destruction of america

[angliagt]

On 2/16/2023 at 7:24 PM, paradime said:

 

If our airspace surveillance and radar on an F22 can't tell the difference between a 30' hobby balloon and a 200' large payload balloon we're in serious trouble. Shit our 2023 military budget is $816.7 billion, and we're not even at war. That's two million forty-one thousand seven hundred fifty Sidewinders worth. Tough guy Joe could light one off every 15 seconds for the entire year and not run out. 

 

 

 

     I've wonder why they didn't just use the guns on those jets to shoot them down?

It'd sure be a LOT cheaper than firing a missile.

[datzenmike]

Not as sexy to the public. Maybe they didn't want the evidence to survive.

[Ooph!]

2 hours ago, angliagt said:

     I've wonder why they didn't just use the guns on those jets to shoot them down?

It'd sure be a LOT cheaper than firing a missile.

 

The gun is a close in weapon it may not be useful to fire at a target 10,000 to 20,000 feet higher, the web says its effective range is 2000 feet.

If it was an F22 it has a 20mm gun, firing at 40000 feet to hit a target at 60000 feet those bullets may be up there for a time because less atmosphere and come back who knows where. Have you ever sprayed a garden hose up? it comes down in a shower and so would the projectiles.

[datzenmike]

Was it not over one of the Great Lakes?

[Ooph!]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

Was it not over one of the Great Lakes?

 

No the path was more central US northern Idaho, Montana , South Dakota then across the country Nebraska to South Carolina.

It could have been done at any time till it entered more populated areas but I still don't think the gun was the best option.

Even if it was on target how many 20mm holes would it take to bring it down in a somewhat timely manner, and since its never been done someone would have to guess at trajectory and calculate where all the projectiles would come down.

 

 

[datzenmike]

Look if you took the current world population of 8 billion and and assigned them a one square yard to stand on and packed them all together they would fit on a square just 50.8 miles square. That's 1/10th the area of Los Angeles! It is the same size as Fargo ND. The area of the earth is almost 197 million square miles so every person on earth has just over 40 square miles of space to stand on. Yes, most populations tend to be on the coast, along rivers, towns and villages and arable land but for the most part even in a city the chance of being fit by something falling is pretty remote as most are in doors.

 

Dropping it just off the coast in 50 feet of water allows recovery to be controlled and away from public scrutiny. Another was shot down in one of the Great lakes and another in the Beaufort sea.

 

They have been called spy balloons but have yet to see any evidence to support this. There is zero chance that China would think they could never be discovered and recovered thus making it obvious what the were for. Hell the U2 was flown dozens of times over Russia and so was the SR 71 and lots of other countries so?????? big deal You can do pretty much whatever you can get away with and up to them to prevent it or not. What would a balloon surveil that couldn't be done by Chinese spy satellites already in orbit??? These balloons didn't just show up without notice. They were detected off the coast of China and followed all the way here. They could have been shot down any time but allowed to continue and provide a propaganda coup just like Francis Gary Powers and his U2 being shot down in Russia. There is nothing new under the sun.  

[67_1600]

13 hours ago, angliagt said:

     I've wonder why they didn't just use the guns on those jets to shoot them down?

It'd sure be a LOT cheaper than firing a missile.

Back in the 90s, the Canadian military tried to shoot a weather balloon down using their cannons and it just kept going. Later, the British and Americans tried and it still wouldn't come down immediately - it came down slowly, eventually crashing down in Finland.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/weather-balloon-canada-china-1.6737831

[Ooph!]

3 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

Dropping it just off the coast in 50 feet of water allows recovery to be controlled and away from public scrutiny. Another was shot down in one of the Great lakes and another in the Beaufort sea.

 

They have been called spy balloons but have yet to see any evidence to support this. There is zero chance that China would think they could never be discovered and recovered thus making it obvious what the were for. Hell the U2 was flown dozens of times over Russia and so was the SR 71 and lots of other countries so?????? big deal You can do pretty much whatever you can get away with and up to them to prevent it or not. What would a balloon surveil that couldn't be done by Chinese spy satellites already in orbit??? These balloons didn't just show up without notice. They were detected off the coast of China and followed all the way here. They could have been shot down any time but allowed to continue and provide a propaganda coup just like Francis Gary Powers and his U2 being shot down in Russia. There is nothing new under the sun.  

 

There are things that can be gathered much better than using a Satellite, for one the sensors are closer, they can also monitor lower level signals that don't make it out to the orbit of most satellites of that nature about 30000Km. The admin and military stated measures were taken to preclude its ability to gather Intel, that would then allow them to gather info on those countermeasures.

  There is a treaty called Open Skies that allows overflight for military observation mostly between NATO and the Warsaw pact countries but the US withdrew and because we did the Russians did.

