Strut mods(pic heavy)

[Creepy Cruiser]

Cool, thanks for the info. (that's kinda what I thought)

 

No worries, I'll probably go the route of just making the 280zx's into the same as what I have now, and just keep these as sentimental pieces on my wall, as the first real coil-overs I ever had, lol (they did me good for almost 25 years)

 

Thanks dude!

[mklotz70]

I wasn't real clear....when I said to copy the dimensions from the 510 struts to the 280....I was also meaning to transfer the parts too. If the threaded sleeves are welded on, cut them off carefully and reuse them on the 280 tubes. Mount them at the same height from the bottom and leave the adjusters where they're at, unless they extend past the top of the new tube. Your goal is to simply get the bottom of the spring back to the same position on the new struts. You can use the same top hat setup as well. Basically, you'll just be replacing the tube/spindle and keeping the top setup the same.

 

Depending on which 280zx struts you get, you may need to run camber plates if you aren't already.

 

 

Worse case....get a set of those cheap coilovers off ebay....use the new threaded tubes and lock nuts with your coils and top hats.

Edited November 26, 2009 by mklotz70

[Creepy Cruiser]

Yep, I had though about that and I thought about just whacking them off from the collar sleeves down and just putting the 280zx on from there, but new steel sleeves are not that much money, (I'm just not a big fan of the floating aluminum like most, I'm sure they're just fine though). I was going to tear everything all down to powder coat everything anyway, so I might as well start fresh, (and this way, if for some crazy reason I didn't like them, I can always go back to what I have now). I'll use the same springs and top hats most likely, since the 280zx's I have are the same angle as the ones I have in there now.

 

Thanks for all your input.

[mklotz70]

Creepy....if you get the info on where to get the steel sleeves cheap...preferably with nuts.....post it up here...I'd like to incorporate those into the 210 springs :)

[mklotz70]

So...I'm not sure this could actually be called "getting sidetracked" since I was working on the front end of the wgn before the grinder popped up. I was waiting for these swedged tubes to show up. I've had the idea for some time, but it popped back up a few weeks ago when I was surfing for something else. I saw the T/C rods that Troy Ermish makes. I really like them, but I just don't drive hard enough to warrant the expensive joint at the front. I'm only looking for a bit of adjustment to be able to tweak the alignment. I don't need anything radical. So, I've always thought that it would be a nice upgrade to have adjustable T/C rods that mounted up to factory bushings. So....here we go :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Turned out one of the rods was bent a bit.....fixed that in a few minutes. Notice in the second pic, I left the end of the rod hanging over the plate...they actually have a bend in them from the factory and I didn't want to un-bend it while doing this. You have to over-bend the bar a slight bit so that it will spring back to straight. I checked it against a straight edge....right on the money. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I marked everything up...the other stuff is in the pic to get more "bang-for-the-buck" :) My posts start taking so long to load...I'm going to try to consolidate info as I can. Anyway.... I'll end up cutting 2" out of the middle so that the ends can't hit if major adjustment is done. I want a 1/2" of threads sticking out of the end of the tube....I might have to allow more now that I remember that the locknut has to go on..... A 1/2" at each end will equal 1" total adjustment and according to yello620...I don't want to go more than 1/2" with stock lower control arm bushings. I also wanted to leave as much rod inside the tube as possible.

 

 

 

I was going to put the die handle here, but it's not really related to struts.....so I'll put that in the machine work thread....that way the guys that only want the strut/suspension info won't have to wade through the extra pics.

 

http://forum.ratsun.net/showthread.php?p=238257#post238257

 

 

 

 

I held the end piece in the lathe since it would probably spin in the vise. The bar is to turn the lathe chuck. With the transmission of the lathe in between gears, the chuck spins easily.....except for the load of cutting the threads. I'm sure someone is wondering why I didn't just cut the threads on the lathe. Aside from the fact that I don't know how to do that yet....the bar is too uneven. It's only a couple thousandths over 5/8", so there's not enough metal to cut off to true up. On a suspension component like this...I don't want to make it any smaller than necessary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's as far as I got today. My plan is to cut down the other end, clamp it in the vise(it's got a flat section to stop the spinning) and put the left handed threads on it. The tube is threaded right and left to act like a turnbuckle. The tube only allows the rod to go in so far. I kinda expected it to go farther. So, I'm going to have to trim some of the rod off that I've already threaded. The turnbuckle action will give me plenty of adjustment even though each end will only have a total of about an inch of movement. I need to make sure that there's plenty of rod left inside the tube. Since the adjustment will be typically to shorten the rod, I don't think there will be a problem with over extending it :)

Edited December 3, 2009 by mklotz70

[Creepy Cruiser]

That's killer!

