VK56de into a 510 Question

[DRIVEN]

I know you've probably heard enough opinions already but I'll just ad a couple more points.

1.  Sometimes the proven/easy swaps make the most sense.

2.  Sometimes "being different" isn't a good enough reason.

3.  Resale plans?

Here's my personal situation;  I did a non-Nissan swap in my 510.  In the end I'm happy enough with the results but I could have just used a KA and probably saved a few bucks and some time to get almost the exact same results.  Sure, I have something "different" but is anyone actually impressed?  Maybe...I doubt it.  The big thing is, if I ever decide to sell it, I've probably severely limited my pool of potential buyers.  I knew all of these things going in but since I have no plans to sell, it's not a big deal to me.

 

Just a couple things to consider.  Good luck with whatever you decide.

[MikeRL411]

.

 

Talk about name dropping.

 

The only sensible V8 is the all aluminum Buick/Olds 215.  Not reallyy powerful but it's light and small won't fuck up the handling much and you get the V8 sound.

 

This engine was also used in the regretable TR8 roadster [the epitome of what an English roadster should not be].  The only good thing I have to say is that thanks to Triumph, you have another source of exhaust manifolds to accomplish a successful transplant with out butchering your front inner fender panels.  A judicous combination of Buick, Olds and Triumph exhaust manifolds can make a good fit in many cars and trucks.  Needless to say right and left manifolds are seldom from the same make or year in order to acomplish this.   Good luck, get an Alfa Romeo 4 leaf clover fender decal, you'll need it.  "You bought an Alfa?  Good luck!"

[Monacar]

Why does it seem like your automotive expertise is measured in the amount of posts you have on this forum? You know there are a lot of people that don't spend as much time racking up posts on ratsun as they do in their garages, it doesn't mean that they are amateurs. I take this as an open invitation to "flame" me since I only have a couple posts too.

[Tristin]

Why does it seem like your automotive expertise is measured in the amount of posts you have on this forum? You know there are a lot of people that don't spend as much time racking up posts on ratsun as they do in their garages, it doesn't mean that they are amateurs. I take this as an open invitation to "flame" me since I only have a couple posts too.

 

It has nothing to do with post count. It has to do with fitting a VK into a 510... please keep up. 

[Monacar]

worst statement iver heard from someone that claims to "do this for a living" comments like that are what give people the courage to go buy a harbor frieght welder and cut off wheel and start cutting rust free rare datsun to do extreme body mods with nor actual skill, start making there own suspension setups with no under standing of instant centers, roll center, anti squat, ackerman, bumb steer, caster , camber, proper shcok location, or effective shock angle and how it decreesed dramaticlly the more angle you put on it just to name a few things.... not everyone is a fabricator. i used o spend day after day working on hack job sand cars that people built trying to fix them, some coming from well known shops that have a huge name in the industry  simply caue the stufflooks flashy and they claim its built right. i know thatt a lil off topic but that comment just struck a cord with me... everyone thinking they are a fabricator is what makes it hard for me to get a customer to spend the 1400 on a full cage or 800 on a fully tig welded stainless mandrel bent exhaust becasue they can spend the same amount on cheap tools and material and build a cage with a "smash bender" for exhaust and show up at the track in a car that will hurt them in a crash more than save them.... ive given customers quotes only to see their car months later completed in their own garage and it is just garbage.....just cause you buy the tools doesnt mean you can  do it, and i know you said that, but alot of guys are gonna skip that line cause you already told them they are a fabricator...

 

/rant

 

 

btw anyone know how a 510 handles with a 80% weight biasing to the front coming into a corner?.......

Where does it say anything about 510 or vk? I must have missed it

[Monacar]

Not the first "we are better mechanics than you" post I've seen here and I'm sure it won't be the last.

[Monacar]

I will make sure to scan my ASE certs up so I don't get flamed if I ever decide to post a project of mine, which i probably never will.

[q-tip]

Fuckin go for it, if the added weight seems to be a problem set the motor back in the car, Pete Brock did it with datzilla. And you get that awesome v8 sound....mmmm....

[DRIVEN]

Not sure where all that came from.  And no, post count doesn't equal expertise.   Look through the project section and you'll see build threads that go for dozens of pages but no real work gets done.  Others do a whole car in under 10 pages.  Some people do work and some people talk about work.  Some do both.  This thread started as a "thinking out loud" post about a VK in a 510.  Opinions were shared.  Input was given.  Welcome to the internet.

[Monacar]

i guess i'm just from a different time when you didn't have to give your tool inventory, experience,  and tell "how deep your pockets are." before you could talk cars with people. this is the era of the internet though.  and thanks for the welcome, i will see myself to the door.

[datzenmike]

Where does it say anything about 510 or vk? I must have missed it

.

It's in the title of this discussion.

 

 

 

Why does it seem like your automotive expertise is measured in the amount of posts you have on this forum? You know there are a lot of people that don't spend as much time racking up posts on ratsun as they do in their garages, it doesn't mean that they are amateurs. I take this as an open invitation to "flame" me since I only have a couple posts too.

.

Well, having read 10 posts for every one I have made I can say with some confidence that...

 

1/ There are an infinite number of ways to fuck this up and only a few to get it right.

 

2/ On any failed motor swap, be it a 510 or anything else....... it's the motor that always survives the ordeal.

 

3/ The simpler the swap and better the chances of a successful outcome.

 

 

 

Now you, may have the automotive expertise to pull this off. Perhaps the OP may too... I have no idea, but I do know and have seen many of the infinite number of wrong ways to do this and the car does not survive.

 

 

Everyone will agree that any motor can be made to fit a 510. But should it? A VK56DE successfully swapped would be almost undrivable.

