Euro look (stretched?) tires...

[pope_face]

Does anyone know anything about the Euro look wheel/tire combos? I'm assume that's what stretched tires are... tires with a tread that's narrower than the wheel width, so the sidewall just curves down and in, rather than extending past the lip of the rim. I've always liked the look and I'd like to try it on my 521. My truck has 195/75R14's on it, on what looks to be 14x7" rims, so I'll just use those for comparison.

 

Now, let's just assume the entire drivetrain is being kept the same, and I want to affect my top speed and acceleration as little as possible... so the tire diameter has to stay very close to what it is currently. I also want to keep the same amount of tread, or more, on the road... and I think the whole setup looks best with lower profile tires than stock, maybe with about 2" of sidewall... so I'm likely looking at 16x8" wheels or larger...

 

What I want to know is, has anyone had any experiance with a wheel/tire combination of this sort, either running it themselves or knowing someone who has? Is there:

 

A) A limit to how much narrower the tread can be compared to the wheel width? (In terms of actual measurements and/or a percentage)

B) A recommended sidewall width range? (Again, in terms of actual measurements and/or a ratio/percentage of sidewall width to wheel diameter)

C) A recommended ratio of A to B? (i.e.: for every X" of sidewall width, do not exceed Y" of difference between tread and wheel width.)

 

D) Is there a certain type of tire that should be used when doing something like this? For example, passenger vs light truck, high performance vs all season, etc.

 

E) Will stretching the tire affect any of the tires specs, in terms of speed rating, load capacity, tire pressure, etc? I don't think speed rating would be affected, but I can see the maximum load decreasing... I'm not sure how tire pressure would be affected, other than having to more vigilant about keeping the tires properly inflated at all times...

 

There are probably more questions that I could ask, but I can't think of any more... I know this is something to ask a tire shop, but I'd like to go in and ask more specific questions rather than spending half an hour asking about basics...

 

Thanks for the help... hopefully this will be useful to more people than just me... :rolleyes:

[pope_face]

Alright, looks like I would've found what I needed sooner if I'd done a google search... just another reason to do a search before asking stupid questions... but, if anyone's interested, there's a pretty good rundown here. It doesn't answer all the questions though...

[datsunaholic]

"Euro look"?

 

I always thought it was the Mexican/Filipino look. You know, with whitewalls and gold wire Daytons with so much offset they stuck out of the wheelwells. A couple guys on my old Navy unit had that going. One was on a 80s Mazda pickup, and it stuck out so much he got pulled over. And the cops found the "legalize pot" brochures he had on the floor, which got him a drug test and kicked out of the Navy when it was positive. The other was on a '65 Impala SS which looked awful). He had so much offset on the Impala the wheel studs sheared off on the freeway, destroying an original SS fender. This was in 1995. I thought that fad had disappeared.

 

Add curb feelers and excessive chrome or gold plating to complete the look.

[pope_face]

"Euro look"?

 

I always thought it was the Mexican/Filipino look. You know, with whitewalls and gold wire Daytons with so much offset they stuck out of the wheelwells.

 

Add curb feelers and excessive chrome or gold plating to complete the look.

 

Thanks... :rolleyes:

 

I'm not into 13" Daytons, just like I'm not into 22's. I'm into simpler wheels with some dish to them and big enough to suit the car, but not so big to overpower it. The only reason I said Euro was because the VW's were really the only cars I saw sporting these tire/wheel combos, and I'd never heard the term "stretched" applied in this way before... Then again, I've been more into the import tuners rather than American muscle for a while, so maybe my view is biased. Who knows?

 

Truth is, I roughly priced out what it would cost to get something like this, and it ended up being quite a bit more than I'd originally expected... So it looks like the Datsun will be spared the embarassment (:rolleyes:) of the look, at least for the time being.

[phatdave]

Thanks... :rolleyes:

 

 

Truth is, I roughly priced out what it would cost to get something like this, and it ended up being quite a bit more than I'd originally expected... So it looks like the Datsun will be spared the embarassment (:rolleyes:)

:blink:of the look, at least for the time being.

Fuckin Scotsman? Weve been known to do some silly shit...take the Kilt for example...and Cabre tossing. Lord of mercy...oyvey

 

Oh shit thats the Jewish coming out in me..sorry I've been drinking, HEY I'm Scottish,give me a break.:lol:

[datzenmike]

Fuckin Scotsman? Weve been known to do some silly shit...take the Kilt for example...and Cabre tossing. Lord of mercy...oyvey

 

Oh shit thats the Jewish coming out in me..sorry I've been drinking, HEY I'm Scottish,give me a break.:lol:

 

My mother was from northern England, had red hair. Somewhere back in the past there's a Scottish influence I'm sure. Hey, Dave, did you know copper wire was discovered by a Scotsman??

[datsunfreak]

The only reason I said Euro was because the VW's were really the only cars I saw sporting these tire/wheel combos, and I'd never heard the term "stretched" applied in this way before...

