More power for my L series

[jovial_cynic]

I'm running the Z22e block. This has less to do with the bore possibilities, and more to do with stock bore size. The L20b pistons are 85mm across, and the Z22 pistons are 87mm. You start out with more potential displacement on a Z22 than with an L20b.

 

I've got my Z22 block bored out .75mm (I found a good deal on .75mm over pistons, and I had the block bored to match), and have had no problems with it.

 

here's my setup:

 

Bore size: 87.75mm (Z22E bored out .75mm)

Stroke: 86mm (L20b crank)

Headgasket bore: 88mm (that's a guess; I just figure it's gonna be 1mm over the stock bore)

Piston dish volume: -9.32cc (stock Z22e pistons, but they are shaved down a bit, so this might be a little less)

Deck clearance: .2mm over deck (shaved down from .4mm)

Cam: shadbolt (510 lift, 280 duration)

Carbs: twin SUs

Edited October 29, 2008 by jovial_cynic

[datzenmike]

So this is an over bore L20B with 2079cc displacement. Should rev ok with the 20 crank.

[jovial_cynic]

Well, the L20b crank and the Z20 crank have the same stroke (86mm), but the L20b is fully counter weighted, making it more appropriate for high-revving action, I believe.

[HRH]

Interesting, hadn't thought of the wideness issue. I used the 20b crank in my motor instead of the Z20 crank for the same reason, even though the Z22 crank isn't fully counterweighted and most people don't have a problem with them revving high.

[racerx]

Can't do much with ol skool L20b, that's why more and more people are dumping them for KA and SRs and other engines. Either way you are going to spend money and resources. It all depends on what you want the car for. Spending thousands of dollars to get 50 more hp, in my opinion, requires serious thought. You can change the head and carb set-up (sidedrafts), thats money already and rework the head...give it some thought. Just try to avoid what most overly enthuasiastic people do by building up their L20bs and later on selling them for like 50% of what they put in and then installa KA motor. In other words, measure 3X and cut once, rather than cut 3X and measure once.

 

Here's a good example, I have a 510 and my L16 went out..did some serious thinking from KA, SR to small V-8 and finally decided to buy a remanufactured L18 for like $800 with shipping included and no core requirement, because I just wanted a daily driver at the end. Now if the Datsun was a shell and I had to start from the get go, I would chose an SR motor v.s. an L series. Don't get me wrong an L16-L20 engines are solid and easy to maintain but eventually parts for these cars will be extinct and there are a lot of Sr motors lying around at your local junkyard, Craigslist and so on. When you change the engine you will also need to change your exhaust, mo money, supsension, mo money and brakes, mo money....you see it becomes or morphs into a project that builds on itself and as soon as you know it you will have spent like $10K on your car that still needs a paintjob and interior. You get it...then after awhile you get tired of your "project" and you decide to sell on Craigslist and thei is wht you will typically read, "my lost and your gain, ran out of money and patience".

 

So think about it first, in other words where's this decision going to lead me. Unless of course you have tons of money then that another story.

[jovial_cynic]

Interesting, hadn't thought of the wideness issue. I used the 20b crank in my motor instead of the Z20 crank for the same reason, even though the Z22 crank isn't fully counterweighted and most people don't have a problem with them revving high.

 

Um... the Z22 crank has a stroke of 92mm, which seems quite a bit more than the 86mm of the L20b/Z20. The Z22 crank would lean more towards a low-end power application. Without full counterweights, plus a longer stroke, I'd think that it'd be less ideal for high revs than the L20b crank.

[hang_510]

...used a Z22 block as opposed to the 20B block due to the problem of boring into water passages.

 

nope! my decision was forced from 4 cracked L20b blocks :cursing:

 

 

 

Z22e block & crank/L20 rods/forged JE 88.5mm(less dish than stock)/U67 ported-bigger valves/isky .480 cam

0.5mm below deck, 9.6:1

 

sacraficed in places to make it steetable on pump gas

[510er]

I dont understand why people think pulling more ponys out of an L series cost so much money!???

AN SR is going to cost you an arm AND leg $1800-2400 just for the motor, now you need to mount it get an IC and brakes

 

MY L SERIES 3 free blocks. 200 dollars for a reground crank and complete bearing set. 25 dollars for z22 .060 over piston and ring set. 65.00 gasket set. 100 for an oil pump 100 for a new timing set. 350 for the block to be bored over and the head milled to match up 300 for dual mikuni and intake.