 

On the steel coil-over sleeves, I was going to get them from Coleman Racing http://www.colemanracing.com/store/shopexd.asp?id=6426 , but they changed their site and I can't seem to find the adjuster nuts on there now. Another place (put more expensive) is http://designproductsracing.com/510_FrontSuspension.html .

[mklotz70]

Thanks for that info! $120 is still pretty steep.

I think I'd probably go with the ebay coilover kits for $50. I'd just tack weld a ring above the threaded sleeve to keep it from sliding up and down.

[freaky510]

you are truly amazing. I was wondering how this could be done in a Ratsun budget

[]2eDeYe]

Great idea. I like that die handle :cool:

[sssr20det510]

how much did it run you??

[mklotz70]

2eDeYe;238356'']Great idea. I like that die handle :cool:

 

The die handle was fun :)

 

 

 

how much did it run you??

 

The tubes were about $38. $8.37ea tube, Nuts .94ea. Shipping $10.34. http://www.pitstopusa.com I'd prefer to make them out of hex shaft, but you just can't beat that price!!! I'd have to by taps to make the turnbuckles....maybe later....but for now, it was definitely cheaper to get the tubes.

 

The dies were around $42 @ Parkrose hardware.

[sssr20det510]

how many degrees of caster do you think you can get from just adjustable tc rods, I hear people saying 6 degrees of caster is the best. do you think you can get that from them or will caster plates be needed???

[mklotz70]

6 deg is best for what kind of driving. The more caster, the more stable at high speed, but the harder it will be to drive slow in a parking lot with wide tires.

 

I don't see any way to get anything close to that without plates. I think the 1/2" I moved the LCA with the previous T/C mod only gained about a 1/2 deg? The LCA pivot point will need to be modified to something with more articulation before you could move it more than the 1/2". I'll play with that mod some other time :) Besides...you pull it too far forward, it will off center the wheel in the well.

[sssr20det510]

you need to make some caster plates for me lol

[mklotz70]

...uummm...ya....I'll get right on that! :) lol ...but since they're at the bottom of the list.....give me about 2.5yrs :)

 

 

It's my monday and I actually got something done in the shop...amazing!! I started making the final measurements so that I could cut the rods. I got the threads on the 2nd front piece done. I had the back piece in the vice...won't fit in the lathe. The bench vise turned out to be the best way to hold it. I kept trying and trying to get the die started. At about the 10min mark, my buddy A100addict called me up to ask what I was doing. I told him that I was getting frustrated. As the words "left hand die" came out of my mouth, it dawned on me that I had been turning it the wrong way!! :( Once I got back to it, the die grabbed in the first turn of the handle. So, I got one of the back pieces threaded. I'm going to have to buy taps to clean out the tubes......and since I'll have the taps.....I'm going to get some hex bar stock and make my own turnbuckles before I mount them up. I'll cut the threads on the other piece, probably tomorrow, then set everything aside and get back on the grinder :)

 

I'm not very impressed with the tubes. The threads aren't great and the threaded hole isn't even straight in the tube. Since I've already got one rod cut for these tubes, I'll cut the other the same. If I do another set, I'll leave even more rod :)

 

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2009 by mklotz70

[stilltwisted]

thanks for the great info ,,

 

because the front mount is rubber gromet on the tcrod ,,does it need to be both left/right thread ,,adj the lenth you need over all ,,then bolt down the gromet ,,i see that you already have the left hand die ,,but i could save a 10dollar die,,just wondering

[sssr20det510]

its so you can adjust it on the car, if they were both right hand thread you could not adjust it without unbolting it

[mklotz70]

thanks for the great info ,,

 

because the front mount is rubber gromet on the tcrod ,,does it need to be both left/right thread ,,adj the lenth you need over all ,,then bolt down the gromet ,,i see that you already have the left hand die ,,but i could save a 10dollar die,,just wondering

 

If you do your own alignments, ya...you could make it work with the same RH threads on both ends. It would probably frustrate an alignment shop. Plus, you couldn't use the pre-made tubes.....you'd have to make your own.

