Snake pit - rhino built

[Rhino13]

Since you have the throttle shaft out already, might be a good time to install throttle shaft bearings. The shaft rides on the carb body and over time the body gets worn and causes vacuum leaks and shaft wobble and other issues. The bearings fix or prevent that issue because the bear the load. The carb body is cast for them and they even come installed on some race versions of the carbs.

 

Here's a link to them if you're interested.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=5949

 

YouTube also has a couple install videos that discuss the benefits of them.

Thank you for that info! I was thinking about the fact that the shaft may have a little play since it was pretty much seized, glad to know there's a fix if that's the case. I'm guessing you put them in place of the little black spacers?

[Lockleaf]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=abi40OrA8uY

 

This video will explain it far better than I can.

[720inOlyWa]

I bought those bearings, and I regretted it... sorta.

I did as told and fit them to my Weber 38, only to find that they made the shaft bind so badly that I switched out to different carb-  a 36/32 (and have not regretted that decision for a moment).

 

In my experience, the bearing press fit in okay, seated okay in the cups, but then bound once the shaft was inserted. No amount of polishing or reseating seemed to help, and there is no way to extract te bearings intact once they are seated. So I gave up and tossed the 38 into a box, marked ‘WTF 38‘.

 

I was also miffed that two tiny bearings cost 10 bucks apiece PLUS shipping. That was a total ripoff price. Now I just goose the area with carb and choke cleaner once in a while and all seems good.

[Rhino13]

Thanks for the tip OlyWa. I've had a Weber on a past 720 that had been on for years with no bearings and it was fine. Rebuilt it right when I got it and the shafts looked good.

I want to look more into them to see what they're about, right now I want to get the carb rebuilt and on the truck! Probably not before Canby since it's running good as it is.

[Lockleaf]

I've been running those exact bearings for over three years w out a single hiccup. For bearings to make the shaft bind, they would have to have some serious wobble in their seats or a killer mis alignment issue, serious enough that I would believe there was a further problem with that carb. That sucks that they were bad enough to make you remove the carb. I do agree on the price, and there are rc helicopter bearings that are the correct size if you look around and they are only like a buck a piece.

[Charlie69]

Shaft binding will happen with the plastic bushings or the roller bearings if the shaft nut holding the linkage is over tightened.  I run both the plastic bushing and the bearings.

[harlow426@mail.com]

Think I mentioned this 2 you already.....

Bought that carb because it had good throttle sh bushings, one in my driver at that time had wobbly shafts. I would not alter the factory shaft bores until wear evident. THEN it is a bitchin' idea. We can get choke 100% by fall~~~uwe will b fine if you remove choke butterflys or wire securely open 4 Canby.

Nice and cool outside. Just had 'lunch'. I ain't quittn' till the sun starts heating things back up.

[Rhino13]

After it soaked for a while I put it back together and there's no play in the shafts, both move really smooth. I removed the choke butterfly's, shaft, mechanism, and the rods that connect it to the throttle linkage. So choke hardware is non existent :)

 

Did you find that adapter plate Harlow? If so I'll throw it on before Canby, but it's running good enough to drive for an hour and a half with the stock. Still have to get the Weber gaskets.

[Rhino13]

Alright, Canby (uberkevin in particular) got me all excited about doing something to my truck that I've never done before. I have already been planning on an lz24, have a u67 lined up from Hobo to start the process. The more I read about the 24, the more I want to get a ka24e. My engine runs great, but with the z24 block possibly having cracks around the head bolts, it makes me not want to open it up before buying parts. But I also don't want to open it up months before I'll have money to get everything I'll need for the build, mainly because I don't have a place to store a shell.

 

I'm just curious what people's opinions are on these motors side by side and what's more worth it. I know I'd gain a lot of knowledge either way, but I feel that building a stroker would be more rewarding. This is going to be a long process, so any input is much appreciated.

[Charlie69]

Go KA you will be happy.

[Rhino13]

Alright, I've got a KA24e lined up to buy in the somewhat near future. It's getting a fresh rebuild before I pick it up though!

 

So now onto questions about the swap. Do I have to worry about any clearances? Will I need a custom length driveshaft? What are my options for motor mounts? I just started thinking through all of this so please chime in if you have any advice.

[Draker]

Damn baller

[Draker]

I believe you can still use the NAPZ tranny.. so that would mean the driveshaft would stay the same length.

[Rhino13]

I believe you can still use the NAPZ tranny.. so that would mean the driveshaft would stay the same length.

That's what I was just told, so that's a huge plus not having to find a trans/driveshaft. I found someone that did a de swap recently and they said to do egr delete and remove the front sway bar, but it's pretty plug and play.

