Hydrogen Generators

[wayno]

I agree with the full electric, it does have limitations, but for around where you live, it can hardly be beat.

[wayno]

Why create electricity to convert to hydrogen to burn when you can just drive an electric car? My bro dailies his electric. It yields 250 miles for the price of one gallon. It also looks bitchen!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is he using for batterys?

[mellotrongirl]

Is the car lowered, or is it the weight of the batteries (ha! sorry...had to ask)

 

My 620 has 20 6v flooded lead acid batteries...6 under the hood and 14 under the bed for a nice balanced ride--two extra leaf springs, lo-resistance tires, beefed bearing wheels & air-assisted brakes. Drawback--it's nearly a half-ton more than the curb weight of a conventional stock '78 KC, but it still accelerates & goes as fast as any gasser

 

Someone else posted a YT video of their recent 620 conversion within the last month...no info on when it was completed or where it is.

[ggzilla]

It's true that a car can be powered by solar-powered hydrogen, it's called a fuel cell.

 

 

Nothing like having a 'great invention' and then choosing not to use it

Been happening for years, certain unname parties pay inventors to not use them. The inventor has to sign a secrecy clause so it doesn't get public.

[mellotrongirl]

But really, tho'...don't expect to do a conversion & turn right around and flip it for a profit--esp. in these days when a lot of alt.energy new vehicles are entering the marketplace. And if you keep it--it'll be a loooong time before you recoup the energy savings from all the time and expense incured in its creation; if you do at all. I did mine just for the rebellious independent spirit. I'm already losing serious range from an old and expensive battery pack, and little nickle-and-dime stuff is popping up here and there (leaky air brake pump, kinked throttle cable). I had a slow leak in one of the tires, and I wouldn't let the Les Schwab lot jockey just hop in and drive it. I also had to sign an insurance release form to drive it in to a service bay restricted area just to get it lubed.

[Laecaon]

yellow electric car link:

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/25065-my-bros-electric-car/

[]2eDeYe]

Go full electric if you really want to save money.

 

...on gas and spend it on your electric bill...

[bananahamuck]

My electric bill is over $430. a month now..I think i could run my house cheaper on gasoline.

[datsunaholic]

Law of conservation of energy. Energy in = energy out. You can't change physics.

 

Internal combustion engines are grossly inefficient, but there is so much energy in gasoline or diesel fuel that the waste doesn't affect the cost compared to other methods of storing and using energy.

 

Can you use an electrical current to create molecular hydrogen and molecular oxygen out of water? Yes. Proven technology. It's also one of the more expensive and inefficient ways of extracting hydrogen. Know what commercial Hydrogen producers use to generate hydrogen? Oil, or fossil gasses. It's more cost effective than electrolysis of water.

 

Can you use hydrogen to fuel an internal combustion engine? Yes.

 

Can you use electrolysis to run a car powered solely on water? No. The energy used to power the electrolysis exceeds the energy generated by the hydrogen. Laws of physics states in can NEVER exceed it. The efficiency of creating electrical power at an alternator from Hydrogen being burned in an internal-combustion engine is very low- under 25%. Mainly because you've had to convert way too many times. An internal combustion engine alone is very inefficient- 25-40% of the potential energy of the fuel actually goes to the crankshaft. The rest is lost as waste heat. Even using an adiabatic engine, you still barely reach 50%. If that engine is SOLELY used to power a generator, you then have the electrical loss. Electrical generators are 60-80% efficient. The electrolysis process is 80-90% efficient. So, take middle level estimates, to run an engine powering ONLY a generator that is using 100% of its output for hydrogen generation, you would need to add 3-4 times the amount of hydrogen than you can produce using the engine. It's a net LOSS. And that's just to power the generator! You have zero power left to do any other work.

 

Most of these "HHO" systems supposedly add to the gasoline system and pump hydrogen and oxygen into the engine. But my best estimates, using 3A at the electrodes, you're simply losing 0.1HP all the time. Not a big loss... but negative gain. You're producing enough hydrogen to MAYBE run a fractional-horsepower model airplane motor.

 

The videos of people "running" engines on HHO alone? Bullshit. If the engine is running on generated hydrogen alone, there's a battery sitting under the table running the electrolysis process and the engine is running at zero load. Or they've stored hydrogen in a tank. More likely they have a totally different fuel supply system hidden under the table.

