slodat Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 A very reputable shop I know of will do an SR20DET swap into a 510 for $6500, as a point of reference. When talking to him about doing the SR swap into my 521 the price is similar. That is a "basic" swap. No major upgrades, inline fuel pump, painted steel charge piping, etc. I would build a turbo or supercharged L series for the fun of doing it. Not because it is cheap. Quote Link to comment
510er Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 OKAY THIS IS GETTING OUT OF HAND!:fu::fu::fu::fu::fu: I AM NOT THE ORIGIONATOR OF THIS thread!! Slodat you are quoting me... and some other GUY Quote: Originally Posted by 510er Comparing it so swaping in a SR or a KA or just plain rebuilding your engine on the terms of going from a non running car to a running car L series is cheaper The question wasn't "how do I get my non running car, running on the cheap"!! Your original post: Quote: Originally Posted by Five10er I'm currently running an l16 with an a87 head, 32/36 weber, and a 200sx 5 speed. Compression is 8.6:1. It gets good torque, but above 5k its out of breath. If im looking for maybe 130 hp at the crank, what are some viable options for more performance? can i use my head with a z22 block? What about forced induction?? I know you guys have answered this question a thousand times; im just trying to get started in the right direction the first time. Thanks! Shit i didnt want this to turn into a pissing match! All that im saying is that for the money effort time and whatever else you want to throw into the equation i FEEL that the L is the best bet BLEACH- I would be very impressed if you can put an SR20 into a 510 for 2k yes an SR is 200 hp to start but you cant just bolt it in and go there is alot of modification to be done so that your going to be sitting at 10k with an SR anyway! Quote Link to comment
racerx Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 five10er, here's another forum which discusses engines swaps: http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/156800 What you are going through, I went through..and it's all going to boil down to how you want the car to be and how much you got to spend. People will always stick to their guns because, obviously they will be biased. Like Ford and Chevy owners or Datsun or Toyota owners. They will swear up and down that theirs is better since slice bread but it at the end you are the one that has to sweat, pay, get headaches and so on. Ultimately it's up to you. I posted the nico site so that you can see what others are doing and you can see how people can get attached to their beliefs. Put it this way I have a 65 Mustang Shelby/Fastback replica and if I show up to s Ford show with my Datsun, people, my buddies, will tear me apart and similar to showing up to a Datsun meet and I show up with my 75 Celica, they, too will tear me apart and that's because some people gets so emotionally invested in what they believe that their view becomes myopic. Here is a suggestion that I tell my clients, I am career counselor by trade, do an assessment of what you are capable of, invest some time in evaluating the pros and cons of L motpr, KA, SR, force induction and so on. Make a list of factors, like cost, difficulties you will encounter, pay offs - like HP, what else would you need to change (i.e. brakes, suspension, etc.) and in the end do a price comparison. Good luck... Quote Link to comment
Jason Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Weather you use the Z22 block with L20B head or over bore an L20B block and put Z22 internals in it.... you have made very basically, an L22B motor or you could call it a stroker motor if you want. If the L20B is 96hp then a 10% displacement should net you a 10% increase in hp too... so 106hp lets say. If you add some cam I don't see why you couldn't get another 15hp and if multiple carbs are added maybe another 10hp. BTW the Z20 crankshaft IS fully counter weighted because L20B cranks were used. I have a Z20 crank and it even has the U60 stamped in the last throw. My other Z20 crank (gone now) was the same. The Z22/24 were not fully counter weighted for sure. A guy on the Realm has this motor in his 510. It's an LZ22 with a cam and some porting and though it running EFI for this run it was making just over 130 RWHP last year with twin side drafts. http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q251/datzenmike/DynoRun2007ByronsLZ22.jpg[/img]"] Byron has a lot of money into the head of that motor Mike. More than some guys SR20DET swaps in fact. In it's previous incarnation the year before with dual 44mm mikunis and a .507 lift cam and ported head it made 133whp compared to the 138whp he has with the new head, cam, efi and engine management. Point of the changeover was to get the engine up to snuff for turbocharging which is a balanced bottom end and pistons as well as the other trick stuff. By the time he's done he'll have spent more than 99% of the people on their SR20DET swaps and for about the same power I'd say. Not inexpensive by any means, but, very satisfying for him. I anticipate making about 115whp out of a more modest LZ22 build, but, I'll have fun doing it. Quote Link to comment
Five10er Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Would it be more than marginally unsafe to run a ka and keep my stock brakes (with 280z rear drums!:))? Thanks again Levi Quote Link to comment
Five10er Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I just realized I completely stole your name 510er... sorry about that. Levi Quote Link to comment
510er Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I just realized I completely stole your name 510er... sorry about that. Levi NAME THEIF! :fu: now everyone has us confused!... its all good man i unintentionally jacked your thread! :lol::lol: Quote Link to comment
5ten-er Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 NAME THEIF! :fu: :fu:That was my name on the510realm 2 years ago:fu: It WAS original :cool: Quote Link to comment
510er Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 years ago smears ago :fu: and fuck now there are 3 of us!:fu: we should all use matching profile pics :eek::lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment
