R1 Carbs (lots of pics)

[slingshot532]

OK so it starts right up on the first crank, no more long craknking. Also I had run on on the old motor, this just shuts right down. I have a air fule meter instaled and it is rich at idle and goes lean as soon as I give it gas at all. my settings are 3 3/4 turns out on the idle mix screws and 2mm main jets. So I will turn the screws down alittle and drill out the jets more and see what happens. I tried driving it and a hose I made from 2 hoses and a piece of pipe to connect them together blew apart at the end of the ally. Then my exhust was too low to get over the hump to get back into my garage. :rofl: I'm not even mad because it runs. I have been so busy I haven't taken any vid or pics, sorry. I promise they are comming.

 

Highly recomend a air fuel meter. The one I have is not wide band but at least I can see what is going on. It is instant so I can tell at each throtle setting what the mix is like. The stuff I see on the internet for tuning says to set the main jet first for WOT, then work with the needle for mid range, then the idle.

 

Ended up relesing the inrichment/choke. still starts and runs good.

[DADZSUN]

OK so it starts right up on the first crank, no more long craknking. Also I had run on on the old motor, this just shuts right down. I have a air fule meter instaled and it is rich at idle and goes lean as soon as I give it gas at all. my settings are 3 3/4 turns out on the idle mix screws and 2mm main jets. So I will turn the screws down alittle and drill out the jets more and see what happens. I tried driving it and a hose I made from 2 hoses and a piece of pipe to connect them together blew apart at the end of the ally. Then my exhust was too low to get over the hump to get back into my garage. :rofl: I'm not even mad because it runs. I have been so busy I haven't taken any vid or pics, sorry. I promise they are comming.

 

Highly recomend a air fuel meter. The one I have is not wide band but at least I can see what is going on. It is instant so I can tell at each throtle setting what the mix is like. The stuff I see on the internet for tuning says to set the main jet first for WOT, then work with the needle for mid range, then the idle.

 

Ended up relesing the inrichment/choke. still starts and runs good.

 

You can also play with the needle clips, in this case I'd raise them so they flow more off idle.

 

I setup my choke lever yesterday. It's the first time I've been able to start the car in the garage and simply drive away. Previously the car had to get pushed out, hood popped, hold the chock open (I used a tie-wrap) and then reverse once the engine was warmed up.

[Cuts metal like mad]

You can also play with the needle clips, in this case I'd raise them so they flow more off idle.

 

raise the needles, lower the clips. Just to be clear.

 

Turning the pilot screws adjusts idle fuel mixture. Raising and lowering the needles, adjusts the off idle mixture. If you can't get the right mixture by changing the clip position, you will need different main jets. If you raise the clip all the way and its still too rich, you need smaller jets. If you lower the clip all the way, and its still too lean, you need bigger main jets.

 

If you REALLY want to get precise, you can use a colortune. Although meant for bikes, it will work on cars with quad bike carbs.

[slingshot532]

Unfortunatly these needles don't have clips. Cali only? I have seen the needles with clips in parts breakdowns. Maybe I buy?

[Drummerboy4as]

When I was rebuilding my set I noticed that the idle jet and the main jet are the same style as the ones in my Mikuni flat slide HSR motorcycle carb. The needle is also very similar with the exception that the R1 carbs just have a spacer and the HSR carb has 5 clip positions.

 

I'll have to compare the two side by side to see how similar they actually are.

 

But for reference Mikuni HSR 42/45/48 idle and main jets fit R1 carbs and all sorts of sizes can be bought from Niche Cycle Supply

 

Edit: just went and had a look, they're nothing alike. For one the R1 needle is 2 1/2" long, the HSR needle is 3 1/4" long. They're similar in style, but that's about it.

[jesusno2]

raise the needles, lower the clips. Just to be clear.

 

Turning the pilot screws adjusts idle fuel mixture. Raising and lowering the needles, adjusts the off idle mixture. If you can't get the right mixture by changing the clip position, you will need different main jets. If you raise the clip all the way and its still too rich, you need smaller jets. If you lower the clip all the way, and its still too lean, you need bigger main jets.

 

If you REALLY want to get precise, you can use a colortune. Although meant for bikes, it will work on cars with quad bike carbs.

 

You HAVE to syncronize carbs and tuning is more than just jetting their is also the slides that aid in tuning also which you cannot change on a stock carb setup, but you can machine them if need be. say for instance you cant put 2 stroke carbs on a 4 stroke and just "jet" them the cut outs on the slides are for different air flow ratios their is also the modifications to the holes in the slides itself that ive drilled open to richen up the mixture quicker right off idle etc etc

[Cuts metal like mad]

You HAVE to syncronize carbs and tuning is more than just jetting their is also the slides that aid in tuning also which you cannot change on a stock carb setup, but you can machine them if need be. say for instance you cant put 2 stroke carbs on a 4 stroke and just "jet" them the cut outs on the slides are for different air flow ratios their is also the modifications to the holes in the slides itself that ive drilled open to richen up the mixture quicker right off idle etc etc

 

Synchronizing has been discussed in this thread. I'm pretty sure these guys aren't building race cars, but rather want something cool for cheap. They need their cars to run reliably. Doing what I said, after syncing, is all it takes to get an engine running well enough for most. If looking for ultimate horsepower... why reinvent the wheel. Use something thats got years of research and known results (won't be cheap).

[Cuts metal like mad]

Oh... yes, you can get aftermarket needles for the R1 carbs. Dynojet should have what you need, but you may find less expensive brands as well. You might even find the oe adjustable ones on ebay used...

