LZ Losing power and Overheating

[hang_510]

unknown - JY motor. was FI

 

pic is after the holes were drilled

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I noticed a lot of you guys run projected tip spark plugs, as denoted by the "P" in the part number.

 

Don't. They promote detonation.

 

Instead of a BPR7ES, just get a BR7ES, or even better, a B7ES. You probably don't need the resistor either.

[datzenmike]

I run BPR6ES because that's what's recommended. It's not a race car or anything.

[Sealik]

unknown - JY motor. was FI

 

pic is after the holes were drilled

 

Yes....the late '82 Z22E.....S110

Looks like that deck/block formation was carried over to the Z24..unlike the Z22S 720 truck block

 

I noticed a lot of you guys run projected tip spark plugs, as denoted by the "P" in the part number.

 

Don't. They promote detonation.

 

Instead of a BPR7ES, just get a BR7ES, or even better, a B7ES. You probably don't need the resistor either.

 

Above what CR?...running premium gas?

 

Also......some of us like those local ('resistor') radio stations.... :)

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Recommended by whom? I bet the engine's not stock...neither then should be your plugs. If you're maximizing your timing curve and total timing or if you've got increased compression ratio, these are reason enough to change to a non projected tip plug.

 

I don't recommend things that haven't been tested or proven.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Above what CR?...running premium gas?

 

Also......some of us like those local ('resistor') radio stations.... :)

Anything above stock compression, or let's say 9:1, but factor in what I stated above about timing too.

 

Fine, use the resistor plugs, but ditch the P.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I don't recommend things that haven't been tested or proven.

OK...I usually don't.

 

I can't believe I just quoted myself. I've hit a new low.

[Xnke]

No reason at all to avoid a projected tip plug. It's basically the same as running about 4* of timing, according to many dyno tests. I run a projected tip plug, it runs cleaner, is harder to foul, and according to some provides a more ideal combustion chamber dynamic. I'm not sold on that last point, though. I do have better luck getting a smooth idle with them, though.

 

If I run BR6ES plugs, I run 38* of timing. If I run BPR6ES plugs, I run 34* of timing, and make the same power. I had a hard time keeping the non-projected tip plugs from fouling out at idle with the lopey cam, the projected tip plug had no issues with it.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

No reason at all to avoid a projected tip plug. It's basically the same as running about 4* of timing, according to many dyno tests. I run a projected tip plug, it runs cleaner, is harder to foul, and according to some provides a more ideal combustion chamber dynamic. I'm not sold on that last point, though. I do have better luck getting a smooth idle with them, though.

 

If I run BR6ES plugs, I run 38* of timing. If I run BPR6ES plugs, I run 34* of timing, and make the same power. I had a hard time keeping the non-projected tip plugs from fouling out at idle with the lopey cam, the projected tip plug had no issues with it.

That is not my experience.

[Z-train]

That is not my experience.

X2

[metalmonkey47]

FIGURED IT OUT.

 

 

^^^DONE DONE DONE.

 

 

Not gonna go back and respond to everything because it's now irrelevant.

 

 

Overheating Fixed By:

 

-Decreasing heat range on plugs to a B9ES (3 points colder) based on 620turbo's recommendation. Huge help!

-Increase secondary & primary jets to 160 from 140

-Decrease IGN timing to about 8 degree's @ 1000rpm idle. Having issues in that department, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

I WILL be going wideband O2 down the road when I update my exhaust configuration, but I need to figure out how to wire that up... '02 VW 1.8T Upstream O2 is a wideband, and runs about $50 so i'll end up using that on a generic gauge. 

 

The head has about 500 miles on it, and they haven't yet been adjusted since we put the motor in. (They were perfect before) but I'll follow up with a valve adjustment when I do my compression test in a few weeks. 

 

The 32/36 is going to KICK ROCKS. I hate it for power. The motor can't breath past 6000 and starts to choke right at 6000. I'm looking at a set of SU's or maybe a single 45 DCOE.

