L16 Ticking noise after head work

[datzenmike]

'Turning over' sounds like you are trying to start it. Is it running? If yes then it's struggling to keep running. Poor idle (if at all) 

 

Got to assume he has the ignition timed after having it all apart.

 

 

I would guess the cam timing is advanced or retarded a tooth. I would check this first.

 

Set crank to TDC on the #1 cylinder compression stroke. Both cam lobes should be pointing upward. Front or exhaust lobe at 2 o'clock and #2 intake lobe at 10 o'clock as viewed from the front. Turn engine clockwise with the crankshaft bolt to TDC. If you overshoot back engine at lease 1/4 turn and try again. It is essential that the engine only be turned clockwise to the TDC mark. Keep trying even if it takes 6 tries. This is to keep the tension side of the chain tight and give a true timing of the cam.

 

Look through the top hole on the cam sprocket. This is what you should see if the cam is correctly timed...

 

 

To the back is the cam thrust plate. There is a small horizontal etch mark on it. On the back of the cam sprocket is a U or V cut in it. The V should be below the etch mark or just slightly to the right as in the picture. This sprocket is on the #1 hole. Moving it to the next hole moves the V to the right about the width of the etch mark. If the V is wildly to the left or right, probably the cam is out 1 tooth.

[d.p]

yeah it would turn over and idle but not well at all.   I will go to the shop on Monday and have a look at the marks at TDC #1 and see what is what.  

 

FWIW before I took the head off and after I put it all back together that that oblong or u shaped hole on the thrust plate was directly lined up with the V notch on the cam sprocket.  The only difference after was where the #1 pointed on the chain.  Would that have advanced the timing? 

 

This was taken before I took the head off:

 

 

And this was how I put it back together (only difference was where the 1 on the sprocket was pointing--ignore the paint because it rubbed off when I was putting it back together, maybe next time I will just ziptie the sprocket to the chain):

 

 

[Crashtd420]

I remember our earlier conversation about that.... I believe you skipped a tooth when the tensioner popped. Even though you were off on the chain you moved one tooth on both sprockets and all the notches lined up, plus it ran good, so no you were good there...

but now they messed with it. So who know what happened. I hope they would have reset that anyhow when doing the tensioner...

[datzenmike]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These two pictures have properly timed cams.

 

 

As long as you turn clockwise up to TDC and there is no backing up, then the tension side will have no slack in it and the cam can be checked properly. The sprocket number is immaterial. It's just to show where you are and and if you need to move to the next one to adjust for wear. The V and the etch line rule. If they are correct it doesn't matter what number you are on. Nissan provides #2 and #3 for adjustments... if you can't get this arrangement of V to etch line, the chain and/or sprockets are in need of replacement or cam shims needed.

[d.p]

Yeah crash had walked me through when I was putting it back together so its good to know I did that right.

 

If my cam was timed right when I dropped it off then when I go check it tomorrow and the engine is at TDC#1 the following should be true:

 

1. Cam V notch lines up with thrust plate hole on #1 (as it was before)

2. Crank pulley timing pointer pointing at 0 degrees 

3. #1 intake/exhaust lobes pointing to 10 and 2 

 

If those are right then the cam timing should be correct and the problem would then be ignition or something else entirely? 

[datzenmike]

Yeah crash had walked me through when I was putting it back together so its good to know I did that right.

 

If my cam was timed right when I dropped it off then when I go check it tomorrow and the engine is at TDC#1 the following should be true:

 

1. Cam V notch lines up with thrust plate hole on #1 (as it was before) Yes. As long as crank turned only in clockwise direction to set TDC

2. Crank pulley timing pointer pointing at 0 degrees Yes. As long as crank turned only in clockwise direction to set TDC

3. #1 intake/exhaust lobes pointing to 10 and 2 Yes, this indicates compression stroke.

 

If those are right then the cam timing should be correct and the problem would then be ignition or something else entirely? Yes

[racerx]

Wonder if the the oil spindal is out of line too, should be like 11.25 if tdc.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

The very first thing I would do, before I attempt to check or reset the cam timing, is verify TDC ! This is the most important step. Have you done this before? If yes, then I would still check it again. It's a very simple process.

 

Has the engine been apart and built from misc pieces? Has the crank pulley ever been changed? If yes to either of these, assume nothing and verify TDC. If you don't know the answer to either of these, then check TDC.

