mainer311 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Crashtd420 said: And I finally put that alternator in last night.... fit just like you said, thanks... Great! No problem. 1 Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, d.p said: Got a link or part #s for the alt and the correct belt? Remy 14118 from RockAuto. It's technically a high output alternator for a 510. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=37404&jsn=2 Edited July 10, 2018 by mainer311 2 Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Crashtd420 said: So I go out back to check voltage at the battery and there is my positive battery cable just dangling... ? oops.... Hahaha. My other guess was a bad VR, but this problem is a lot cheaper to fix. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted July 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, d.p said: Got a link or part #s for the alt and the correct belt? I'll check the part numbers later for you... the alternator was a 60amp for a 510... mainer311 posted it here i think on the last page.... The belt I know was a gates 7355, I had a 7360 on the old altenator... that will possibly work with the stock radiator but I'm not sure of that... 2 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted July 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 Ya it helps to have this connected.. But the starter is definitely an issue... Reconnected the power and everything worked like it should.. except the starter... gave it a tap with a hammer truck fired right up.... damn autozone starter.... I'll probably buy something better and new and warranty the autozone one as a back up... I was wondering something... How much does the compression ratio of the engine effect the starter... if a stock L16 was 8.5 to 1 vs the 10.7 to 1 I'm at now would I need a stronger starter? Any recommendations? 1 Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) Do they make a gear reduction starter for the L series? It's a popular "mod" on the roadsters to put forklift gear reduction starters in for a lot more torque. Stock belt length won't work. The belt length that worked for me was a 15385. Edited July 10, 2018 by mainer311 1 Quote Link to comment
mrbigtanker Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 Troy Ermish makesa really nice starter for the L series. There about 225.00 but worth it. I have one in both my wagon and truck. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted July 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 19 minutes ago, mrbigtanker said: Troy Ermish makesa really nice starter for the L series. There about 225.00 but worth it. I have one in both my wagon and truck. Wow prices went up... listed for $289 right now, but it is the only one that says it's new. .. I've seen a couple other gear reduction starts around 225 but they are remans.... Sounds like I will warranty what I have and be saving up for Christmas ... 1 Quote Link to comment
Charlie69 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 In 1978 the Datsun 280Z had a gear reduction starter. These are inline 6 cylinder L motors. https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/nissan,1978,280z,2.8l+l6,1209260,electrical,starter+motor,4152 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 hour ago, mainer311 said: Do they make a gear reduction starter for the L series? It's a popular "mod" on the roadsters to put forklift gear reduction starters in for a lot more torque. Stock belt length won't work. The belt length that worked for me was a 15385. Yes for the L4 and the L6. I have one from an '84 Maxima L24 on my 710 L20B. It just barely clears my oil pressure sender. L4 GR starters are at the very least an option on Canadian rucks if not standard equipment. I have several Z series GR starters from 720s. 1 Quote Link to comment
thisismatt Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Crashtd420 said: Wow prices went up... listed for $289 right now, but it is the only one that says it's new. .. I've seen a couple other gear reduction starts around 225 but they are remans.... Sounds like I will warranty what I have and be saving up for Christmas ... MrBigTanker bucks are bigger than average Joe bucks, so his $225 is your $289 :P 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted July 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 Well I tried to get the Chevy fixed first last night. I got to the point where i was trying to do the relearn procedure to setup the delete module.... well the damn battery died... so I put it on the battery charge, and turned my attention to the datsun... still needed something to drive to work.... So here is the interesting store.... I still feel they fuckup the transaction, for some reason he struggled to do the warranty swap... in the end, even after I said he was wrong, I walked out with $40 in my pocket and a replacement starter... I've never got cash back on a warranty swap.... I tried to say that the 40 must be the core charge.... he says that's what the computer and his manager said he was right, saying something that the old starter must have cost more.... Whatever... I said thanks took my cash and starter and went home.... Oh and the new starter was nicer than what I gave them so bonus there too... Still gonna look for something better and new but for now I'm good.... 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted July 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 So now that the starter is fixed, I'm still questioning my charging system.... everything seems to be functioning well but my voltage seems to drop as I am driving..... I start off around 14.2, and about 10 minutes out I'm around 13... and by the time I get to work my gauge reads around the 12.5.... This was similar before with the 35 amp alt, I just assumed the electric fans and pumps were doing that.... but the same seems to be happening with the 60 amp... The other wierd thing was yesterday when the battery cable fell off it stayed consistent at 14.2 unless I turned the lights on.... ( fans and fuel pump were running) I don't remember what the battery voltage was at rest, 12.2- 12.5 I believe... so I don't think it's a battery issue... My question is can a bad voltage regulator also cause an under charging issues? Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 A volt gauge will indicate battery output when engine off and charge rate when engine running. I had an old Dodge that had a current meter. It would surge to the positive side after starting as the battery was 'filled' back up and slowly dropped to just above zero when full. A good charged battery is (about) 12.6 volts. Starting will remove some of the stored energy that needs replacing so the current charge rate will be higher and slowly tapering off as the battery 'fills' up. Generally you need a couple of extra volts to push this charge into the battery so the voltage from the alternator should be and remain at just above 14 volts. The alternator should be able to increase it's output in current to compensate for headlights and heater being turned on. The regulator, weather it's the external type on the inner fender, or the built in (internal) type, tell the alternator when and how much to increase it's output. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted July 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 I agree with everything you said.. Still running the external regulator.... I know a failing regulator will cause over voltage, but can a failing regulatory also cause the alternator to not output the 14 volts as the demand increases..... Seems like whenever I start it I have 14 volts and then the voltage seems to drop after time.... this was kind of the same with the 35 amp alt... that's why I'm wondering about the regulator.... 1 Quote Link to comment
