Engine swap

[Rusty Dawg]

I am wondering, could it be that the "E1" engine was different than an "E" engine that came in my PLG truck?

[datzenmike]

The earlier one may have been a single barrel carburetor. My 225 slant six Dodge was a 1 bbl Ball & Ball carburetor

[Rusty Dawg]

Here's a shot of the manifold minus the carb which I removed to have the plunger repaired in the meantime with "not sure who" in my area, so I can keep driving it until I decide how to proceed with an engine swap.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Rusty Dawg

[datzenmike]

Single barrel.

[Rusty Dawg]

10 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Single barrel.

I would assume I would just have to measure the distance from each head stud and the bolt holes where the intake bolts up to the exhaust if I decide to go with any 4 bolt mount carb, no?  BTW...would you know what the copper pipe from the bottom of the of the intake manifold that drops about 18" down is for? 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

6 hours ago, Rusty Dawg said:

Just reached out to the guy with the truck for sale for $4,500 and he said he would take $4K for it since it's rare.  I made him an offer well below and he told me he had passed on an offer for $3,500 several months ago.  I mentioned that if he still had the guy's number he might want to reach out and take that offer.  I told him my offer stood if he changed his mind.

Seriously though, cash talks. Wave actual dollar bills in his face and get the job done. As far as his other offer, don't even bring it up. If it was real, he already knows. If it was bullshit, then you've called his bluff and it might set him off.

 

I have a strict policy of not taking "offers" on anything unless I see the bills. And it works the other way too. I never show up to "look" at something without cash hidden in my truck somewhere.

 

Some guys don't like to be backed into a corner where it appears they have the low hand. Make it positive and charm the guy. I bet he'll come around.

[Rusty Dawg]

12 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Seriously though, cash talks. Wave actual dollar bills in his face and get the job done. As far as his other offer, don't even bring it up. If it was real, he already knows. If it was bullshit, then you've called his bluff and it might set him off.

 

I have a strict policy of not taking "offers" on anything unless I see the bills. And it works the other way too. I never show up to "look" at something without cash hidden in my truck somewhere.

 

Some guys don't like to be backed into a corner where it appears they have the low hand. Make it positive and charm the guy. I bet he'll come around.

I'm with you 100%, but this dude seems to only want to talk over the phone.  This truck sits next to the property for sale(that looks like a junkyard), in the middle of nowhere.  He just hasn't been easy to connect with to do as you mention.  He was very polite, but unfortunately he seems to think that what he has is a truck bound for Barrett Jackson 2023.  I plan to drop by his place in a few days to see if I can catch him in person.  He doesn't need to know I am the person that called him today after all.  BTW, I was voted "Mr. Charming" in high school....bahahahahaha!

[320 Newb]

Wishing you luck! Keep us updated.

 

[datzenmike]

Do both the E1 and the E have intake and exhaust bolted together?

[wayno]

It appears so Mike, that is the first manifold I have seen with a single barrel carb, I suspect that the E block intake/exhaust? was used on the J13 when the E block was replaced with the J13, but that is a guess, I would be interested in Rusty Dawg telling us if the exhaust manifold points straight down or if it is pointed back slightly like the J13, I suspect it is pointed straight down which tells me it is the E block intake/exhaust which makes sense as the old E block exhaust could be used instead of having to have a new exhaust system made for the J13 exhaust manifold.

 

My early intake on my 1962 Datsun U320 has a dual barrel manifold but I suspect they used E block type freeze plugs, the block and VIN tag do say E1, and the engine numbers match the VIN tag also.

Edited February 3, 2022 by wayno

[Datsunscott]

Looks like std E1 exhaust to me.

Some early E engines did have a single barrel intake, Possibly the Spl212 and early 220 trucks.

Also Nash Metropolitan.   Possibly some forklift. I do know some forklift carbs came with only a primary barrel operational, but those still mount on a "2 barrel" std manifold.

I know because I ended up with one!