[Monacar]

worst statement iver heard from someone that claims to "do this for a living" comments like that are what give people the courage to go buy a harbor frieght welder and cut off wheel and start cutting rust free rare datsun to do extreme body mods with nor actual skill, start making there own suspension setups with no under standing of instant centers, roll center, anti squat, ackerman, bumb steer, caster , camber, proper shcok location, or effective shock angle and how it decreesed dramaticlly the more angle you put on it just to name a few things.... not everyone is a fabricator. i used o spend day after day working on hack job sand cars that people built trying to fix them, some coming from well known shops that have a huge name in the industry  simply caue the stufflooks flashy and they claim its built right. i know thatt a lil off topic but that comment just struck a cord with me... everyone thinking they are a fabricator is what makes it hard for me to get a customer to spend the 1400 on a full cage or 800 on a fully tig welded stainless mandrel bent exhaust becasue they can spend the same amount on cheap tools and material and build a cage with a "smash bender" for exhaust and show up at the track in a car that will hurt them in a crash more than save them.... ive given customers quotes only to see their car months later completed in their own garage and it is just garbage.....just cause you buy the tools doesnt mean you can  do it, and i know you said that, but alot of guys are gonna skip that line cause you already told them they are a fabricator...

 

/rant

 

 

btw anyone know how a 510 handles with a 80% weight biasing to the front coming into a corner?.......

I quoted this because this is where I see no reference to a vk outside of the last sentence. Just someone talking down to someone they don't know, while talking themselves up. I am not trying to make any enemies or friends here I am just saying that it seems like ther are some members here that are quick to dismiss everyone who wants to bullshit about doing something different as some 16 year punk who needs a good talking to. I don't care if he wants to put a jet engine in the thing, he isn't asking you for instructions. It was already said that he was just thinking out loud. All I am saying is if you don't agree but feel compelled to comment it would be a nice gesture to not be condescending and talk about how you are so sick of fixing amatuers fuck ups all day. I don't know the OP but he seems to use a little more tact than others have been using toward him, but maybe I would be the same way if I read over 360,000 posts.

[Kazumi_510]

Monacar and DRIVEN you guys rock. You guys understand the roots of this discussion or brain storm rather, I just want to see where the other nissan/ datsun owners stand on such a cool but ridiculous idea of mine. In any project there is a long road of research and realistic decisions to be made.

[Monacar]

For the record I also think this swap would be a bad idea. Sorry

[Kazumi_510]

You guys and your thoughts be it negative and positive have actually helped me and if I was heart set on doing a V8 swap in my poor miss treated Datsun it would be more likely that I would go with the buick or the toyo 1UZ because on a side note, I'm an accomplished mechanic and I value the ability to maintain and find spare parts. Obviously anything originally produced in the USDM would be most ideal versus doing some sort of bad ass exotic engine that you have to spend more for parts then the engine is worth. I have some experience in this area with my SR's, even as abundant as they have become over the past 10 years or so in the states. As any of us oldskool enthusiasts know its the little things that kill you and make your pride and joy collect dust as your trying to source an alternator or even belts and gaskets.

[Kazumi_510]

Oh yea I know its a stretch at best it would make for one wicked drag car but other then that I don't see much of a practical application. Also from the research I've been able to dig up on the VK its just a huge heavy ass piece of awesome nissan engineering.

[Kazumi_510]

I'm going to look around and see if I can find a source on 510 engine bay envelopes and if nothing turns up I will measure mine in the next couple days and post my findings/ measurements for all to have as general knowledge  

[Stupid_fast]

Someone already tried it, and posted pics, the VH45 is wider than the 510's strut towers. 

 

isnt the VK56 bigger?

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/14993-just-fooling-around-vh45de-in-the-engine-bay/

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/29434-510-vh45de-swap/

 

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/31786-vk45de-210/

[flatcat19]

Oh yea I know its a stretch at best it would make for one wicked drag car but other then that I don't see much of a practical application. Also from the research I've been able to dig up on the VK its just a huge heavy ass piece of awesome nissan engineering.

 

Um...The VK is a dog turd. Huge motor, not enough power.

You can achieve the same anount of power from a VQ with I/H/E.

 

You must be really good at what you do to just throw money away.

VK will not work.

 

Now, to keep from an exotic, expensive to maintain engine...VQ35DE, QR25DE or KA(E or DE) are all viable/doable.

Want to really give people a hard-on with your prowess? VQ37DE VVEL. Period.

[Master-O-Turbonics]

All you need to do it is a tube frame, then its a bolt-in deal.

[DRIVEN]

If you like the idea of a small light V8, you might consider the AJ-series used by Jaguar/Ford/Lincoln/Rover/Aston Martin.  I'd call it a 7/8 scale version of a DOHC Modular Ford.  Even though they share no common parts, the design is very similar.  Depending on the version, most USDM options were 280-300hp with a 390hp supercharged version available.  I had an S-type with the 300hp version that ran really well.  It's all aluminum, front sump, and has a low profile intake.  It'd be fun in a 510.

[72240z]

I like the AJ too, its similar to a ford modular because its a ford engine lol. It was even used in the thunderbird and LS. 

The one used in the vantage is a whole different beast. 

Its been on my list of options for my s30 but manual transmission options are very limited or expensive 

[DRIVEN]

Jaguar engineers claim it was their clean-sheet design but there's no way you can convince me they didn't "borrow" just about everything from the DOHC Mod which was produced 3 years earlier.  "Corporate" is probably a better term -- much like the 3.0 Duratec or GM's Ecotec.  Same engines used under many badges.

[72240z]

I wish jag wasnt so snobby about manual boxes because they have so many awesome power plants. 

[DRIVEN]

I'm sure there's a way to make it happen.