 

The guys who had (have?) your truck may have assumed TDC was right and gone ahead with the diagnostic and repair without checking it.

 

This is a particular soap box for me because I learned very early on in my Datsun life that there are a few different pulleys and a couple different pointers and if they get mismatched, TDC is not going to be correctly located by the pointer.

 

When faced with a bucket of shit, empty the bucket and start from square one.

[datzenmike]

Engine ran well before the tensioner replacement on these settings. Should run the same after unless something not put back correctly or an unrelated problem just happened.

[d.p]

Yeah who knows where it's at now but I am going to find out tomorrrow. If cam timing is right can the oil spindle cause it to idle so bad?

[Crashtd420]

The oil spindle would in a sense cause a rough idle if they ran out of adjustment on the dizzy and were unable to set the timing correctly....

If they run out of adjust remove the lock down screws and see if you can get the correct timing ... if you can than the oil spindle needs to be reset.... also can pull the dizzy and check it's orientation at top dead center

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Engine ran well before the tensioner replacement on these settings. Should run the same after unless something not put back correctly or an unrelated problem just happened.

I wasn't there Mike, so that's totally open to interpretation.

 

Better to verify things and go on what you know than to assume things and chase your tail.

[datzenmike]

OK. Owners said it ran noticeably worse than before the tensioner was replaced.

[Roadster-ka]

If the shop took off the head to repair the tensioner, they may have set it down on an open valve, bending it.if it's missing now, a compression check should be done.

[d.p]

Mike is spot on, it ran like shit AFTER the shop replaced the tensioner.  

 

No idea if they ever took the head off to replace the tensioner but who the hell knows at this point.  All I know was there weren't any bent valves before I dropped it off so if there is now its on them.

 

The two videos below are of my truck after having the head work done and before taking it to the shop.  First one is the first time I fired it up after putting it back together and the second one is after I changed the oil (next day).    You can hear the chain hitting some part of the tensioner pretty clearly in the second video.  

 

https://flic.kr/p/TFH45h

 

https://flic.kr/p/UKbekf

[flatcat19]

So the moral of this story is that you need to go verify mechanical and ignition timing.

 

 

 

My question...and it will probably ly happen to you again...how did the tensioner pop out in the first place?

 

 

We're you spin in the engine backwards? Did you not tighten the guides?

[racerx]

On may 21, i recommended a compression test, was this done. I understand that the one u had went out, but they are not that expensive. I say do one to eliminate any second guessing, specially if the shop did the head job.

[d.p]

It was may fault. Popped out because the wedge broke and I pulled the wedge before I put the cam sprocket back on.

 

Yeah I did a compression test, 120 across all four ice cold before it shit the bed. Does it make sense to do a compression test before I verify the timing?

[racerx]

U using screw in type of compression tester? When u do compression check, is the engine warm? Are u opening throttle all the way? 120 seems kinda low....

[flatcat19]

Pass on the compression test.

 

 

Get this truck back in your hands and get it back to square one.

 

 

We're beating dead horses until you can actually do anything.

[wayno]

Has anyone on here thought about how long the engine was run without the timing chain tensioner in place, that is a major oil leak.

In my world fluids flow the path of least resistance, with that tensioner out of its hole the oil was free to flow back into the oil pan, why would it go anywhere else?

I have wondered if that could have effected other parts of the engine.

[flatcat19]

It crossed mind. But I think it ran fine then broke.

[datzenmike]

The hole is very small that feeds the tensioner. About the same as the oil jet for the chain or the one up into the head. Here's mine...

 

[d.p]

Ok

 

Went by this morning and they had the truck idling fine but timing was advanced 46 degrees.  They made sure the cam timing was correct but lined it up with #2 on the sprocket instead of #1 but I wasn't able to verify it.  They pulled the dizzy off while I was there and I snapped this pic and a video of it running today.  

 

I was short on time this morning but will be back there later today.  

 

 

https://www.flickr.com/gp/149231725@N05/8sY7KE

[datzenmike]

Distributor look about right.

 

Cam should be on #1 for the L16, but the V to etch mark position governs overall. If not needed to be on #2 the cam will be 'advanced' everything happens slightly sooner. This gives a small increase to the 'bottom end' power, may remove some 'top end'. If the cam is 'retarded' it will do the opposite. It's subtle and you may not even notice this.

 

Best overall cam position is the V groove just under the etch mark or just slightly to the right.