I don't believe a single barrel was offered on the 320 series trucks.

 

There is a good chance the smoking is valve guides and no functional valve stem seals.The head is easy to pull.

I actually have mine off right now and going to disassemble and check the guides.

There are alternate "modern" valve stem seals out there and I intend to try some as I get smoke from oil running down the stems on shutdown. Also after deceleration.

Sometimes its rings and a quickie hone and rering can help-  if you don't want to go full bore on a rebuild. pun intended.

 

You have gotten some great suggestion on a intake and J15 carb and you would feel the difference.

 

PS What is your hitachi problem?  Sometimes ignition problems can seem like carb problems.

Also once upon a time I ran a small universal air filter and it never ran right with the little filter.

 

[Rusty Dawg]

3 hours ago, Datsunscott said:

Looks like std E1 exhaust to me.

Some early E engines did have a single barrel intake, Possibly the Spl212 and early 220 trucks.

Also Nash Metropolitan.   Possibly some forklift. I do know some forklift carbs came with only a primary barrel operational, but those still mount on a "2 barrel" std manifold.

I know because I ended up with one!

I don't believe a single barrel was offered on the 320 series trucks.

 

There is a good chance the smoking is valve guides and no functional valve stem seals.The head is easy to pull.

I actually have mine off right now and going to disassemble and check the guides.

There are alternate "modern" valve stem seals out there and I intend to try some as I get smoke from oil running down the stems on shutdown. Also after deceleration.

Sometimes its rings and a quickie hone and rering can help-  if you don't want to go full bore on a rebuild. pun intended.

 

You have gotten some great suggestion on a intake and J15 carb and you would feel the difference.

 

PS What is your hitachi problem?  Sometimes ignition problems can seem like carb problems.

Also once upon a time I ran a small universal air filter and it never ran right with the little filter.

 

I will get a photo of the exhaust this evening.  

 

The head on my truck was rebuilt just a year ago by Hanford Auto Supply, so it should be solid.  I wonder if having the head gone thru completely might have increased the pressure in the combustion chamber and thus more smoke.  Anyhow, I am thinking of rebuilding an extra J13 I have and replacing or simply pulling the pistons out and re-ringing them.

 

My Hitachi carb had the bowl stick a few times recently and fuel dumped out of the overflow.  It was due to what I now think was our crap fuel.  I took the top off to clean out with carb cleaner, but I pinched the plunger when I went to put it back together and although I finally was able to get it closed up, I think there is a tear in that plunger since fuel is now leaking up the top of the carb.  I hope someone that works of carbs locally can make one up for me instead of having to send it off again to the guy I use down in Los Angeles.

[datzenmike]

What size displacement for E and E1???? If 1,000cc a two barrel isn't really needed and why they ran single. Even a 1,200 might not need it. Not saying don't do it just this is what Nissan was thinking at the time.. simpler, easier, cheaper, less parts and less to go wrong.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I bought a cheap single barrel VW carburetor for my forklift because I didn't want to spend the $1600 for a replacement. Bought it online from Empi for about $80. I bet a VW carb would work well on the small motor. Probably bolt up too.

[difrangia]

 

3 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

I bought a cheap single barrel VW carburetor for my forklift because I didn't want to spend the $1600 for a replacement. Bought it online from Empi for about $80. I bet a VW carb would work well on the small motor. Probably bolt up too.

 

About a 30PICT Solex from a 40HP or 1300 VW (1961-66) should be about right. They have a 6volt electric choke that can accept the 1967 & newer 12V element too. This is the bottom of the 30mm Solex. There is an adapter plate on this carb for the 1600cc VW engine. The distance between the mounting holes on the carb is 2.090 . 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by difrangia

[Rusty Dawg]

8 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

I bought a cheap single barrel VW carburetor for my forklift because I didn't want to spend the $1600 for a replacement. Bought it online from Empi for about $80. I bet a VW carb would work well on the small motor. Probably bolt up too.

