Strut mods(pic heavy)

[mklotz70]

Sorry I don't. There's probably a couple of other guys on here that might know.

 

Basically, get a diameter measurement of your springs and find a car with similar ones that you know is heavier. Sport models over luxury models might be better too.....although the luxury versions were usually a lot heavier.

 

I used 210 springs on setup that's in my wgn right now. Between those and the 300zx inserts, I have yet to bottom out the front end. The only reason I went with those is because someone else told me that's what they had on there wgn.

 

Sorry...not holding out....just don't know :(

[mklotz70]

It was more for education than accomplishment. As mentioned, I'm selling them....I wanted to see if there was any combonation that would let me run my snowflakes without having to do the camber plates on the 280zx struts. These 200sx struts have the right spindle angle, so converting them to 4 lug would let me run them, but they push them out too far. If 280zx hubs could be used, I get the angle and they'd bring the rims in more than stock. win/win :)

 

Basically, it proved that once these struts are installed, 4 to 5 lug swap is as simple as changing out the hub/rotor.

 

I did notice the difference in the seal. The 280zx hub I was using didn't have the seal in it. Since both hubs use the same bearing, the outer diameter has to be the same........so you'd simply put the 200sx seal in the 280 hub and it's would work fine.....or vice-versa.......280 seal in the 200sx hub. :)

 

I got me some education.....but really didn't get anything done :(

 

..oh....I did figure out that it should be possible to put 300zx hubs/rotors/calipers on the stock 510 spindle....but that scenario doesn't get me anywhere, so there's no point in pursuing it.

[thisismatt]

But the seals don't mate to the same surface as the bearing race. They don't swap, at least not on the sets I had.

[mklotz70]

The outer diameter matches on all of them.....so you use the seal that matches the strut.

[thisismatt]

Wish I had taken pictures when I was fudging around with mine because they certainly wouldn't interchange and were clearly different just looking at them, and I ordered both 280zx and 200sx seals. If you look up the 280zx and the 200sx (kragen, rock auto, etc) you'll find that they have different seals. I know that the bearings are the same, but that doesn't mean the seals are. Maybe we're not talking about the same thing...?

[mklotz70]

Just did a bit of checking online and found that one of the seal options is a big one that kinda wraps around the end of the hub. I ran into the same thing on the hardbody hubs doing the truck brake kit. I found another seal that worked perfectly.

 

I'll look at them a bit closer today before I put it all away. If the hub is turned to a different diameter for the seal, then I'm completely wrong. I've made a couple of assumptions that I need to verify. I'll try to get the info on here today :)

[mklotz70]

You were right......the 280 hub has a step in it so it has a different OD.

 

first pic is the 280 hub....second is the 300 with the 280 seal sitting on it. If you happen to notice the rotors are mixed up...ignore it, I have them swapped around from testing "options" yesterday :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

My buick century rims fit the 200sx 5 lug setup just fine!! :) They too small to fit over the caliper(which is not on right now), but the offsets are fine. The tires are too tall to work on a 510 anyway.

 

 

[thisismatt]

Yeah, that looks about right :) The 4-lug 200sx s12 hub is almost identical to the 300zx hub, but not quite. I don't remember the exact differences, though. Ever so slight offset different, among other things, if I remember correctly.

[mklotz70]

It's gotta be a pretty miniscule difference.....I mounted the 300zx hubs/rotors onto the 200sx struts with the 200sx calipers and everything look good.

 

If you take into consideration that the strut angle is a bit different on the 300, that would probably make the caliper mounts a bit different...so maybe the 300 calipers won't work on the 200sx struts with the 300 hubs/rotors? Who knows......I'm pretty much past caring :)

 

I checked my 280zx struts again today and they are the ones that have the same angle as the 510 struts.......so I don't need the camber plates after all.

 

I did a mod to the tension rods to gain some caster.....since it's relevant to this thread, I'll post it up a bit later :)

[mklotz70]

So...because of my strut shortening, I've lost some caster. The vid is of checking the angle and taking some measurements to know how much to mod the tension rod. Thanks to Icehouse for reminding me about this mod. I did it to the NL's tension rods.....hadn't really thought about it for the wgn.

