Vibration above 40MPH - Do I need hub-centric rings for these wheels?

[spddm0n]

I have a vibration that occurs at anything above about 40 MPH.  I had the tires/wheels re-balanced the other day, but this did not help.  I checked out all the drive-line and u-joints, etc. and all seems to be in working order (other than it's hard to tell if the driveshafts are bent or something at low drive speeds while on jack stands).  Nothing is loose or damaged.

 

It occurred to me the other day, while I was putting the tires on, the lug nuts could be the wrong lug nuts for these wheels.

 

The lug nuts are acorn style, but they have a shallow taper to them.  I looked at the lug nuts from Nissan Xterras and they have a bit steeper taper (and longer) and would probably snug the wheels on better.  I installed all the lug nuts from the Xterras, but I still have this vibration.

 

Then, it occurred to me the wheels have larger center bore than the hubs.  

 

 

 

It looks like they are about 4.25" (measurement was tough to get - could be 110mm) and I think the hub bore is 100mm, right?

 

Is anyone using hub-centric rings with their wheels?

 

Any other ideas what could be causing the vibration?

[weldingrod]

I chased one around for days and found it by accident. While checking front end components front end jacked up and one tire just off the ground. When I spun the wheel, it stopped. Turned out to be a small bulge in the tread of the tire. Also, check for a warped brake rotor.

[spddm0n]

Interesting. Good test.

 

Can a wheel/tire be successfully balanced if there is a broken/slipped belt?  

 

Hopefully not a rotor. I don’t feel like taking the hubs all apart again. 🙂

 

I’ll check the tires more closely. 

[datzenmike]

Presumably when the tires were balanced they were inspected for lumps and bumps.

 

 

 

 

Put the spare on and road test it, then rotate the wheels around on at a time till it hopefully goes away.

 

 

[spddm0n]

49 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Presumably when the tires were balanced they were inspected for lumps and bumps.

 

 

 

 

Put the spare on and road test it, then rotate the wheels around on at a time till it hopefully goes away.

 

 

 

Good idea. Assuming it’s only one wheel!  🙂. This truck has come from the deep depths of despair. I’d be surprised if it were only one. 🙂

 

I was going to swap on my Xterra wheels, but the weights on the inside wheel lip hit something on the suspension. 

[Chopper Jim]

It may just be the angle of the photo, but the 3 upper lug holes don't look round.

 

Chopper Jim

[datzenmike]

Rotors don't 'warp' at least not at all near enough to affect the studs and wheel mounting surfaces and cause the rim to wobble. They can have worn high and low spots and the caliper may thump when hard braking but not affect the rim rotation.

 

If you have drums on the back give them a spin while looking. I had a '65 Pontiac with a bad vibration in the front. It was my $150 winter car so I just drove faster or slower around the shaking. When I scrapped the car I took the rims off and there was a huge chunk of the drum missing. About 1 x 3 " of casting more than enough to shake like hell.

[spddm0n]

5 minutes ago, Chopper Jim said:

It may just be the angle of the photo, but the 3 upper lug holes don't look round.

 

Chopper Jim

There are a few holes that aren’t “perfect”. Looks like a previous owner really overtorqued them. Could that be enough to throw off the balance?  Would that show up on the machine when balancing?

[Chopper Jim]

It would not show up on the balancer. What do you mean by overtorqued. When I overtorque the stud usually breaks.

 

Chopper Jim

[datzenmike]

Is the wheel centered by the studs and nuts or is it centered on the hub? 

[Chopper Jim]

datzenmike. I had to go back over his question.His first post said the center of the wheel is larger than the hub. He is centering by the lugs & nuts.

An out of round wheel stud hole won't center. That will cause a real good vibration, just before the studs sheer off. Don't ask how I know.

It was an experience not soon forgotten. 

 

Chopper Jim

[spddm0n]

26 minutes ago, Chopper Jim said:

It would not show up on the balancer. What do you mean by overtorqued. When I overtorque the stud usually breaks.

 

Chopper Jim

Good question. It looks like the steel on the wheel “behind” the lug nuts (when installed) is damaged. At first I thought it was over torqued, but now that you mention it...it could have been due to the lug nuts coming loose and causing damage from the wheel moving around on the studs. One hub had a broken stud too. I suppose it could be that one wheel is damaged. I’ll try swapping the wheels for the spare and see what happens. 

[spddm0n]

32 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Is the wheel centered by the studs and nuts or is it centered on the hub? 

It is centered by the studs and lug nuts. The wheel is about 106mm (or as much as 110mm due to my bad measurements).  The hub appears to be 100mm. I wonder if I can buy hub-centered rings for it?  I have those on my race car. 

[Chopper Jim]

Good luck. Hope that is what it was.

 

Chopper Jim

[weldingrod]

Hotrod's dictionary- overtorqued; verb, to tighten a fastener to the point it damages materials being fastened without breaking the fastener.

[thisismatt]

Wheel balancers center with a cone on the wheel bore.

[spddm0n]

3 hours ago, weldingrod said:

Hotrod's dictionary- overtorqued; verb, to tighten a fastener to the point it damages materials being fastened without breaking the fastener.

Either you break the stud or crush the wheel according to that. 🙂

[spddm0n]

2 hours ago, thisismatt said:

Wheel balancers center with a cone on the wheel bore.

Good Point.  I haven't actually used one.  Makes sense they would not detect a fitment issue then.  Hopefully, that lends confidence to NOT being a bad tire. 🙂

[bottomwatcher]

Any weird tire wear? The only way to check these front ends is to slide under the truck and get your spouse/significant other willingly or unwillingly to turn the wheel back and forth while observing tie rod ends, idle arm and centerlink. Then jack up the front end and check ball joints. Loose front end parts can cause a shimmy 

[spddm0n]

4 hours ago, bottomwatcher said:

Any weird tire wear? The only way to check these front ends is to slide under the truck and get your spouse/significant other willingly or unwillingly to turn the wheel back and forth while observing tie rod ends, idle arm and centerlink. Then jack up the front end and check ball joints. Loose front end parts can cause a shimmy 

No, no weird tread wear.  However, the tread is almost new, though the tires are 4 years old.  It could be something in the steering system.  It does have some play in the steering wheel (hard to test since I work alone most of the time), that can be felt when turning the steering wheel while driving.  I'd say it's not enough to cause this significant shake though.  I swapped the wheels from front to back, and back again, and it feels more significant in the rear in one configuration.  I'm going to try swapping the spare around to each corner (hope it's the same size) and see what happens.

[thisismatt]

Do you know anyone who you could borrow a full set from just for testing?

[banzai510(hainz)]

those rims look on the cheezyside!!!!

put on jacks and then drive it in gear see if it vibrates.

 

 

I have a vibrations a few times on my 521

 

1)Last time was a tie rods wore out bad.

 

2) before that it was a driveline held on by 2 bolts working them selvess loose.

 

remember 521 uses a lot of SAE size blots on body and drive train.. Motor is all metric

[spddm0n]

5 hours ago, thisismatt said:

Do you know anyone who you could borrow a full set from just for testing?

I don't, unfortunately.  I have four sets on my Xterras/Frontier, but they are either too tall or the weights on the inside of the wheels are hitting something.

I have another two sets of Toyota wheels/tires, and the 31x10.50's will fit on the rear, but the lug nuts required for the OEM Toyota wheels are different, and the thread pitch on Toyota studs are 12X1.50 instead of 12X1.25 on the 720.

 

Also, a lot of my wheels/tires laying around are pretty old and likely not balanced well either.  They have been sitting for a few years now. 🙂