A local carb repairman told me this exact thing.  He mentioned that it would bolt up to my manifold, but the linkage would have to be modified to work.

[Rusty Dawg]

7 hours ago, difrangia said:

 

 

About a 30PICT Solex from a 40HP or 1300 VW (1961-66) should be about right. They have a 6volt electric choke that can accept the 1967 & newer 12V element too. This is the bottom of the 30mm Solex. There is an adapter plate on this carb for the 1600cc VW engine. The distance between the mounting holes on the carb is 2.090 . 

 

 

Oh ya, he mentioned the electric choke too which would be nice.

[Rusty Dawg]

20 hours ago, wayno said:

It appears so Mike, that is the first manifold I have seen with a single barrel carb, I suspect that the E block intake/exhaust? was used on the J13 when the E block was replaced with the J13, but that is a guess, I would be interested in Rusty Dawg telling us if the exhaust manifold points straight down or if it is pointed back slightly like the J13, I suspect it is pointed straight down which tells me it is the E block intake/exhaust which makes sense as the old E block exhaust could be used instead of having to have a new exhaust system made for the J13 exhaust manifold.

 

My early intake on my 1962 Datsun U320 has a dual barrel manifold but I suspect they used E block type freeze plugs, the block and VIN tag do say E1, and the engine numbers match the VIN tag also.

Exhaust manifold is in fact straight.  As you mentioned, when the original E engine crapped out, the PO left everything in place and just swapped out the engine block. Even the starter on this truck is the original since only one hole lines up and a bracket was built to bolt down the other side.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Rusty Dawg

[wayno]

It was an educated guess, I would not have guessed that if it had the 2 barrel intake, then I would have said it was a J13 intake/exhaust.

 

My guess the reason your engine smokes is because of the rebuilt head, I have heard that a rebuilt head on an older engine under deceleration/compression will suck oil thru the rings and cause it to smoke, especially when you get to the bottom and press on the gas pedal.

It does not sound right to me saying "under compression", when the vehicle is going down a hill and you let off the gas pedal the vehicle slows down from the vacuum created when the piston is being "pulled" down when the valves are closed instead of pushed down, I am glitching on the term used for this because "under compression" does not sound right, normally when the piston is being "pulled" down the intake valve is open.

 

I searched it and the word is "decompression" which does not sound right to me either. 😞

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by wayno

[Datsunscott]

When doe the smoke occur? Is it more on a cold startup after sitting? A rebuilt head may not have new guide or upgraded valve stem seals.

 

When the head was rebuilt were new guides put in or were the guides knurled which leaves a circular "screw like" oil path in them?

It is possible the head was rebuilt with the original style valve stem seals which are basically useless o-ring style valve stem seals that would come in a head gasket kit.

Sometime the oring style are left out or put on the stem below the retainer in the wrong place. They dont do much but are better than nothing.

"period correct" valve stem seals are very inefficient - but who cared about a little smoke back then?

 

You can easily check - just take the valve cover off and look past the springs to see if there are seals that are covering over the top of the guide.

Even so if they were installed before the valves or no valve stem cover was used they could be cut by the valve retainer groove on installation, but likely not the problem.

Post a picture if you want of the seals and we can give you feedback. Most shops do not do a later "full valve stem seal" upgrade unless asked.

A good shop can also backcut the guide top to fit a newer viton or teflon stem seal.

 

I had an overflowing Hitachi because the previous owner had a couple things wrong.

1. The float did not move up and down without touching the sides sometimes  because the little spacer rings on the float mounting pin were missing.

    So it would hang up periodically. And i was not familiar enough with that carb to know the little spacers werer supposed to be in there to center the float.

    Hard to fix what is missing when you dont have a matching carb to compare.

    Driving was enough vibration it would bounce around  and was "OK" ,. But sitting still it would periodically overflow in driveway or at a stop light.

 

2. The needle tip was old and did not seal well so that caused its own fuel level problem.

 

3. Also some of the washers under the needle valve seat were missing- and the float was misadjusted so that let the fuel level rise to high and periodically overflow.