 

Although the VW crowd is deep into it, it started in Japan a long time ago. VW guys call it "euro", Japanese guys call it "stretch".

 

it ended up being quite a bit more than I'd originally expected... So it looks like the Datsun will be spared the embarassment.

 

Too bad. It's a nice look for Dattos, when done correctly.

 

[datsunfreak]

My Volks have a bit of stretch, not a ton...

 

215/40-16 on a 16x8...

 

 

[LAYEDOUTB2K]

ive seen that done on a lot of drift cars. theyll put on 16s or 17s with a massive dish in it, then stretch some smaller tires on it. one big reason is smaller tires are a lot cheaper than bigger tires. especially when your burnin em off.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Man those Volks are nice wheels!!!!!!!!

[pope_face]

Wow, thanks for the posts... I didn't realize this many people actually had an interest in this look...

 

I keep going back and forth between doing it and not... The wheels are cheap, but the tires I was looking at were in the range of about $250 each... I'll need 5 of them (because having a 14x6 steelie as a spare is not how I want to roll), so if I price out tires and wheels it's about $2000... Doable, but not that cheap... Besides, what good are nice wheels and tires if I don't drop the truck? So either coilovers or airbags... and then the brakes need to be changed, but the steering components are 37 years old, so it'd be nice to swap the whole front end out...

 

You see where this is going? Maybe one day, but for now I'll focus on the more necessary bits...

 

Actually, that reminds me... there's probably a whole writeup somewhere around here, but would it be possible to swap in all the suspension/steering components from a later model Datsun w/ disk brakes onto a 521, or would it be possible to swap in the 620 setup and just do the disk brake swap? I mean, I know anything's possible with enough money, but would this be a relatively straight-forward swap, or would it require a lot of fabrication?

[tnip]

why are the tires so expensive? i would assume you're looking for a small sidewall. that datto up there ^ has pretty large sidewall tires and still looks good stretched. just my .02.

 

why do you need coilovers or airbags to drop your truck? crank your torsion bars, reindex them and crank them a lil more, and then throw some blocks under the axle... you'll be set.

 

as far as brakes, no. the only "bolt-on" disc brakes happen by buying a bracket set from fineline or beebani (the only two making them, afaik) and then bolting those brackets on with the proper calipers and discs.

[fiveoneohray]

I stretch tires all the time on the cars that come through the shop. The biggest stretch I have done is a 255 45 18 on a 18x12" wide rim. In general for a good stretch on a 7" you want a 185. If its on a 14" wheel you and up with a 60 series tire so it ends up a decent stretch.

There are many reasons to stretch and the main reason is to get the rims 'hella flush' and have the tire still under the wheel well. Also the tire has no sidewall flex any longer so you and up with easier initiation for drifting.

 

 

 

 

This is an example of a set that was just mounted. Many tire shops wont do a stretch like this.

If you get me the wheel size I can give you a good idea of what width tire to get the amount of stretch you want.

[bluemeanie]

Hmm maybe i just dont get it, but I think that looks terrible. Nothing against who's car that is, but I'd rather have wheels that fit, not to mention tires that fit the rims.

[pope_face]

tnip: I was looking at small sidewalls... I guess I could go with a larger profile... That Dat does look pretty good with the larger sidewalls, although I'm not much for the tires... I like the white lettering on some setups, but I think it kinda throws off the stretch... As for the lowering, I know I can lower it pretty easily, but as far as I can tell the stock suspension wasn't designed for handling... that's why I mentioned coilovers or airbags. If I'm going to drop a couple grand on a set of tires and rims, the least I could do is put in a decent suspension setup to go with it... otherwise I may as well get a Honda and call it a day. :rolleyes:

 

Ray: I was hoping to keep roughly the stock diameter... 195/75R14, correct? I'd prefer not to go any larger than 16's, but I could probably get them in either a 8" or a 10" wide rim... I'd likely go with an 8" just because I don't know if a 10" will fit front and back... I like the look of wider rear wheels, but right now it's not worth it. As far as tires go... Would you recommend I get a high-performance tire, or would a regular all-season work? I need something that's good on both wet and dry roads... I'll have another set of rims for snow, so that shouldn't be an issue. Any suggestions?

 

Bluemeanie: I know what you mean... everybody has their preferances. Personally I don't like spinners, but some people do. Guess it's just personal preferance.

[datsunfreak]

Ray: I was hoping to keep roughly the stock diameter... 195/75R14, correct? I'd prefer not to go any larger than 16's, but I could probably get them in either a 8" or a 10" wide rim... I'd likely go with an 8" just because I don't know if a 10" will fit front and back...

 

To keep stock diameter and a modicum of stretch, I'd go 16x8 and a 195/50-16 or 205/50-16. For what it's worth, it's easier to get stretched tires installed if you have a tall-ish sidewall. For low-profile and a stretch, it's tough to get anyone to install them. It's a safety issue to them.