 

I will be on the lookout for a wiring harness so I can run it with efi, I'm hoping I can graft it into my 720 harness so I can keep the inside stock. Any input on wiring is greatly appreciated, it's not my strong point.

[Draker]

You can wire it in with a few relays or you can buy a CAN/AM box and wire it in to anything. You'll need a wiring harness still.

 

EGR delete is a good idea. Less BS to mess around with.

 

Good bye carbs, choke, cold mornings, and plugged jets.... hello power.

[Rhino13]

I'll need any harness or I'll need a ka harness? I'd like to keep the interior pretty much stock. I guess it wouldn't be a bad thing to modernize it a bit, I'm just thinking it'd be cheaper to stay stock. I've heard of the can/am boxes, is it pretty much all the relays you need to run the motor?

 

Yeah I'm stoked to have efi, I definitely need to read into it more so I can troubleshoot it myself when the time comes.

[Draker]

KA harness, and yes 3 relays to make it run. There is more to it than that but I'll let ya search it out. I gotta do the same for my 2dr 510.

[Rhino13]

I'll be on the lookout for a harness then.

 

So in other news, after retorquing my head bolts my engine leaks. Torqued them all to 60 ft lbs, but the back two needed more. They cracked loose the hardest and felt much more loose when it got to 60.

 

It also looks like my trans may leak since coming home from Canby, but it's hard to tell because it looks and smells like engine oil. I'm thinking the motor just leaked a bit on the way home with the wind pushing it back onto the trans. I need to change the fluid soon anyway so I'll check it out, the only time I checked it, it was full.

[datzenmike]

Yes, KA and Z series engines will bolt up and work on the same transmissions.

 

LZ24 would be the easiest to build but you would also need to lean the engine into the L series position to orient the manifolds properly. You would need L series engine brackets and an L series front case swap on the transmission. For this you could run a simple carb and distributor and have a better breathing torquey 2.4 liter engine.

 

KA means converting the fuel system over to EFI. You would need a high pressure fuel pump, all the EFI sensors, (working) wiring and ECU connected and a CAS in place of the distributor. KA engine brackets and mounts. For this you do get EFI mileage, better running and starts when cold and good performance.  Farmer Joe has a KA that runs on carb and electronic distributor. Possibly more problematic but equally easier to work on....

[Rhino13]

Thanks for the thorough input Mike. Didn't get a chance to meet you at Canby, I hope your road trip was awesome!

 

I definitely like the lz because of the carbs, but I'm looking forward to learning more about efi. I'm also not really in a hurry, I've got another car to drive while my truck is down. So I can take my time finding a good working wiring harness, ECU, and a new fuel pump. Not sure if sensors or CAS is included, but I am getting the intake with efi parts, and exhaust manifold so hopefully they'll be included as well.

 

Can you explain how the CAS differs from an electronic distributor?

Does the ka sit at a different angle than a napz motor?

What psi will my fuel pump need to be?

 

I want to gather everything needed before I take my z24 out so any input is appreciated!

[Lockleaf]

Ka and Z sit the same in the engine bay. CAS on a KAE is built in to the distributor, but it still runs a distributor. SRs and some other early Nissan engines that use coil packs had a CAS that fit just like the distributor. Basically it was all the "where is the engine at" parts of the distributor and none of the "where do I send spark" parts. You need fuel pressure in the 40s psi wise.

[datzenmike]

Dam library, damn internet explorer!!! Can't quote. First line in last reply.... Z and KA engines fit the same transmission.

 

The CAS is an optical sensor on a disc marked with 360 degree marks and four 90 degree marks. This info is sent to the ECU to decode exactly and precisely where the crank is in relation to everything else. With all the other inputs from sensors, the timing advance can be computed and the coil fired. The rotor and cap function just like a regular distributor. There was even one used on the Z24i engines in the D-21 Hardbody. The oil pump/distributor spindle has a spline on the end to mate to the bottom of the CAS. This further eliminates ANY looseness or slop between them and assures precise spark timing not attainable on a points or EI distributor.

[Rhino13]

So is it only used when you start it, then the distributor acts as normal? Or is it constantly adjusting the timing?

[Draker]

It's used to fire your plugs and injectors when the engine is running. It doesn't adjust the timing, you do that by moving the dizzy/cas.

[Rhino13]

I'm a very visual learner so it's tough for me to picture all of this when I'm not familiar and don't have an example to check out.

 

I think I've got a pretty good handle on it, though I was really confused that moving the distributor wouldn't adjust timing still, but I was just took it the wrong way.

 

It works inline with the distributor right? So the distributor acts as normal and the CAS produces a readout so the engine knows to adjust when you throttle up and down? If I'm still missing this I may have to hold off on questions until someone can show me in person.