mainer311 Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 My guess is yes. They're electromechanical, and sometimes the points inside can stick open or closed. They'll over-voltage if the points are sticking closed, and undervoltage if they're stuck open. VR's are current-sensing, and if that part of it is dead, then it can't adjust for increasing circuit loads. Alternators don't increase their output current. Current is pulled, not pushed. The alt acts as a constant current source, so when the VR starts seeing a drop in voltage, it increases the field to tell the alt to maintain it's output. The current rating on the alternator is just what it can keep up with in terms of draw. It's not always putting out 60A. (Sorry, just trying to keep the terminology straight.) 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted July 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 minute ago, mainer311 said: My guess is yes. They're electromechanical, and sometimes the points inside can stick open or closed. They'll over-voltage if the points are sticking closed, and undervoltage if they're stuck open. VR's are current-sensing, and if that part of it is dead, then it can't adjust for increasing circuit loads. Alternators don't increase their output current. Current is pulled, not pushed. The alt acts as a constant current source, so when the VR starts seeing a drop in voltage, it increases the field to tell the alt to maintain it's output. The current rating on the alternator is just what it can keep up with in terms of draw. It's not always putting out 60A. (Sorry, just trying to keep the terminology straight.) Ya pretty much what you and Mike have said is what I am thinking.... symptoms seem the same between the alternators so I guess I'll check a few connections later and if I find nothing wrong I'll try a new regulator.... thanks... 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted July 12, 2018 Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 45 minutes ago, mainer311 said: Alternators don't increase their output current. Yes they do. Output is a function of load (resistance) and voltage. If the load increases (resistance decreases as in headlights, heater and wipers added) the regulator tries to keep up by maintaining the 14.4 volts output and the current has to follow with an increase. I (current)= V (volts)/ R (resistance) If voltage remains constant then any decrease in R (resistance) increases I (current). The field coil voltage is increased or decreased by the regulator. This increases the magnetic field that passes through the windings and increases the current output. The alternator doesn't put out it's rated amount unless the regulator says so but it can to maintain the charge voltage of about 14.4 volts.. Push or pull are just two sides of the same thing. Pushing current into a battery is much easier to visualize. There are few things you fill where you pull the contents into it. You fill a bag by pushing things into it. You don't fill a glass of water by pulling it in. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted July 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2018 8 hours ago, mainer311 said: VR's are current-sensing, and if that part of it is dead, then it can't adjust for increasing circuit load... So going with this theory here.... i've checked everything I can think of, all seems to be plugged in correctly and grounded properly.. the alternator is working because I have 14 volts after it starts.. but as i turn things on like the fuel pump, then fans, and in the morning lights, with each thing being turned on the voltage is dropping.... It just never compensates for the load.... if i turn things off the voltage increases back up to 14..... So as I said earlier I'm gonna replace the regulator and hope that cures it.... 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 Well the alternator may have a bad diode so the total output is compromised. The regulator may be telling it to make more but it just can't. I think there are auto supply stores that will load test your alternator. Maybe the regulator as well. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted July 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 13 hours ago, datzenmike said: Well the alternator may have a bad diode so the total output is compromised. The regulator may be telling it to make more but it just can't. I think there are auto supply stores that will load test your alternator. Maybe the regulator as well. Well around here no one can test the regulator at least not that I have found.. I had the old 35 amp altenator tested, and it passed.... And the new 60 amp is doing basically the same thing as the last altenator, but with more available amps.... I couldn't find any fault with the wiring, and they way its wired was working at one point, plus the regulator in the truck is probably 15 plus years old from autozone... I ordered a new one from O'Reilly today... I know the old theory about diagnosing before just throwing a new part at it, but at this point I don't know what else to do.. 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 Well if doing the same thing with two different alternators then regulator, maybe the wiring or battery but I thing you've narrowed it down. 1 Quote Link to comment
mklotz70 Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 You're still running the stock regulator. Is it the old mechanical style or a newer electronic unit? Is the new 60A alt an internally regulated unit? You'll have to bypass the factory regulator if it is. Regulating the regulated output isn't going to work well. You can still get new, electronic regulators via rockauto or you local parts store. This should be one here.... https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=337722&cc=1209989&jsn=358&jsn=358 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted July 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, mklotz70 said: You're still running the stock regulator. Is it the old mechanical style or a newer electronic unit? Is the new 60A alt an internally regulated unit? You'll have to bypass the factory regulator if it is. Regulating the regulated output isn't going to work well. You can still get new, electronic regulators via rockauto or you local parts store. This should be one here.... https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=337722&cc=1209989&jsn=358&jsn=358 It was a newer electric unit, but it was bought back in 2003/2004 when I first bought and drove the truck.. The newer altenator is still externally regulated, it a 60 amp from the same year 510, and that car uses the same regulator.... And the part you lists is basically what I got from O'Reilly... 1 Quote Link to comment
mklotz70 Posted July 13, 2018 Report Share Posted July 13, 2018 Ah....thanks. I didn't have time to go through it too closely. Make sure you grounds are good between the battery, body, chassis and alternator. Any ground will let you see the voltage, but poor grounds won't allow the current to pass and the current does flow from ground to positive. 1 Quote Link to comment
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