"matching numbers" worth anything?

[Stitebunny]

I have a fairly original and in decent shape 1970 510 wagon.  I'd like to swap out at least the head for a little more performance as it's pretty slow.  It also has an automatic transmission which helps with it's slowness, but I like that for commuting.  So my question is, if I ever went to sell it, would anybody care if it had the original head on it, or at least available to go with the car?  I don't plan on selling it, but just something that crossed my mind.

Thanks for any input.

Chris

[darc510]

I'd say no, because so many owners are either upgrading to newer motors or massaging the ones they have (which are prob mismatched anyways)...didn't even cross my mind when i bought mine.

You're talking about a 40+ year old car, those motors (no matter how bad we want them to) aren't going to last forever, but they'll get pretty dang close. :thumbup:  Unless you think your car will end up at a Barret-Jackson auction...don't sweat it. But, don't toss parts...you may need them to revert back for reliability once you start switching stuff out. 

[Z chopper]

well to serious collectors originality is a plus but for ratsunites it is a different story

[MicroMachinery]

Depends on who you sell it to. If I have numbers matching anything, I try to keep the set complete as long as is sane to do.

As far as the head, it won't have the same ID number that the engine block does. You could swap it and hold onto it just so you could call it the original head, in the even that it becomes either a show car, or sold to someone who wants an "original" 70 510 wagon. Keep in mind, that these cars are classics now, so to find a numbers matching Datsun is becoming as rare(probably rarer) as finding a numbers matching American classic car..

The majority of my Datsuns are "matching", and I plan to keep them that way. If I were to do a newer engine swap, I'd certainly hold onto what came out, in the event of a sale or for future worth. I also make provision to be able to switch back to original condition(I don't mutilate my cars).

[datzenmike]

There is no performance head for the L16. All have larger combustion chambers and this will drop your compression. I would leave that alone.

 

The L20B cam has the same specs as the L16SSS cam and should be easy enough to find one. It increases the lift from 0.390" to 0.413". Get the lifters and lash pads and keep in order.

[Z chopper]

There is no performance head for the L16. All have larger combustion chambers and this will drop your compression. I would leave that alone.

A peanut head would raise compression and the combustion chambers are smaller than the stock open chamber.

[Laecaon]

A peanut head would raise compression and the combustion chambers are smaller than the stock open chamber.

 

Nerp.

 

A 210 head has a 39cc combustion chamber. A CC head has 41CC. A peanut head will lower compression.

[Guest 510kamikazifreak]

Nerp.

 

A 210 head has a 39cc combustion chamber. A CC head has 41CC. A peanut head will lower compression.

 

Forgetting the 210 closed chambered?

[yellowdatsun]

Realistically, no. The only ones I see even having a remote chance of matching numbers being a big deal would be like extremely low production number 240Z's, or maybe the ultra low mileage 280ZX's you see once in a while. It's not just a Ratsun thing, Datsun people in general just aren't picky like that. Nothing like the classic American car thing. But we are talking about Datsuns worth $5-10K, versus some American classics worth $100+k. People expect a lot more when spending that kind of money.

 

Is it cool? Sure. Does it add money? Probably not, unless it's stupidly minty original. Since your car is "fairly original and in decent shape" it's not going to matter one bit.

[Laecaon]

Forgetting the 210 closed chambered?

 

The semi peanut 210, which is the most common 210 head to find, I have 2 sitting on my bench, have 39cc combustion chambers. 

 

Im not forgetting the 210 Closed Chamber, but its still not desireable, so I cant find any info about it. 

[Guest 510kamikazifreak]

The semi peanut 210, which is the most common 210 head to find, I have 2 sitting on my bench, have 39cc combustion chambers. 

 

Im not forgetting the 210 Closed Chamber, but its still not desireable, so I cant find any info about it. 

 

From the dq

 

 

The early 210 head can be an effective starting point for a performance engine needing the small combustion chambers for high compression if you are willing to install larger valve seats, larger valves, and port-out the intakes. The small intake ports cannot be enlarged to the size of some of the other available head castings but the small ports do give more starting material when porting. The shape of the port can be more extensively re-contoured in the hands of a knowledgeable engine builder to achieve good flow while retaining intake velocity at lower RPM, resulting in a strong street engine.

[datzenmike]

A peanut head would raise compression and the combustion chambers are smaller than the stock open chamber.

 

 

Nerp.

 

A 210 head has a 39cc combustion chamber. A CC head has 41CC. A peanut head will lower compression.

 

 

Forgetting the 210 closed chambered?

 

Rare as rocking horse shit, expen$ive no gain unless running flattop pistons, cam and multi carbs. It's also on an automatic which will gobble up gains anyway. Stick with the stock head. Keep it simple.