  When probing an enemy all reactions or lack thereof provide information. I would say they found out a lot.

 

[datzenmike]

You can say that again. It was Chicken little in the US.

[Ooph!]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

You can say that again. It was Chicken little in the US.

 

Not how I see it, the people raised a ruckus and the Potatus had to do something to get them off his back even if it was to do what he should have done in secret before anyone had seen it.

[paradime]

We can spin our theories based on speculation and national bias, or accept that China is a hostile country and public is given ZERO intel for obvious reasons. We don't know shit beyond what's been shown, and even then I'm skeptical. That said, a typical hot air balloon is 70ft high, wether balloons are typically much smaller, not 200 ft with a 1,500lb. payload the size of a van. Is it reasonable to assume the balloon's navigation system and data transmission were intercepted and analyzed as it passed over the US? I'm not sure, but would we have the capability to do that as it passed over other countries?

[datzenmike]

 

 

1 hour ago, Ooph! said:

 

Not how I see it, the people raised a ruckus and the Potatus had to do something to get them off his back even if it was to do what he should have done in secret before anyone had seen it.

 

The people did make a ruckus running around like the sky was falling just like Chicken little. This is what the Chinese saw and laughed at. They knew it was coming. If it was a 'spy balloon' then they would have done something over the Pacific. Thus it wasn't a 'spy balloon' or it was a 'spy balloon' of little importance and they ignored it... again to retrieve it as a propaganda coup.

 

44 minutes ago, paradime said:

We can spin our theories based on speculation and national bias, or accept that China is a hostile country and public is given ZERO intel for obvious reasons. We don't know shit beyond what's been shown, and even then I'm skeptical. That said, a typical hot air balloon is 70ft high, wether balloons are typically much smaller, not 200 ft with a 1,500lb. payload the size of a van. Is it reasonable to assume the balloon's navigation system and data transmission were intercepted and analyzed as it passed over the US? I'm not sure, but would we have the capability to do that as it passed over other countries?

 

I don't watch the news so how is it a 1,500 pound payload? Who in control has said this? size is meaningless it implies mass but could be hollow. Other than the NEWS who has said it's a surveillance balloon. Could be collecting weather data. Yes I'm aware China is bad. 

[Thomas Perkins]

What we should of done,just let that balloon keep on flying and see where it ended up.We have no secrets,All counties know our business.Also no where to hide on Earth.Spy vs Spy.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Thomas Perkins

[paradime]

4 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

I don't watch the news so how is it a 1,500 pound payload? Who in control has said this? size is meaningless it implies mass but could be hollow. Other than the NEWS who has said it's a surveillance balloon. Could be collecting weather data. Yes I'm aware China is bad. 

 

Does your intel explain why China is sending 200ft balloons into the stratosphere with hollow boxes under them? At 60K ft they where visible from the ground, AP gave dimensions based on scientific and pentagon sources. Airspace Defense and US military called them "Spy Balloons", and that's why they shot them down. You don't watch, but do you read the news?  guess it could be a Chinese hoax meant to make a fool of the US defense system, or test the American airspace defensive posture. Wether balloon, decoy, or overt sky observation, I'm glad we shot the shit down because China is bad. 

 

As for calculating payload. using Archimedes’ Law Of Buoyancy, a spherical containers of helium 90ft in diameter, at 60K elevation, where the air is very thin, the balloon would have a maximum payload of about 2,700lb. 1,500lb is conservative. The smaller ones over the Yukon were likely in the hundreds of LBS.

 

Either way

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by paradime

[gh0stwerx76]

40 minutes ago, paradime said:

 

Does your intel explain why China is sending 200ft balloons into the stratosphere with hollow boxes under them? At 60K ft they where visible from the ground, AP gave dimensions based on scientific and pentagon sources. Airspace Defense and US military called them "Spy Balloons", and that's why they shot them down. You don't watch, but do you read the news?  guess it could be a Chinese hoax meant to make a fool of the US defense system, or test the American airspace defensive posture. Wether balloon, decoy, or overt sky observation, I'm glad we shot the shit down because China is bad. 

 

As for calculating payload. using Archimedes’ Law Of Buoyancy, a spherical containers of helium 90ft in diameter, at 60K elevation, where the air is very thin, the balloon would have a maximum payload of about 2,700lb. 1,500lb is conservative. The smaller ones over the Yukon were likely in the hundreds of LBS.

 

Either way

 

 

 

 

sounds legit.  China sucks.  Biden is a traitor.  