 

NOW. the moment of truth....

 

The very same reason my L20B made 52HP is the same reason my LZ has been shit. 

 

-Throttle cable was binding at the linkage and wasn't pulling the secondary open hardly at all. I looked at it before and could swear it was opening all the way, but maybe I'm just being retarded. I leaned on it by accident and found the cable was loose. Had my brother mash down his foot while the truck was off and found I wasn't getting about 1/4 of the throttle open!! Re-adjusted and viola! Instant HP. 

 

I'm so satisfied! Did a gnarly burnout last night, and found that I can chirp third with minimal effort. This thing is a torque monster.

 

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Only issue I'm having now is that the truck stumbles when you jump on the throttle from about 3-5000RPM. I think it may be running a little lean, so I'm gonna look at the plugs. I've thought about increasing the jets to 170's, but I gotta check the air jets first. Any input on this issue?

[68Datsun510]

Didn't read any of the thread.

 

 

32/36 on 2.2 liter? running lean.  140 jets are about for a stock or cammed 2 liter!!

 

 

Have you tuned the idle circuit yet?  DGV tuning starts with the idle jets, main jets, then air jets.  Follow this or you will never get it tuned right. 

 

try  main jets at 160/150 or so.  Look up DGV tuning, main should be bigger than secondary. 

 

 

Rich is better than blowing something up running lean.

 

 

 

 

 

What??? My DGV jets have a 140 main and 170 secondary...

[banzai510(hainz)]

I dont think a stock Hitachi is going to flow much more. 6k cutting out is about normal I would think.

 

most webers are 140mains(fuel)

[datzenmike]

A lot of things conspire to limit flow at 6K. Port size, downdrafts with 90 degree bend, valve size, cam. If you do get it to go to 7k you will probably make it run like shit lower down where you drive it 99% of the time.

[metalmonkey47]

A lot of things conspire to limit flow at 6K. Port size, downdrafts with 90 degree bend, valve size, cam. If you do get it to go to 7k you will probably make it run like shit lower down where you drive it 99% of the time.

 

Understandable. The carb has GOT to be limiting me. 1 5/8 intake ports with matched U67 intake, L28 valves, cam is 275 degrees at .025"lift, 250 degrees at .050" lift and .475" lift at zero lash.

 

Wondering if what's limiting me may be more to do with the jetting still. Like above, I'm getting stumbling when I open the throttle all the way. Whenever the secondary opens, I can feel it lag a little bit, and it doesn't feel like I'm doing much better. 

[izzo]

^^^

 

-Throttle cable was binding at the linkage and wasn't pulling the secondary open hardly at all. I looked at it before and could swear it was opening all the way, but maybe I'm just being retarded.

 

 

 

I'd go with you being retarded :rofl:  JK!! Good job man.  Set the carb to 1.21 dildonaughts and it should run better.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Be nice if you had a 38/38 to bolt on there

[metalmonkey47]

I've thought about that, but some SUs or DCOEs are the direction I'm leaning. I just wanna get as much power out of the 32/36 as I can for now

[Stupid_fast]

 

Only issue I'm having now is that the truck stumbles when you jump on the throttle from about 3-5000RPM. I think it may be running a little lean, so I'm gonna look at the plugs. I've thought about increasing the jets to 170's, but I gotta check the air jets first. Any input on this issue?

I never got rid of throttle stumble by playing with main jets.  Gets too rich before it'll go away. 

 

Play with the airs, then start upping the pump jet. 

 

Screw single DCOE setups ... go duals or go home from what i've heard.  That motor can probably take twin 45's.  But thats just a guess.

 

 

 

 

 

What??? My DGV jets have a 140 main and 170 secondary...

Its what i've read from every weber tuning source I could find online.  If yours runs right like that w/e I dunno.  Never got that bitch to run right on my motor.

 

I dont think a stock Hitachi is going to flow much more. 6k cutting out is about normal I would think.

