Strut mods(pic heavy)

[zenndog]

I am reading up on 510's. Was looking in to strut mods, found this link. I was surprised myself that everyone didn't comment on it. Guess they were to in awe of your fabrication.

 

I like the way you keep telling everyone it is for "show" purposes only. I have a friend who modifies cars for a living. He has business liability insurance and I always wonder if the insurance company really knows what he does in his shop.:eek:

 

I won't ask if you ever did any but how many PM's did you get about it. Z

[mklotz70]

A lot of guys check this stuff from their phones...my threads are not phone friendly :) Threads like this...I don't post so much for all the feedback as I do just for reference. It is nice to get some feedback, but too much starts to kill the thread. I really like to see other guys posting up there info and pics of the process in the same thread. Then when someone goes searching for the info.....it's mostly in one place.

 

I actually didn't get anyone asking me to do them. Those are so short that if you put the spring perch back on t the top...it still wouldn't clear the tire.

 

These struts will come off and I'll do something different for the final version.

[Dime Dave]

Mike,

I shortened a set of 200SX struts for my Datsun 1200 racecar. I used steel sleeves I bought from Coleman Racing, P/N 421-700

 

Link: http://www.colemanracing.com/store/shopexd.asp?id=6426

 

I used a variation of your copper tube insert when I welded the strut tube together. I purchased some copper sheet from the local hardware store, rolled it into a tube and cut off the extra just before it was overlapping when inserted inside the strut tube. I then used my exhaust tube expander, inserting it inside the copper sheet and expanding it to sandwich the copper sheet against the inside of the strut tube. With the strut tube pieces properly aligned, the exhaust tubing expander will hold everything in place for welding. The expander cranked tight will not allow any shifting. Having the clamping fixture inside the tube makes it less bulky and easier to handle the part while welding it up.

 

I ground down the weld on the outside of the strut tube so I could slide the threaded sleeve over it. The sleeve ID is slightly larger than the tube OD so I used 3 thin pieces of inch wide copper shim stock (could be aluminum or steel) between the tube and sleeve, spaced evenly around its OD to center the sleeve over the tube. These have a slight amount of spring to them so they will not fully fill the gap, but will center the sleeve on the tube. After you tack weld the sleeve to the tube between the spacer shims, you can pull them out and finish fully welding around the sleeve top and bottom.

 

If you back-up the weld area with your copper sheet/exhaust expander when welding the sleeve to the tube it will help keep the weld from penetrating into the strut tube bore. If not, you will likely end up filing off the excess weld inside of the tube so the cartridge will slide in. I learned this the hard way. I am using Koni race inserts which fit extremely tight. They require the paint be removed from the cartridge just so they will fit inside a Datsun strut tube. A smooth inside bore and correct alignment of the strut tube when it is welded back together are needed when using these Koni inserts. They will not fit if anything is out of alignment or intrudes into the strut tube bore.

 

I'm sure everyone has a different method for doing this. Just thought I'd share my technique.

[mklotz70]

Thanks Dave! That's an awesome idea to use the expander with the sheeting! I had thought about the expander, but was afraid I'd melt the rubber bands and I didn't think of the copper sheet. I may just use that method next time!! That would even make tacking it all the way around easier.

 

Thanks for the write up!! ...and the links! One of these days I'll get back to my wagon and the next set of struts :)

[pl521sss]

Very informative strut thread Mike

If I've known better

 

A month ago, I tried removing the spring perch with a grinder:blink::blink:

Well, that didn't go well

Now couldn't even tell where the welds are now

[mklotz70]

Thanks. Hopefully, some more guys will post up there pics/ideas/directions :)

 

and your pics are where? :)

[Braden]

KLOTZ oil, is the shit, i love klotz i run it in my kx125 smells so damn good, i would buy it just to smell it

 

Finally got around to pulling all the springs off. Still have a lot of perches to cut off, but it's a start.

 

Not much to post...just a couple of pics....mainly so that I don't end up with a huge pile of them later. Spent an hour or so chasing tools and parts to proceed with this project. Sure hope it goes easier than the valve cover!!!

