs "notch into" inside the two sliders. They get caked with powdered metal and cause the transmission to pop out of gear. Most people blame bad syncros for that problem.

6. Reassemble with new bearings, synchros, seals and gaskets in reverse order.

-You were correct that the cluster is one piece and the gears are not replaceable.

-Once you have it together and start driving the car there is one thing you must never do. NO REVERSE BURNOUTS! If there is a design shortfall in the Saginaw -- this is it. There is only partial gear engagement in reverse and it's a bit fragile. Always make sure you are ALL the way into reverse before letting out the clutch. I've had probably a dozen of these transmissions and never had a failure but all the broken units that I've acquired seem to be damage in reverse.

 

Also ... agreed completely that it is indeed tough to diagnose a transmission not behind a running rig first ... it just simply feels a touch funny , 2nd gear synchro teeth look a bit worn at a glance. it being 2nd gear would one be surprised? Lol

 

Your tips, and help is greatly appreciated :

And shall be applied :)

[DRIVEN]

With the shifter mounted and in reverse, put the reverse lever in gear also. Choose the hole with the appropriate amount of travel. Back to neutral and recheck. Repeat as necessary. Most shifters don't have adjustable stops for the reverse position (if they have any at all). It's pretty much a trial and error thing on those universal levers. You want full travel without forcing it too far. Make sense?

 

EDIT: Just went back over your posts. Looks like you have a factory GM shifter. They're sloppy and have no adjustable stops. Throw that think in the F'n lake and buy a Hurst or even an Indy (Hurst's econo line). I know they cost money but but you'll be glad you did. If you want extra street-cred points, try to find an old V-Gate shifter. They're just complicated enough to practically be considered a theft deterrent.

[I'm BLUE]

With the shifter mounted and in reverse, put the reverse lever in gear also. Choose the hole with the appropriate amount of travel. Back to neutral and recheck. Repeat as necessary. Most shifters don't have adjustable stops for the reverse position (if they have any at all). It's pretty much a trial and error thing on those universal levers. You want full travel without forcing it too far. Make sense?

EDIT: Just went back over your posts. Looks like you have a factory GM shifter. They're sloppy and have no adjustable stops. Throw that think in the F'n lake and buy a Hurst or even an Indy (Hurst's econo line). I know they cost money but but you'll be glad you did. If you want extra street-cred points, try to find an old V-Gate shifter. They're just complicated enough to practically be considered a theft deterrent.

 

Yes sir you conveyed that clearly :)

 

Yup, I needed a shifter, any shifter, for mockup, been looking for a cheap used Hurst. The search for one of these has been less than promising for.my budget build. I very much believe you on being glad once stock shifter is replaced with hurst , indy , or old v-gate shifter haha. I will be replacing the gm stock shifter first thing once car is all together, and all criticals are accounted for running/driving/stopping.

 

Ooooooo-oooooo INDY shifters made by Hurst, ,, cool, ,, gotta check that out, ,,,

 

Much appreciated :)

[I'm BLUE]

Poll votes are going nicely .... :D :lol:

 

Delayed initial start up testing ... focus back on trans ... pulled off sidecover ... synchro teeth all looked to be excellent ... slid synchro hubs back and forth ... all checks out good!

 

So i checked the shift forks ... they loom good ... 3rd-4th fork has a little wear but not a lot ...

 

1-2nd fork operation felt a touch funny ... worked and inspected it for a bit ... put it back on the trans ... operated it ... felt better ... then i took the spring at the bottom in the picture ... and cupped it a bit tighter ... it feels much smoother! Trans guy around the corner said these can become weak ... and mimic the conditions of a worn synchronous block ring ...

 

 

I will be ordering one ... soon and installing ... trans all back together for now

[datzenmike]

How have I missed this till now? Nice going.

[I'm BLUE]

How have I missed this till now? Nice going.

 

Haha :lol:

 

Thanks datzenmike !!! :D