[Guest 510kamikazifreak]

Rare as rocking horse shit, expen$ive no gain unless running flattop pistons, cam and multi carbs. It's also on an automatic which will gobble up gains anyway. Stick with the stock head. Keep it simple.

 

 

Not really rare, I have had several go through my hands in the many years I have been into 510's

[crackerjack69]

Changing your stock head for another stock head will not make a difference you can notice. Noticeable difference can be had by port work, cam upgrade, and carburator upgrade.

[racerx]

No I don't think matching numbers or parts will matter much. I think it's cool to find one but rare.  Heck even Fords don't have matching numbers.  Most Datsun owners have changed engines, trannys, parts so many times..from L16 to KA to SR, VGs, some even have V-8s.  I think what matters is if it's straight, hardly any rust and clean title  from the buyers standpoint.

[67_1600]

I think it's cool to find one but rare.

To me, this is the reason to keep a numbers matching car just that - you rarely see them because everyone is in a hurry to do some kind of swap. The problem is that right now a car with a well done swap is going to be worth more to the typical buyer than something with numbers matching. There are buyers who would pay a premium for numbers matching but my guess is that they're far outnumbered by buyers who couldn't care less.

 

If it were my car, I'd keep that engine and transmission, even if just sitting in a corner in a garage. My gut tells me that at some point those few original cars will catch up to the swapped cars. I think the old Mustangs and Camaros are good examples - lots of people were doing all kinds of upgrades on those (manifold, carb, headers, etc.) and now those parts that people used to throw away are worth decent money as people want to make their modded/swapped car original again.

[crackerjack69]

Kind of like how all the imported "low mileage" motors came over here with SU's, and people tossed them in the garbage. Now they sell for $300+. It's best to hoard as many Datsun parts as you are capable of storing. My friend has a Nissan Altima, circa 1999. He came over asking me to do a tune-up, which I did. Noticed the wire for his horn had blown itself off the connector. He's like "The horn hasn't worked since I bought the car". I put a new connector on the wire and plugged her in, no joy. Ohmed the horn to find it open. Pulled a 40 year old Datto horn out of a box in the garage. Worked like a charm. What cracks me up, I just moved and my tool chest was still buried in the darkest corner of the truck. Had to haul out a shitload of boxes of random datto parts just to get to my tools (truck has a canopy) so I could grab a long extension to change his spark plugs. He asked me "Why do you keep all that garbage?". To ice the cake, we found a missing bolt in his hood latch which caused the hood to not close properly, and was screwing the latch up since he just slams it a bunch of times till it latches. I dug in one of my boxes of garbage and viola, found a perfect bolt and fixed the issue. <---- End rant.

 

Point of the story, as a few others have also mentioned, if you gonna start pulling the OG parts off your ride make sure you keep them somewhere safe and dry. You'll hate yourself down the road if you realize you tossed some datto "garbage" and end up needing it later, and can't find a replacement to save your life. <--- Actual end of rant.

[datzenmike]

So so true. Save everything you can.

[Stitebunny]

Thanks for all of the discussion.  I agree with most people that it won't add much if any value to the car for several years.  Maybe as it gets older and they become even more rare as has been mentioned. I definitely won't throw anything away. I've made that mistake before and learned from it!  At this point I'll probably just leave it alone and drive it.  I was wrong in thinking a different head would increase performance.  Thanks for teaching more about Datsuns! 

[MikeRL411]

When I bought my RL411 I realized it was a comparitively rare variant of a low production run vehicle.  Every factory original part that I have replaced over the years, down to the original spark plugs and their wiring harness, is safely stored in a box.  I could have this car in as delivered condition in an afternoon.  Why?  Because I wanted to!

[racerx]

This is how they do this in the P.I or Cuba where car parts are hard to find or just way too expensive. People have learned that in order for one to keep their rides going they keep their old stuff, modify a part and somehow make it work. They don't throw anything away.  I think it's neat because people will become very creative, specially when they come together and share their stuff/ideas like the voltage regulator for the fuel/temp. gauge or the R1 carbs.n  I'm still keeping my tired L16 and banged up fender, who knows maybe I can scavenged it later, later.

[Ratwagon1600]

well to serious collectors originality is a plus but for ratsunites it is a different story

I've come in late (sort of) on this thread and I couldn't agree with Z chopper more.

 

In upside down land :) , ultra stock Datsuns with matching numbers are generally only worth more to serious collectors.

 

Once a car has been modified in any way, the relative value of it reduces proportionally.

 

Can't comment on what happens North of the a equator of course.

[MikeRL411]

When every body else has "improved" their vehicle beyond recognition the unmolested versions wil suddenly rise to the top,  Cream does rise to the top, not only crap,  The whole world does NOT clean out cesspools.

[K_trip]

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