 

 

 

Sure wish I had more shop!!!

 

This is the HF compressor. Works okay....not completely thrilled with it. Was a lot easier once I clamped it in the vise. It's like it's not aligned or welded together right. Oh well...you get what you pay for :(

 

 

 

Yeehaw! New 280zx inserts....still pop right back up from the gas charge :) Of course, I have NIB inserts sitting in the shed. In fact, if any of the local guys want to trade a pair of brand new, never mounted 280zx inserts for some 300zx inserts, I'd be up for it. PM me about it.

 

Not sure what the plans are tomorrow....might get to play with them some more.

[mklotz70]

We sold the oil in the Yamaha shop I worked in my senior year of HS. I've never used the oil. I just buy the stickers and hats because of my last name :) Not related as far as I know, but the first time I wrote to them, they sent me an envelope full of stickers because of my name :)

[dimedriver]

What mods are needed to run the 1st gen 300ZX struts in the 510?

 

My current setup was put on it the 80's and it has sagged.

I think its cut roadster comp springs in the back. Shortened 510 struts up front with Z springs.

 

 

-Avery

[stilltwisted]

mike ,,im curious about 300z stuff too lots of them in JY here

[mklotz70]

Sorry...don't have an answer for you. Maybe Bleach has an answer. My guess would be that the spindle angle is way off... I was only after the shorter strut cartridge....but it wasn't worth the small gain.

[dimedriver]

Ok, So you were basically using just the 300zx insert as your shock.

And shortening the 280zx body to show how low you can go?

 

Like car limbo or something?

 

I have herd that the 200sx strut bodies/spindles are more or less the same as the 280zx stuff. Is this true. I think I saw 5 to 8 of them in the Newark, ca pick and pull.

 

 

-Avery

 

 

 

 

 

-Avery

[mklotz70]

Basically :)

 

It was actually the stock 510 housing I shortened for my wgn. I have 280zx struts waiting. I don't need to go extremely low, so I don't know that I'll even bother shortening those.

 

There are other guys on here much better versed in the struts than I. For me...most of these projects are like mid-terms...I cram for a bit to get all the knowledge I need to do what I need....then I move onto another project and I'm lucky if I retain much of the info afterwards :)

 

I do know that the '87 200sx struts are the ones you want. The spindle angle is the same. My understanding is that they are a direct bolt in, once you put the 510 top hat on. I don't know for sure if you have to change the springs or not. I have a set in the shed...the 5 lug setup....but I don't remember if the springs are the same as the 510 or not. I'm sure they're a bit bigger.

[stilltwisted]

thanks for the great info mike,, will the rotor and caliper from the 300z fit the (80) 280zx strut ,,for a cheep 5lug bigger break upgrade,,thanks again..

[mklotz70]

I not sure I'm remembering this 100% accurately, but I'm 99% sure that the spindle shaft itself is the same on the 280,200,300 struts. The prob is that the backspacing is different and the calipers won't bolt up. The hub will transfer between each one. If you could figure out how to make a bracket that would hold the 300zx caliper on the 280zx strut, you'd have even bigger brakes. But if I remember right....I looked at it and couldn't see any possible way to make it work with stock calipers. The bracket that actually mounts to the strut gets in the way. Could be done easily with wilwoods or similar...but that defeats the purpose of keeping it cheap :)

[Just Joel]

Sorry for digging this up with a simple question but how much lower did you weld the perch onto the housing over stock? Did you end up cutting the spring to lower it more afterwards?

 

Thanks

Joel

[mklotz70]

I set it in reference to the tire....I didn't measure it...sorry. If you look at the stamped lettering in this pic, you might get an idea. the blue line is where the perch went....so you can look at your housing and see how far your perch is above the lettering......maybe? :)

 

 

 

 

The ride height came out right where I wanted it....so I didn't go back and cut anything else.

[Just Joel]

Ok, thanks... is it safe to assume that the part # stamp stays pretty consistent?