 

most webers are 140mains(fuel)

 

140 main jet with a 2 liter maybe, not a cammed 2.3...?

[fisch]

Hmmm you guys are worrying me. The A/F meter on my LZ22 with 46mm SUs is pegged all the way lean. I mean all the way. I just thought this meant I was getting good gas mileage, LOL!

 

Car seems to be running OK, but has sat for 2 years. I've touched nothing on the carbs, and know the PO could drive this thing all over the country with no problems.

 

Is there any reason it would run all the way lean just from sitting? Or more likely is the culprit that the sensor is dead in the muffler?

 

I know nothing of AF meters and SU carbs. But he intake did feel pretty warm on last idle. Sorry for the hijack MM.

[Sealik]

Hmmm you guys are worrying me. The A/F meter on my LZ22 with 46mm SUs is pegged all the way lean. I mean all the way. I just thought this meant I was getting good gas mileage, LOL!

 

Car seems to be running OK, but has sat for 2 years. I've touched nothing on the carbs, and know the PO could drive this thing all over the country with no problems.

 

Is there any reason it would run all the way lean just from sitting? Or more likely is the culprit that the sensor is dead in the muffler?

 

I know nothing of AF meters and SU carbs. But he intake did feel pretty warm on last idle. Sorry for the hijack MM.

 

This is a wideband....?

Pull the sensor from the bung and re-calibrate in fresh air, just to confirm the accuracy...errr... lean conditions.

Should be a how to online for your 'model'

[fisch]

This is a wideband....?

Pull the sensor from the bung and re-calibrate in fresh air, just to confirm the accuracy...errr... lean conditions.

Should be a how to online for your 'model'

Thanks Sealik! I have a printout that says it is a Halmeter AF10, which a quick google is suggesting isn't very accurate. It is a row of LED lights from red to yellow to green.

 

Would it even run if the meter is pegged all the way lean?

 

I've read that most likely the car needs to be warm for it to read. But it was. I also just changed the fuel filter, (old gas) which could make it lean. I will pull the plugs and see if they are white or wet or toasty brown. The sensor seems impossibly hard to reach, pointed straight up into the trans tunnel. I can barely get a hand on it. Might have to remove a section of pipe to get at it.

[Sealik]

Thanks Sealik! I have a printout that says it is a Halmeter AF10, which a quick google is suggesting isn't very accurate. It is a row of LED lights from red to yellow to green.

 

Would it even run if the meter is pegged all the way lean?

 

I've read that most likely the car needs to be warm for it to read. But it was. I also just changed the fuel filter, (old gas) which could make it lean. I will pull the plugs and see if they are white or wet or toasty brown. The sensor seems impossibly hard to reach, pointed straight up into the trans tunnel. I can barely get a hand on it. Might have to remove a section of pipe to get at it.

 

 

Sounds like a narrow band...who knows their interpretation of LED lights relative to actual A/F ratio numbers.

Mine reads within 5+ secs..... after the heater warms the sensor

Innovate LC-1...about 200 bucks.

Displays 10-20...A/F ratios

 

Engine will run with excessive lean conditions....but..... that is not good.

 

 

I had mid 9s at WOT.

With the wideband I was able to profile some larger needles to 12.3ish,... at WOT.

That said... my idle is now, much rich at 10.5..lol

Oh well....can't please 'everybody'

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

140 main jet with a 2 liter maybe, not a cammed 2.3...?

Larger bore motors need to be force fed fuel, especially when running a DGV. You can't compare jets from a 1.9 to jetting in a 2.3 and expect it to run at all. Cam, porting, exhaust as well as climate and altitude all factor in heavily.

 

My point is, don't trust what someone else is doing, try it for yourself. A rule of thumb for safe carb tuning: add fuel first, then start adding air.

[Z-train]

 

 

 

This is th pull for my LZ-23.Notice the rock solid AFR.Also,this is thru a L-18 Manifold.THe 32/36 should support 6K+

 

 

 

 

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