   

All of those issues in one carb! Not too hard once once I figured it out - but it took quite a while to identifu all the issues and now it is working great,

 

 

 

 

[difrangia]

 

The seals on the right are the ones you want. The ones on the left are the ones that I took out of our engine and may have been the originals. You need the compression springs on the valve stems and the cup that presses down over the outside diameter of the top of the valve guide. Stay away from the ones in the middle unless you want to kill mosquitos.

 

[datzenmike]

I think my '64 Dodge slant six had those 'umbrella style' ones in the middle. Half had hardened like wood, split and fallen off.

[Rusty Dawg]

5 hours ago, Datsunscott said:

When doe the smoke occur? Is it more on a cold startup after sitting? A rebuilt head may not have new guide or upgraded valve stem seals.

 

When the head was rebuilt were new guides put in or were the guides knurled which leaves a circular "screw like" oil path in them?

It is possible the head was rebuilt with the original style valve stem seals which are basically useless o-ring style valve stem seals that would come in a head gasket kit.

Sometime the oring style are left out or put on the stem below the retainer in the wrong place. They dont do much but are better than nothing.

"period correct" valve stem seals are very inefficient - but who cared about a little smoke back then?

 

You can easily check - just take the valve cover off and look past the springs to see if there are seals that are covering over the top of the guide.

Even so if they were installed before the valves or no valve stem cover was used they could be cut by the valve retainer groove on installation, but likely not the problem.

Post a picture if you want of the seals and we can give you feedback. Most shops do not do a later "full valve stem seal" upgrade unless asked.

A good shop can also backcut the guide top to fit a newer viton or teflon stem seal.

 

I had an overflowing Hitachi because the previous owner had a couple things wrong.

1. The float did not move up and down without touching the sides sometimes  because the little spacer rings on the float mounting pin were missing.

    So it would hang up periodically. And i was not familiar enough with that carb to know the little spacers werer supposed to be in there to center the float.

    Hard to fix what is missing when you dont have a matching carb to compare.

    Driving was enough vibration it would bounce around  and was "OK" ,. But sitting still it would periodically overflow in driveway or at a stop light.

 

2. The needle tip was old and did not seal well so that caused its own fuel level problem.

 

3. Also some of the washers under the needle valve seat were missing- and the float was misadjusted so that let the fuel level rise to high and periodically overflow.

   

All of those issues in one carb! Not too hard once once I figured it out - but it took quite a while to identifu all the issues and now it is working great,

 

 

 

 

The truck doesn't smoke too bad at first, but once it gets to temp you can see me coming from a mile away.  As for the rebuilt head, I am not certain of what my guy used when rebuilding, although I would say that he is very familiar with my engine as well as the similar MG engines.  I will attempt to get a photo as you requested.

 

I messed around with my carb today and noticed that the float was getting hung up in the down position most of the time.  I adjusted the "stopper" so that it would not go down as far and it works perfectly now.  Unfortunately, I still had to send it off to my carb guy down in LA to replace the pump/plunger that I kinked while re-installing it a few days ago.

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Rusty Dawg

[difrangia]

Dawg,

  Take a look in this interesting historical site on Datsun models. A good amount of data on vintage Datsuns. Kind looks to me like maybe sometime in 1961 model year the carbs were changed from single to two throats. Also gives engine model #'s and data through the years. Some of the late 50's & early 60's engines had Hitachi/Solex carbys. Probably copies of what the German technology was at the time just like the carbs copied from the Britt SU twin carbs. The early Datsun OHV four-cylinder engines were copies of Austin/Morris engines.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20180627105627/http://earlydatsun.com/index.html

`

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I love that page Steve. One of my pipe dreams is to have one of those old big Nissan dually trucks. What an awesome race car hauler it would make. Picture this with a ramp bed and my Sprite on back.

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Stoffregen Motorsports