 

Thanks

Joel

[mklotz70]

I would think so. Also....I'm pretty sure those tires are about 24" tall. If you're looking to go really low...you'll probably want to set them according to the height of your tires.

[Just Joel]

I'm actually planning on keeping it taller :P Only going a couple inches and avoiding the "raked" look ;) Oh and I'll be sure to check clearance on my tire height before I final weld everything...

 

Thanks

Joel

[mklotz70]

I typically prefer "level" too, but the slight rake fit the look of this car for now. These are just the stock struts that came with it. I have the 280zx struts waiting....or the 5lug 200sx struts that didn't sell. I'll decide which it gets once I get there :)

[Just Joel]

Yeah, I'm going a very similar rout... I'm going to modify the stock struts with 280zx inserts and eventually switch...

 

Thanks

Joel

[mklotz70]

I've been talking with another member about selling him the 200sx 5 lug struts. I dug some of my parts out and did some measurements and test fits more to prove that I couldn't use them, then to prove he could. Basically, it comes down to the fact that I really want to run the snowflakes and the 280zx setup is the best one to run with them. So...here's the info.

 

 

 

First off, the only real draw back to running the 200sx struts is that you need to get roll center adjusters(bumpsteer spacers) with a different diameter on the top. Or, you need an adapter ring to take up the difference in diameters between the steering arm boss and the strut mounting hole. Some guys run them with just the bolts....bad idea!!!

 

 

 

I did some backspacing comparisons with the different hubs. Keep in mind, that the 510 hubs only work on the 510 struts. The 200sx and 300zx hubs are interchangeable on the 200sx struts. 280zx hubs will fit the 200sx strut, but there's no way to get a caliper mounted...at least not any realistic way.

 

510 hub in snowflake rim. I simply went to the high point on the hub where the seal is......between the rims, I doubt there's more than a 1/16" difference using this as a reference.

 

 

...clearance to tube.

 

 

280zx hub in snowflake. This shows that these hubs pull the rim in a 3/8" from the stock 510 hubs. Good for the fender clearance with the snowflakes, but this is enough to make the 300zx rims hit the strut tube.

 

 

clearance to the tube

 

 

300zx 4 lug hub in snowflake. This setup pushes the rim out almost another 3/8" over the 510 hub. Wrong way for the snowflakes to clear the fender, but perfect if you run 300zx rims.

 

 

clearance to the tube

 

 

 

 

 

300zx rim on 300zx hub mounted on 200sx strut.

 

 

 

300zx rim backspacing

 

 

 

280zx hub on the 200sx strut. Not enough clearance for the caliper mounting tabs between the strut's caliper mounts and the rotor. Maybe...a 1/4" or 3/8" plate could be made to move the caliper to the other side, but it's not worth it to me. I might as well get camber/caster plates and gain some adjustability in the process.

 

 

 

 

 

The easiest thing for me to do would be to machine some rings for the bottom of the 200sx struts, run the 300zx hubs/rotors/rims and call it good. But...the point of working on the dang car is to make it what I want.....and I'm just not a fan of the 300zx rims...in fact I've got a set to sell :) ....so, I guess the 200sx stuff will go bye-bye :) Hope the info helps. Back to work.

[b210in]

klotz70,

 

i am currently swapping in 1983 280 zx struts into my 74 datsun b210. i already cut off the spring hats from my b210. i was planning on running the stock b210 spring in the 280zx strut. would you happen to know what other springs i can use that are stiffer and i can get from the bone yard and that will fit in the stock b210 spring hat? thank for your help

[thisismatt]

I couldn't really follow what you're trying to accomplish...? If just 4 lugs on 200sx struts, then why not the 4 lug 200sx struts? Also, like you found, the 280zx hubs will fit the 200sx spindle, but the inner bearing seal is the wrong size (280zx seal is bigger, assuming the 5 lug spindle is the same as the 4 lug spindle). Did you notice that with the ones you have? It might not be different enough to matter, but last time I tried the 200sx hub would not easily go onto the 280zx spindle because of the smaller 200sx seal inner diameter.