[VintageRice]

Part #12 sure looks like a 3 position adjustable needle. (2000 yamaha R1 parts fiche)

 

 

http://www.mrcycles.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=36632&category=Motorcycles&make=YAMAHA&year=2000&fveh=966

 

 

 

Although if they are not you could always shim it to richen it up like this guy.

http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-9r-forum/16108-2000-zx9r-jet-needle-shimming-how.html

 

 

I gotta get my pump hooked up then see what the plugs look like after a good pull and see if I'm lean too. We shall see.

[Drummerboy4as]

I believe what you're seeing is the ribbed portion on the end of the needle that the spring and plastic retainer latch onto to keep the needle attached to the diaphragm.

I have some extra needles at home that I can take a picture of later.

 

Shiming it would likely be your best option if it's needed. I know that shims can be bought for the Kehin CV carbs. I would assume they are similar in size.

[VintageRice]

Started with this pile of goodies today.

 

 

 

Ended with taking the wife for a R1 ka powered Datsun 510 ride!!

 

Got it timed properly, not sure if the FPR is working though, adjusting it seemed to make no difference on the gauge......still puzzled on that one.

 

Got home and parked. Later saw a puddle under the car.......bummer........side freeze plug is leaking. The one by the starter. Thank goodness its not the one on the back. That would result in yaking the trans AGAIN and that sucks.

 

If I could just get the water to stay in this thing I could go do a nice WOT shut down and read the plugs. Will hopefully do that this weekend.

[spudly13]

[slingshot532]

I have run into some bad luck. The first time I took the carbs apart I noticed a little plastic clear epoxy on the carbs where one of the screws goes in. I looked closer and saw a crack, and I thought that it was just a crack and it had been repaired, I tried not to freak out. well today I took them back appart and this happened.

 

 

When I stopped crying enuogh to see, I got out the JB weld and did this. hopfuly the screwdriver dosen't stick.

 

 

This all started with trying to richen up the mixture off idle. I had gotten some new drill bits,2.13mm,2.35 and a 2.44 mm. Turns out when I got my "2mm" bit it was more like 2.5. Sooo... I'll let the jb weld harden and get back to it.

 

Also after reading more on mixtures I found motorcycles going with bigger pilot jets so I drilled mine out a little. We will see if that helps.

[Drummerboy4as]

Slingshot, I've got spare carbs. If that jb weld doesn't work let me know, I'm sure we can figure something out :D

[VintageRice]

I have run into some bad luck. The first time I took the carbs apart I noticed a little plastic clear epoxy on the carbs where one of the screws goes in. I looked closer and saw a crack, and I thought that it was just a crack and it had been repaired, I tried not to freak out. well today I took them back appart and this happened.

 

 

When I stopped crying enuogh to see, I got out the JB weld and did this. hopfuly the screwdriver dosen't stick.

 

 

This all started with trying to richen up the mixture off idle. I had gotten some new drill bits,2.13mm,2.35 and a 2.44 mm. Turns out when I got my "2mm" bit it was more like 2.5. Sooo... I'll let the jb weld harden and get back to it.

 

Also after reading more on mixtures I found motorcycles going with bigger pilot jets so I drilled mine out a little. We will see if that helps.

 

 

SUCKYYYYYYY!!!

[slingshot532]

Slingshot, I've got spare carbs. If that jb weld doesn't work let me know, I'm sure we can figure something out :D

 

Thanks, hopefully this works out.

[Drummerboy4as]

 

Whatcha got there??

[spudly13]

My intake flange! Already got all the runners cut and tached, pics tomorrow

[spudly13]

 

 

[slingshot532]

I found a way to adjust the needles.

 

 

So I got everything back together and started up. With the pilots drilled out it runs very rich. I think I have located new pilots that are a little bigger than stock. I had a small fuel leak from the cracked carb body, so I JB welded it again. If this dosen't work Drummerboy is getting a PM.

 

 

Pic of air fuel meter mounted

 

 

 

[VintageRice]

Nice progress dudes!!

 

 

Spud, holy crap you got that intake made fast. good job!

 

 

 

Slingshot, how do you get the needle out of the diaphram? When i cleaned my carbs I couldn't figure it out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Update for me. I couldnt get that coolant leak (very slow) to stop with silicone so I pulled the intake off. Come to find out it was also slowly seeping into the #1 cyl. Water injection!! lol

 

 

So I used a little JB inside the water neck. It's too tight for the welder and the outside is already too close to the bolts. So hopefully this will seal it up good and I'll be back in business. I really need to get one of those A/F meters. So the narrowband's actually work and tell you lean or rich? Why are the widebands so much better then? to be exact?? I'm good with being slightly on the rich side! saves $200.

[VintageRice]

This was helpful. Kinda already knew but no doubt now.

 

I always heard people say narrowbands were junk. But hey, for under $50 you can see if its lean or rich. I'm sold!

 

 

[VintageRice]

BTW here was a quick cell phone shot of my bay before I pulled the intake. See I got my fuel pump and FPR hookd up. Pretty cool right?? :D

 

[Ratty260z]

Here is a little update on my Honderp, took this picture at 5:30 this morning hoping to have it running this week if not sooner.

 

 

 

 

Also a picture of the header I built out of my old VW J-tubes off a 1600 dp. :D before anyone says anything about headers, I couldn't use the stock manifold with bike carbs because it was literally pumpkin sized and had a hole in the top to meet up to the stock intake, and since nobody makes headers for these anymore I had to make it myself. (yes it has a 2 port exhaust head with exhaust liners, I don't expect much more then the stock 65hp on this beast but it sure sounds nice)

 

[Drummerboy4as]

Vintage, use some needle nose pliers and pull the cream colored plastic deal in the middle of the diaphragm out, under that there will be a small spring, then use the needle nose to pull the needle out.