Edited February 19, 2023 by gh0stwerx76

[datzenmike]

56 minutes ago, paradime said:

 

Does your intel explain why China is sending 200ft balloons into the stratosphere with hollow boxes under them? At 60K ft they where visible from the ground, AP gave dimensions based on scientific and pentagon sources. Airspace Defense and US military called them "Spy Balloons", and that's why they shot them down. You don't watch, but do you read the news?  guess it could be a Chinese hoax meant to make a fool of the US defense system, or test the American airspace defensive posture. Wether balloon, decoy, or overt sky observation, I'm glad we shot the shit down because China is bad. 

 

As for calculating payload. using Archimedes’ Law Of Buoyancy, a spherical containers of helium 90ft in diameter, at 60K elevation, where the air is very thin, the balloon would have a maximum payload of about 2,700lb. 1,500lb is conservative. The smaller ones over the Yukon were likely in the hundreds of LBS.

 

Either way

 

 

No I don't read the news either. I do get something here and some shit filters in no matter what you do or don't do on the internet. It's like a leaky boat. It's unlikely we will ever be told what this phenomena is/was and that info there is, is government controlled. If a 'spy' balloon why let it invade your air space? Oh, you didn't know it was 'spying' until it was in your air space? That's even worse! I'd like to believe that you saw it coming and I'm sure you did. If you did nothing then it was because it wasn't a threat and was a weather monitoring balloon. Now IF, if it turns out that it actually was a 'spy' balloon then your air borders are as porous as your southern border with Mexico.   

[bottomwatcher]

This isn't new. Balloons are everywhere. Like I said I found parts of one but it ain't special. Balloons go up by the hundreds every day and only a fraction are found. I am amazed there isn't more aviation collisions.

https://www.weather.gov/bmx/kidscorner_weatherballoons

[datzenmike]

Ahhhh, spying..... on the weather.

[paradime]

4 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

No I don't read the news either. I do get something here and some shit filters in no matter what you do or don't do on the internet. It's like a leaky boat. It's unlikely we will ever be told what this phenomena is/was and that info there is, is government controlled. If a 'spy' balloon why let it invade your air space? Oh, you didn't know it was 'spying' until it was in your air space? That's even worse! I'd like to believe that you saw it coming and I'm sure you did. If you did nothing then it was because it wasn't a threat and was a weather monitoring balloon. Now IF, if it turns out that it actually was a 'spy' balloon then your air borders are as porous as your southern border with Mexico.   

Shit filters in? You seem to know a great deal about US incompetence, poor defense capabilities, limited intel data transmission collection/interference, and massive 200 ft weather balloons carrying hollow boxes. As up tight paranoid as we are with homeland security, I'm sure it was tracked as soon as it left China and we had a military plan in place long before it passed over Canada's porous  airspace and entered US territory. In fact, the Canadian military announced that the balloon was for surveillance, and stated that the flight path and structural characteristics were not typical for meteorological research.

 

[datzenmike]

I know nothing about and question everything the government says and has said, and the rumors from the media. If it was a 'spy device' and if it was detected off the coast of China why let it go on so long?? invade air space, travel unrestricted across the US and then shoot down? Now that is incompetent, unless it's actually not a 'spy device' at all or you are certain that there is nothing to actually spy on. 

[paradime]

With any military action, secrecy and orchestrated disinformation are a given. Based purely on what's been observed; Shooting down a benign Chinese weather balloon for optics on the world stage seems pretty illogical. Although there was opposing political criticism for delaying military intervention, that's also a given no matter what the scenario. It seems far more logical for NORAD to have taken the precautionary defensive measures they did, monitor and gather intel on the balloon's flight path, data collection capabilities, and how it processed and communicated that data before shooting it down over the NC coast to collect physical intel as they have been observed doing. I do not trust my government or the media that enables their BS, but saying the response was incompetent based on conjecture implies the entire US defense system was caught with it's pants down here, and didn't have the ability to contain the threat. That seems very unlikely even with Sleepy Joe Democrat as Commander In Chief. 

[datzenmike]

It's all conjecture.

 

The reported facts are that it's a spy balloon, (I don't see this) so again if they knew this when it was launched and allowed it to cross the Pacific, and over the continental US unopposed that's the definition of pants down incompetent isn't it??? If they didn't know it was a spy balloon then still pants down incompetent.

 

The other possibility is that they knew long ago the it was anything BUT a threat. Weather balloon, mapping wind currents, magnetic fields w/e that got away or was intended to circle the globe. 

[paradime]

Blind faith one thing, but is it blind skepticism that makes an illogical scenario more possible? Or are you just yanking my fat U.S.A. chain?

[datzenmike]

 

25% yanking your chain.

 

[angliagt]

               I see where Jimmy Carter is in Hospice care,& I'm sorry to hear that.

I thought that he was the worst President in US history,until Obama came along,

Then Biden makes both of them look like geniuses.

           I'll say this about Carter - at lest he did a lot of good things after leaving

office.Can you imagine seeing Obama or Biden building houses?