Jason Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Well, brake upgrades and suspension upgrades should come before an engine upgrade. Quote Link to comment
Five10er Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Sweet another one! Lets start a gang. Brakes before engine is, of course, the safe and intelligent thing to do, your right. My lame excuse is, how much more braking do i need if mine can brake my tires loose? Levi Quote Link to comment
Jason Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 It ain't the going that hurts, it's the sudden stops, specially if they're uncontrolled ;)! Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Um... the Z22 crank has a stroke of 92mm, which seems quite a bit more than the 86mm of the L20b/Z20. The Z22 crank would lean more towards a low-end power application. Without full counterweights, plus a longer stroke, I'd think that it'd be less ideal for high revs than the L20b crank. If you can track down the late response, I meant with the fully counterweighted, not the wideness of the piston. And yes, the Z22 crank offers more torque than the 86mm throw of the regular 20B, but it doesn't make a bit of difference to a healthy L motor. They'll both rev to 7500 if you want. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Byron has a lot of money into the head of that motor Mike. More than some guys SR20DET swaps in fact. In it's previous incarnation the year before with dual 44mm mikunis and a .507 lift cam and ported head it made 133whp compared to the 138whp he has with the new head, cam, efi and engine management. Point of the changeover was to get the engine up to snuff for turbocharging which is a balanced bottom end and pistons as well as the other trick stuff. By the time he's done he'll have spent more than 99% of the people on their SR20DET swaps and for about the same power I'd say. Not inexpensive by any means, but, very satisfying for him. I anticipate making about 115whp out of a more modest LZ22 build, but, I'll have fun doing it. Understood Jason. Just showing what's possible with an LZ22. The one I was estimating wasn't RWHP like his. His has to be 20-25 hp higher than just L22/cam/side drafts will do. Quote Link to comment
Jason Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 No problems Mike, I thought I'd just make the point that getting there wasn't inexpensive. In fact, if you look through the post where you got that dyno sheet from there are 2 other LZ powered cars that ran that day, Malcom's with 185+whp FI and N/A and Jamie's with 190+whp, NA, carbed. Pretty impressive engines. Quote Link to comment
racerx Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Okay so how much for that build up where: 130 HP 180 HP 190 HP Quote Link to comment
Jason Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 If you pay a shop for the work, 130whp would cost in the order of $6000 for a complete engine with the carbs. You can double it for the others and then some. Quote Link to comment
HRH Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Of course, we are probably talking near full race engines, aren't we? Probably about 1000k of usable rpm? Quote Link to comment
510rob Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Here is a link to Malcolm's car with the ~190RWHP L24B engine. It is a race motor in a race car. The intake is a pair of TWM 48mm throttles, hence the sound. The cam is ~0.600" lift, requiring valve springs that last about 10 hours between replacement or something unstreetable like that... It sure sounds good though! http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk-Ny0RrnUs http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=RDYSS9bMSOo&feature=related Quote Link to comment
racerx Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Well, brake upgrades and suspension upgrades should come before an engine upgrade.. EXACTLY! that's what I been saying when you mod your engine to the point that the HP is too much for our stock rinky dink brakes, it would make sense to upgrade the brakes and suspension. That's why when people say that they spent only $1,000 to mod their engine, you should count the cost that goes along with that. It's like remodeling your house, you will eventually buy new furnitures, carpets, paint, plumbing, electrical, etc. That's why whenever you do mod or swap your engine, you need to do an assessment and a budget. And speaking of budgets, this is the reason why we are in mess with our economy. People spend more than they can trully afford. For example, like the car, take money out of your house or borrow. Oh yeh, forgot to mention that the rear end should be change to max. that HP, people will usually go with LSD (subaru). In a nutshell, you can't penny and dime a project, it will usually catch up to you since once you build, that tends to create more issues and then you build some more..get it, means more money. So if someone wants 20 hp, just change the carb and get header and exhaust and change the distributor to pointless. If you want more than this, it will mo and mo money. Quote Link to comment
racerx Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Here's more info..yeh, I know it's for a Ford but check out #4..it clearly states besides plans for engine is BUDGET. http://www.fordcobraengines.com/faq.htm#Which%20Engine%20Combination%20is%20right%20for%20my%20Vehicle? RacerX Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Jason Remember Byrons car had like a 4.38 gear ratio to get that 133/138hp rating. If he had a 3.7 Subie I bet it would be alot lower unless he runs it in 2nd gear. Quote Link to comment
Sealik Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Here is a link to Malcolm's car with the ~190RWHP L24B engine. It is a race motor in a race car. The intake is a pair of TWM 48mm throttles, hence the sound. The cam is ~0.600" lift, requiring valve springs that last about 10 hours between replacement or something unstreetable like that... It sure sounds good though! http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk-Ny0RrnUs http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=RDYSS9bMSOo&feature=related Like the video....LZ24 chasing down the Beemer :D Quote Link to comment
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