Im in this engine less than a thousand bucks i guess you have to factor in the new plugs wires and time but still thats pretty dang cheap!

it should be a good streetable motor and you wouldnt have to change anything else about the car if you didnt want to.

[510er]

nope! my decision was forced from 4 cracked L20b blocks :cursing:

 

 

 

Z22e block & crank/L20 rods/forged JE 88.5mm(less dish than stock)/U67 ported-bigger valves/isky .480 cam

0.5mm below deck, 9.6:1

 

sacraficed in places to make it steetable on pump gas

 

Which years block were you having so much trouble with? I have a newer one and an older one. both look solid before being dipped though...

[slodat]

I dont understand why people think pulling more ponys out of an L series cost so much money!???

 

 

 

Yea, and it will be 100 or so at the wheels. Real power out of an L series. "Real power" defined as > 140whp, costs "real" money. I have well over 2k in my "L" motor and I bought it assembled. My air cleaner cost $200!!

 

Cheap and power don't go in the same sentence or conversation.

 

You won't get SR20DET power out of ANY 4 cylinder L series for less money than an SR20 swap. Won't happen.

[slodat]

Which years block were you having so much trouble with? I have a newer one and an older one. both look solid before being dipped though...

 

When rebuilding one, L20b blocks are notorious for having cracks at the head bolt locations into the water jacket.

[racerx]

here check this out, perhaps this can help settle an old age argument about which engine:

 

http://dimequarterly.tierranet.com/

 

Other things to consider is one's mechanical/fabrication ability, place to work on, tools, patience and of course MONEY!

[racerx]

Oops click under ENGINE section on the left side...

[510er]

Yea, and it will be 100 or so at the wheels. Real power out of an L series. "Real power" defined as > 140whp, costs "real" money. I have well over 2k in my "L" motor and I bought it assembled. My air cleaner cost $200!!

 

Cheap and power don't go in the same sentence or conversation.

 

You won't get SR20DET power out of ANY 4 cylinder L series for less money than an SR20 swap. Won't happen.

 

a stock L20b had what 96 horsepower? putting bigger pistons and stroking it you cant come out with less and you say 100? im thinking around 130 maybe a bit more... At the wheels not sure what ill get but it will be enough to have some fun in.

[slodat]

a stock L20b had what 96 horsepower? putting bigger pistons and stroking it you cant come out with less and you say 100? im thinking around 130 maybe a bit more... At the wheels not sure what ill get but it will be enough to have some fun in.

 

I don't care about crank horsepower. What matters is what is at the tire.

 

I have a pretty well built L series engine. I have not put it on a dyno. I do plan to. I seriously doubt it is over 115whp. And it has a cam with a lot of overlap (Motorsports #3 cam), big valves, a lot of head work, 2.25" exhaust, long rods and >10:1 compression. With that said, it is a fucking blast to drive and will get me into plenty of trouble if I want it to. That is still just over HALF of what a stock SR20DET swap puts to the wheel.

[510er]

I don't care about crank horsepower. What matters is what is at the tire.

 

I have a pretty well built L series engine. I have not put it on a dyno. I do plan to. I seriously doubt it is over 115whp. And it has a cam with a lot of overlap (Motorsports #3 cam), big valves, a lot of head work, 2.25" exhaust, long rods and >10:1 compression. With that said, it is a fucking blast to drive and will get me into plenty of trouble if I want it to. That is still just over HALF of what a stock SR20DET swap puts to the wheel.

 

Yea but no matter how much head work you do that is all upper end power anyway... with that aside im not sure why this keeps going back to the SR??? I basicly agreed with you that the SR is going to be an ass ton of time and money and the L is cheaper and more fun and nostalgic in my opinion.

[slodat]

My point is there is no such thing as cheap power in an L series engine!

[510er]

My point is there is no such thing as cheap power in an L series engine!

 

okay i can agree with that. But in comparison to other options I think it is cheap, by comparison only.

[datzenmike]

Weather you use the Z22 block with L20B head or over bore an L20B block and put Z22 internals in it.... you have made very basically, an L22B motor or you could call it a stroker motor if you want. If the L20B is 96hp then a 10% displacement should net you a 10% increase in hp too... so 106hp lets say. If you add some cam I don't see why you couldn't get another 15hp and if multiple carbs are added maybe another 10hp.