 

Every time you go to adjust them, you'll wish you'd have done it right the first time.

 

...oh...and it's more like a $30 die :)

[Dime Dave]

Mike,

Lefthander Chassis (circle track fab/parts house) sells a product called "Tap Tubing". It has the proper ID for tapping. Comes in aluminum (hex or oct depending on supply available) for 1/4" to 3/4" rod ends in 1/8" increments or round steel for 5/8 & 3/4. It is sold by the foot.

 

I had a source for round aluminum, but have since lost their contact info.

 

Link: http://www.lefthanderchassis.com/26.html Look down in the lower right corner of the page.

[stilltwisted]

If you do your own alignments, ya...you could make it work with the same RH threads on both ends. It would probably frustrate an alignment shop. Plus, you couldn't use the pre-made tubes.....you'd have to make your own.

 

Every time you go to adjust them, you'll wish you'd have done it right the first time.

 

...oh...and it's more like a $30 die :)

 

thats a great point ,,i guess ill buy the die,,

[moath]

Since the 300zx strut is an inch shorter than the 280zx, which is 1.5-2" shorter than the 510........that makes mine about 5.5-6" shorter than the stock 510 strut(later model) :)

 

 

You mentioned the 300ZX struts put the spindle at the wrong angle. Were these Z31 struts? Was it at an angle that gave too much positive camber or something? I've been thinking about Z31 struts on my 510 and am trying to determine how feasible it is.

 

Thanks! This thread is a gold mine of information.

[mklotz70]

Mike,

Lefthander Chassis (circle track fab/parts house) sells a product called "Tap Tubing". It has the proper ID for tapping. Comes in aluminum (hex or oct depending on supply available) for 1/4" to 3/4" rod ends in 1/8" increments or round steel for 5/8 & 3/4. It is sold by the foot.

 

I had a source for round aluminum, but have since lost their contact info.

 

Link: http://www.lefthanderchassis.com/26.html Look down in the lower right corner of the page.

 

oooo...that's a sweet source!! :) I like the price of the pre-made aluminum hex ones....but, the raw stuff is much cheaper.

 

So, do you think the aluminum will hold up to daily driver use? Part of the appeal of the tubes was that they were steel. I could certainly run the tap in further and be able to keep more of the rod in tact.....which would negate the aluminum being an issue. Thanks for the link Dave!!!

 

 

 

You mentioned the 300ZX struts put the spindle at the wrong angle. Were these Z31 struts? Was it at an angle that gave too much positive camber or something? I've been thinking about Z31 struts on my 510 and am trying to determine how feasible it is.

 

Thanks! This thread is a gold mine of information.

 

Yep...you got it. I haven't checked, but the info I found at the time said that the positive camber was enough that camber plates wouldn't pull the top of the strut in far enough. There's a way around that, but it's really drastic....it would be better to find more compatible struts. ...hhmm....you might look at the offset you can run with the z31 stuff. You might be able to lengthen your LCAs enough to keep the top of the strut in the tower and the tire with in the wheel well........????.........maybe??? You'd have to do some careful checking on that. If you do..post up what you find here.

[mklotz70]

If you have trouble getting a die of this size to start, try grinding a bigger taper onto the end of the rod. The rod is a tiny bit over the size the die wants, so before it can start, it has to cut it down a bit......which on one of this size, takes quite a bit of force. So, the taper gives you a bit of a head start.

 

 

 

Okay....this is pretty much the end of the tension rod stuff. I probably should have put it in a separate thread...oh well. I'll probably revisit it a bit down the road when I get the taps and the hex tube Dave showed me :) Until then, these tubes don't work well enough, so they're going to sit on the shelf. So...basically, I spent about $80 and two days of time to makes some cool shiny bits for my shelves :(

 

[thisismatt]

My bro in law has aluminum tie rods on a 75 chevy desert race truck with I think 35" tires. I bet they see more stress than your T/C rods with anything you'll be doing on the street.

[mklotz70]

Thanks....that sounds like a pretty good validation to me!! :) Now, I just need to come up with more money :)