 

[stilltwisted]

thanks for taking a lot of the guess work out of my (jy) trips ,,so there is an inexpensive 5 lug conversion

 

thanks mklotz

brent

[mklotz70]

The plan is to remove some metal from the TC rod and allow it to be pulled forward about a 1/2"......since that's about how much it's pushing the LCA towards the rear. The center bore on my lathe isn't big enough to mount the rod the other way. On the trucks, they don't have the bend in the end, they are straight.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can see that the nut would run out of threads before cinching down tight on the barrel. A lock washer was just enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

When I took the rods out, I had to physically push the LCA to the rear a bit to get the bolts out because the rod was forcing it back. With the 1/2" removed, you can see that it will want to pull it forward now. The front nut squeezing the bushings is not tightened in these pics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Up to this point, I had thought the front bushing were rubber. Turns out they are urethane. Typically, urethane is better, but (gee...I'm almost afraid to ever reference them....) in a DQ article, they brought up how stiff and unforgiving the urethane bushings are. On a stock ride height vehicle, no prob. But on a lowered vehicle, the TC rod is in constant strain against the bushing. The article said that the TC rod can actually break in this situation. Their recommendation was to drill holes in the urethane to make it more squishy and take some of the load off the rod. I did this to the NL's bushings, but I used the mill and the DRO's then. That took a ton of time!!!!! This time, I eyeballed the divisions like slicing a pizza(lots of experience there!!!) and hand drilled them. I've heard it said that you should freeze the bushing first...wasn't needed in this case. I ran the bit in and out at least a half dozen times or so to ream the hole out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I gained about 1/2" as expected. The caster is more pronounced now. If I decide that I need to reverse it, or change it to less when I put the roll center adjusters(bump steer spacers) in, I can put a spacer(washer or tubing) where I cut the metal off the rod and it will go back to original length. :)

 

 

[mklotz70]

thanks for taking a lot of the guess work out of my (jy) trips ,,so there is an inexpensive 5 lug conversion

 

thanks mklotz

brent

 

.....????.....inexpensive compared to what other conversion method? Just curious. I've been more into the trucks, so I haven't followed the 510 stuff much. How are they converting to 5 lug currently?

 

This is made easier by the fact that my back yard is a scrap yard :)

 

 

...and you're welcome :)

[mklotz70]

Uploading the vid again as an .flv file....is sure converted a ton faster and even uploaded faster....now to see just how it looks in use. I'm pretty tired of the mpgs not having the audio and video synched up.

 

[heirfaus]

Hey Mike,

 

Do you still have parts in the garage or numbers recorded. Just wondering if you had any info to fill in some blanks.....

 

http://www.the510realm.com/download/file.php?id=6489

[mklotz70]

I saved it and printed it. I'll try to remember to check...I just got done putting it back together and down on the ground so I can play with something different tomorrow. I had the strut tubes out and took measurements, but just for the references I needed to shorten the 280zx tubes for the 300zx inserts. Doesn't look like there are too many blanks that actually matter.

[stilltwisted]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stilltwisted View Post

thanks for taking a lot of the guess work out of my (jy) trips ,,so there is an inexpensive 5 lug conversion

 

thanks mklotz

brent

.....????.....inexpensive compared to what other conversion method? Just curious. I've been more into the trucks, so I haven't followed the 510 stuff much. How are they converting to 5 lug currently?

 

the only over the conter 5 lug swap i had found was from wilwood ,,so this seems like a better idea to me,,thanks for the info mkoltz

[mklotz70]

Oh ya......I guess since they're way out of my price range, I never look at them as an option. From that perspective...yes...this is way cheaper!!

 

It's a couple bucks more, but it appears you can do it in stages too. You can put the struts on, put 4 lug stuff on and run your current wheels(provided offset and backspacing work), then later, when you get the wheels, you can switch to the 5 lug stuff. sssr20det510 is supposed to be picking up the parts today....hopefully, he'll put up pics as he does the swap.

 

I just thought about this....since I think I figured out how to put the 300zx stuff on the 510 strut....that would mean that the 5 lug hub would work too. I guess I might revisit that sometime.

[mklotz70]

Napaonline is a great place to get dimensions. I'm sure this info is earlier in the thread, but I've been looking at short insert options.......the shortest I can find, by 1mm is the '81 Colt vista 2dr. Not readily available do to limited production...but, if you happen across one in the scrapyard with good inserts...it's an option.