 

As far as tires go... Would you recommend I get a high-performance tire, or would a regular all-season work? I need something that's good on both wet and dry roads...

 

I'll probably head for "all-season performance" if those were my requirements.

[phatdave]

Is this something I can do with my studded snow tires?

 

I have some 165 75 14s. I have 14x8 inch rims. I'm thinking what a look that wil be at Government Camp this winter....I might end up with the studs on the outside of the tire ...sort of a MAD MAX look.:fu:

[datsunfreak]

Do it!!!

[pope_face]

Alright, I did a search for Dunlops in a 205/50R16... The SP Sport 5000 and the Direzza DZ101 seemed like the best choices... apparently both have about an 8/10 rating for wet and dry traction... MSRP is $115 for the latter, $135 for the former... about $600 in savings over the tires I was looking at before...

 

Thanks for the suggestion Freak... I may actually go through with it after all...

[fiveoneohray]

to keep it close 16x8. I will be posting my wheels up as soon as they show up at my doorstep, mmmm maybe. So 16x8 a 195 50 will be pretty stretched but a little bubbly since its a 50 series. If you go with a 205 you will be sitting with a slight stretch but go with a 45 series. Just remember the series gets taller as the tire gets wider. Ie. a 205 50 will be taller that a 195 50.

I would not really go with a all season since the sidewalls are pretty thin and soft.

Federal ss595

Perelli P zero nero

 

both of those are good all around but not really an 'all season' tire. the side walls can handle it well.

 

 

I am waiting on my 16x7 zero offset and I will have a 195 50 16 or a 45 series. I am not going towards a total stretch.

 

 

 

thats what was on my 620 and there was a slight stretch. just to give you an idea.

[pope_face]

Ray: Thanks for the suggestion... from your experiance, a 16x8" rim will fit on a 521? Or are the 620 and 521 two completely different setups?

 

I checked the online tire calculator... assuming the stock tire is a 195/75R14, the replacement would have to be about 205/60R16 in order to be about the same size... it would be just 4 mm taller. I might be able to get away with a 55, but then it'd be about... a centimeter shorter than stock? I do a lot of highway driving, so I don't know how much that would affect the speed...

 

An 8" rim would only be about 210 mm wide, including the lip... if I went with the 205's there really wouldn't be much of a difference... the 195's would be more noticable, but not by much. Would a 9" rim with 195's fit, or would it rub on either the inner or outer fender at full lock?

 

BTW, sucks about that curbing... I'm super picky about my cars... I don't let anyone drive them unless I have to leave town for an extended period... last time I did that my friend ran my Explorer on nearly flat tires and with almost no power steering fluid... I think the oil was low too.

[fiveoneohray]

The tire calculator is not going to be totally accurate since you are losing alot of tire height when you stretch.

A 8" rim fits but its the offset you have to figure out. The Titans on the 620 only rubbed when I was at full lock entering a driveway with a ramp. Those things are in the +40mm offset range. Unfortunately I never really checked the width and offset. In the pic they were mounted on the 620 without a spacer on the front and a 2mm spacer on the rear to clear the hub center.

That wheel size combo ended up with the speedo being almost a dead on 5mph too fast.

If you are not in a hurry to get this done my wheels should be here this week and I can check fitment on my 521. They are 16x7 0 . I can mount the wheels and see what tires I will have to run. I may have t stretch the crap out of them.

As for a 8" with a 205, it will have a little stretch and would look pretty good.

 

 

Just for fun here are the wheels that I am waiting for. :D

 

As far as the 9" wheels you may be pushing it but its hard to say because it all depends on the chosen/offered offset.

[datzenmike]

I don't know about this. The rim should match the tire width (give or take) The tire will have to be forced over onto the rim and held with air pressure. If you let the presure down it would be natural for the tire to want to separate from the rim more easily than one on the proper size. Accidently running on low tire pressure or a slow leak or a puncture could cause the tire to peel off the rim. What about hard cornering? or severe sideways drift with brakes locked? Will you find yourselt in a worse situation when one or more tires flop off their rims?

What do the tire manufacturers suggest????????????

[fiveoneohray]

None of the concerns that you posted actually exist. When the tires are all worn out (down to the cords) I still have to use the bead popper on my tire machine to get the tire off after deflating it.

On drift cars the tires are always seeing extreme angles with the brakes locked. Hard cornering is what drift tires deal with when they initiate a drift.

This is nothing new to the world just it is finally making it to the normal crowd.

Of course the tire manufacturer does not suggest it but in the same breath an auto manufacturer does not suggest lowering your car.

[fiveoneohray]

Also here is an example of a car with heavily stretched tires that was involved in a massive accident, including another car and a set of railroad tracks not at a crossing. I drove the car back to my shop. Keep in mind these are also 255's on a 12" rim in the rear and 205's on a 10" in the front. And no the tire stretch was not a contributing factor in the accident. He was getting sideways.

As you can see the bead did not 'flop' off the rim and even with the deflated tires they still held a bead on three of the wheels.