 

BTW the Z20 crankshaft IS fully counter weighted because L20B cranks were used. I have a Z20 crank and it even has the U60 stamped in the last throw. My other Z20 crank (gone now) was the same. The Z22/24 were not fully counter weighted for sure.

 

 

A guy on the Realm has this motor in his 510. It's an LZ22 with a cam and some porting and though it running EFI for this run it was making just over 130 RWHP last year with twin side drafts.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/DynoRun2007ByronsLZ22.jpg[/img]"]

Edited October 29, 2008 by datzenmike

[slodat]

okay i can agree with that. But in comparison to other options I think it is cheap, by comparison only.

 

You're not saying much in that statement!

 

What are you comparing it to? How is it cheaper?

[510er]

You're not saying much in that statement!

 

What are you comparing it to? How is it cheaper?

 

Comparing it so swaping in a SR or a KA or just plain rebuilding your engine

on the terms of going from a non running car to a running car L series is cheaper

[slodat]

Comparing it so swaping in a SR or a KA or just plain rebuilding your engine on the terms of going from a non running car to a running car L series is cheaper

 

The question wasn't "how do I get my non running car, running on the cheap"!!

 

Your original post:

I'm currently running an l16 with an a87 head, 32/36 weber, and a 200sx 5 speed. Compression is 8.6:1. It gets good torque, but above 5k its out of breath. If im looking for maybe 130 hp at the crank, what are some viable options for more performance? can i use my head with a z22 block? What about forced induction??

I know you guys have answered this question a thousand times; im just trying to get started in the right direction the first time.

Thanks!

[racerx]

a stock L20b had what 96 horsepower? putting bigger pistons and stroking it you cant come out with less and you say 100? im thinking around 130 maybe a bit more... At the wheels not sure what ill get but it will be enough to have some fun in.

 

 

yes hard to believe for some of us that our L series engine did not produce that much. so let's assume that you want to build that engine to produce 130 hp, which is about 30% more. So if you spend about $1,000 (min.) that's like $333/hp..and like what Heinz said how much money you got then we can talk about what you are able to do. The guy has a 32/36 weber and I am certain that he would want sidedrafts, which means newer carbs and intakes, mo money.

 

I know that feeling of getting excited and emotional about building an engine so that you can get that "desired" power but it is best to think with your head first than with your heart.

[Bleach]

Comparing it so swaping in a SR or a KA or just plain rebuilding your engine

on the terms of going from a non running car to a running car L series is cheaper

If you compare the engine swaps then you have to consider horsepower too.

SR20DEt is the most expensive but is over 200hp right from the start.

 

200hp

SR20DET - $2000

KA24DE - $2500 with non-turbo upgraded parts to reach 200hp

L20b - $8,000 roughly... would have to be turbo. Non-turbo L20b at that level would be ridiculous $$$

 

150hp

SR20DET - $2000 and over 150hp

KA24DE - $100-600 and is 150hp stock. Just depends how cheap you can find the engine

L20b - $2000+ turbo or NA would both be expensive

 

If you're just looking for a peppy car that runs, then throw in a 5-speed, low geared rearend, and a single downdraft Weber.

[Fineline]

If you compare the engine swaps then you have to consider horsepower too.

SR20DEt is the most expensive but is over 200hp right from the start.

 

200hp

SR20DET - $2000

KA24DE - $2500 with non-turbo upgraded parts to reach 200hp

L20b - $8,000 roughly... would have to be turbo. Non-turbo L20b at that level would be ridiculous $$$

 

150hp

SR20DET - $2000 and over 150hp

KA24DE - $100-600 and is 150hp stock. Just depends how cheap you can find the engine

L20b - $2000+ turbo or NA would both be expensive

 

If you're just looking for a peppy car that runs, then throw in a 5-speed, low geared rearend, and a single downdraft Weber.

 

 

I agree. I dont have nearly $8000 into my L20 but I definately have more than the sr20 would cost. To make a fair comparison you have to consider how much its going to cost to have someone fab you the mounts and do the wiring to make the sr and ka fit. My L20 bolted in but I also did ALL of the fab and wiring work. I shudder to think of how much it would have cost if I had someone do it.

I have heard rumors that someones sr powered 521 cost in the neighborhood of $12,000.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Fineline