 

The '80 VW Rabbit/Scirroco are the next shortest. You'd want the German version since it's 1/4" shorter than the US version.

 

I like the ride height of the 300 setup I did and didn't really want to go any lower.

 

 

..hhmm...at a glance...body lengths of the inserts.

 

280zx 15"

300zx 14" (top hat needs mod)

MR2 rear 13.75"

VW Scirocco (US) 12.75"

" " (German) 12.5"

 

 

....now if you go back and look at the VW site I linked to, he shortened the actual insert....so you could go even shorter if you want. Most likely, you'll run out of tube and the spring perch will hit the tire. If you run coil overs, it probably won't be an issue, but you'll start slamming the crossmember into the ground. At my ride height, my cross member is about 4" off the ground. One me and a buddy get in, I'm sure it's 3" or less(probably much less!! :( :)

Edited November 25, 2009 by mklotz70

[Cuts metal like mad]

Just checked out napaonline mike, it says this.

 

280zx 15"

AW11 MR2 rear 13.5"

AW11 MR2 front 14.5"

SW20 MR2 rear 14" (when I used these on a members struts they fit EXACTLY inside the 280zx housings)

SW20 MR2 front 13.125"

[Pacific coast Datsun]

Awesome thread Mike. TY for doing all the research & posting the pics / info. My situation is this. On my wagon...stock struts w/ cut springs which lowered the car 3 inches. Id like to go 1 more inch to close the wheel gap. In your opinion, if i cut the spring perch weld & lower / reweld & or clamp it 1 inch lower will this be safe? As the car sits now the inserts dont bottom out.

[mklotz70]

This is what I got. Not positive the white ones are napa, but I just grabbed the blue ones this morning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Mark. Sorry...I don't really know. If you're going to go through the work of moving the spring perch, it's not much more to shorten the tube. If you have new 510 inserts, find someone with a stock 510 that will trade/buy them and get some 280zx ones. I'm surprised you're not bottoming out right now.

[mklotz70]

Just checked out napaonline mike, it says this.

 

280zx 15"

AW11 MR2 rear 13.5"

AW11 MR2 front 14.5"

SW20 MR2 rear 14" (when I used these on a members struts they fit EXACTLY inside the 280zx housings)

SW20 MR2 front 13.125"

 

 

 

Not sure what to say on the fit. This mod has been around a long time...any chance his tubes were modified already? Maybe there's two different zx strut lengths?

[Creepy Cruiser]

Hey mike, I just had a quick question for you. I've been following your threads (and I love your work), and I thought I saw somewhere that you said something about getting 280zx hubs to fit on 510 struts. Or am I mistaken?

 

See the thing is, I have already shortened (1/2" shorter than 280zx) and steel collared 510 struts that I've been running since the 80's, and I love them. I don't really want to change them out if I can help it, because my suspension is dialed just the way I like it . I just want to upgrade to vented brakes, and the 280zx rotors and calipers still fit inside my 13's. I got a set 280zx struts and was about to start modding them, (because I thought that it was the only way to go), but if I could just find a way to swap the hubs and rotors, I can make the caliper bracket. Any ideas would be cool.

 

[mklotz70]

Anything is possible with a welder and a really big hammer!! :)

 

If you could make a plate that moved the caliper to the opposite side of the strut, you can probably get them to work. Challenge is the diameter of the 280zx rotor is not big enough to leave any clearance for a bracket. You'll have to make some bearing adapters too. The 510 spindle is the same length as the 280zx/200sx/300zx spindles, so theoretically, with a bearing spacer, you could make any of them fit. A100addict and I did a mock up of the 300zx hub/rotor onto the 510 strut. I think we got it figured out......then we realized that he could fit the setup behind his 14" rims and we dropped it like a hot potatoe. Who knows when I'll get back to that.....if ever.

 

I think your best bet would be to do the 280 upgrade. To keep the suspension dialed in, copy the measurements from your current setup to the new on. Base the measurements from the backside, at the bottom of the spindle casting, where the ball joint/steering arm meet up. I'm going to be doing that soon. When I'm done, I should be at exactly the same ride heigth.

 

oh...There's a prob with seal sizes. I think I already touchd on it. I have to go back and re-read it now.

 

If you do it...take pics!! :)