[FoxyRoadster]

Just random thought.. Injecting water into the intake does help mileage, its been done for ages. Its gains aren't really worth mass production cars though, turbo cars often run a meth/water injection to help.

 

These threads of HHO pop up time to time on ratsun. :lol:

[mellotrongirl]

I'm in the yardcare biz--and come across a lot of festering grass clippings and decomposing raked leaves. Lots of heat and gas! Might as well get a flexfuel steam engine that also runs on methane. If only I could keep the stench and weight down. I figure someday I ought to put it all in a big black box out in the sun & run a radiator/pipe system from it into the house to generate some warmth.

 

I also thought of a solar panel on top of a vehicle that runs a little motor that slowly winds up a coiled spring that can be used as propulsion. At least a system like that won't weigh more than a few pounds, but I'm sure the sudden unbridled burst of energy would at the very least burn up your brakes.

[TENDRIL]

 

Got your tinfoil hat on tendril? ;)

 

(If you really want to save gas, ride your bike to work)

 

 

ive got a roadbike and its awesome, i was just trying to get some input on it as my grandfather built one and put it on his dodge 3500 diesel and went from the bay area to texas on a tank of fuel or a tank and a half, but hes had a stroke now and cant tell me about it anymore so i brought it up here :)

[Rob W.]

man I have got to get me a hat like that

[KC Phirus]

I said, "I tried this on my diesel trucks", the relay is to connect it to the battery, you do not want it connected directly to your battery, you need a relay, you definately don't want to put this threw your key. For any datsun application, there isn't enough room for a desk top computer in the engine compartment, anything that size would cost a fortune, and be a bomb in the eyes of the US government. We are talking about a generator for a datsun, the average size will be maybe 8 inches tall, and about 5/6 inches round, 5 amps will not produce shit, but 30 amps will do what I said, about every 15 seconds you can produce what would be called a small shotgun going off, that would be about 750 times the engine turned with an average 3000rpm in that 15 seconds, so now you just need to figure out how to produce it 749 times faster, but my diesel rpms are a little slower though. You will start a fire in your car, trying to put 30 amps threw the key without a relay, headlights draw less, and they have a relay. I tried vinegar, baking soda, salt, and lye, vinegar being the easiest to work with, then you also need the distilled water, ect. It just is not cost effective, you do not save any money.

 

You seem to have failed tremendously, try again. I've always ran directly from the alt. Pulling 5 with just tap water was over 1l/min. Pro tip, don't use it if it's drawing 30 amps.... A 2.0 doesn't need a desktop computer sized generator. My largest is about 8" h x 3" r and is plenty for a 2.0.

 

 

 

 

(If you really want to save gas, ride your bike to work)

 

 

^This.

 

 

[KC Phirus]

The people that have had success with their generators are enjoying them regardless of the skepticism. If you bothered to try it, rather than accept the bullshit fed to you by paid naysayers on news and tv (no conspiracy here, they really don't want you to think you can get away from the oil industry) you would manage to get it to work.

I am absolutely positive that a smaller engine such as a 1.3 could be ran off of pure H O. Your hundred dollar kit with two bolts in a mayonnaise jar is not going to do jack shit and does not mean that adding hydrogen and oxygen to an engine will not improve your mileage. For fucks sake, they have plenty of things that run off of pure hho. It doesn't take the same amount of hydro to push a piston as it does gasoline vapor. You're improving your mileage by improving the horsepower and fuel efficiency.

TIN FOIL HATS RDY

 

 

THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO BELIEVE IT

[TENDRIL]

i dont want to do this to power the goon just on the hho, i would like to supplement the intake a maybe be able to turn the mixture screw down to use less gas for long trips such as canby this year.. thats all folks so if sombody can show me how to wire it up, kc? do you have one built, and i guess what im wondering is where you connect the + and - , you dont connect them to the same piece of metal i assume so you have two diff. conducters under water and the elect. jumps between the two and diffuses the mouocules /

[TENDRIL]

I believe :hug: i would like to try it my self and seeing is believe for me i am taking all the thoughts thats why i made the thread, i just couldnt find a YT vid on how to make the metal part inside i like the washer ideas but i dont know where to put the +/- on the washer setup... :hmm:

[KC Phirus]

i dont want to do this to power the goon just on the hho, i would like to supplement the intake a maybe be able to turn the mixture screw down to use less gas for long trips such as canby this year.. thats all folks so if sombody can show me how to wire it up, kc? do you have one built, and i guess what im wondering is where you connect the + and - , you dont connect them to the same piece of metal i assume so you have two diff. conducters under water and the elect. jumps between the two and diffuses the mouocules /

 

Yes you must have a pos side and a neg side, that's now it works is drawing the current through the water. Mine is something like a 10x10 arrangement of 2mm rods alternating the rows by neg pos neg pos etc.

[datzenmike]

I've seen a 10hp honda generator creating the power to create the hydrogen and was perpetual as long as you kept the water filled.

 

First the output of gas is going to be constant., or near so. It would depend on the voltage available and how well the water conducts.

So this 10hp Honda generator must have run at a set speed determined by how much gas was available.

So how do you rev it up under full load, or if the load increases and more gas is needed where does it come from?

 

You seem like a smart kid, so I'm wondering how you were fooled by this. :lol: j/k

[Rob W.]

I just have a hard time believing the whole "the man is just trying to keep us down" thing I can't see the math here now if you were able to generate the hydrogen with a source of power (say sunlight) ahead of time and store it I could see the advantage and money saving.

 

On a different note I run a scooter to work and back and cycle other days the scooter gets over 70 miles to the gallon the bike well it runs on potatoes. Why I would chase this dragon for such a small gain, I don't know. The scooter was less than $1000 and will pay for itself soon in gas saving...

 

this post brought to you by the evil oil companies who are just trying to keep you in your place you blind sheep a hahahahahahahahahaha

[Laecaon]

I believe there is some truth behind the oil companies trying to hide certain aspects. But they arent scared of this.

 

Hybrids and electric cars are cool, but batteries are not the way to go. Slow discharge super capacitors would be far better, and that is where the research is going. You could charge a car so fast with Capacitors!

[Boaty]

I don't believe I'll ever drive something that takes a HAZMAT team to clean the mess up when I get in a nasty fender bender.

 

If you drove hundreds of miles per week, a Hybrid may one day eventually pay for itself. And yes, they are amazingly cool. But,...

They cost a lot to produce, they have a relatively high purchase price, owners will find it hard to have it "pay for itself" simply because the lifespan of these vehicles is far less than it would take to make it worth it. In addition, sure it may be more green to operate but it is definitely NOT "greener" to produce. Which has been the biggest hurdle for major auto makers to overcome. Can they make a more efficient vehicle AND offer it at an affordable price? They're trying... how much is this new Chevy Volt?? Hmm.

 

I'll stick with my paid-for Datsun that still beats a large sum of modern, and new vehicles on the market today boating their amazing fuel economy statistics. My ~28mpg is better than any newer 13mpg. It's paid for itself a hundred times over during it's life span so far, and I suspect it'll be the gift that keeps on giving. And I will enjoy getting the finger from people that believe anything BUT an electric vehicle/hybrid vehicle is a pile of shit. I will enjoy driving it in California where I get odd looks at gas stations, and hippies, and stuck up middle aged women who work in the environmental field. And I will do so, with a giant smile on my face. Because I drive a Datsun, and because of FUCK POWER WINDOWS.

 

40+ years later, MY car is still on the road. 40+ years later, MY car still gets great mileage. 40+ years later, it didn't cost me anything but maintenance and fuel costs. Whoever owned it before me probably felt the same way.

 

In regards to rigging up something to procure a few more miles to the gallon on your next trip - consider this: How much is your time worth? How much money was invested in creating this contraption? How does it impact your current efficiency? Does all of that, summed up, greater than the amount of money you would have spent on fuel in the first place? If so, congratulations on failing to meet your personal goal.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I think the move in technology is great. I think it's a wonderful thing, that I agree has been hindered by big money. Maybe more by others, less by some - but still, the technology is there, and it's progressing albeit slower than many people anticipated. But it's still there, and it's still slowly moving in what I believe is the 'right' direction.

 

But me, I'll save my money and not purchase a car that costs $25K of my dwindling capital, that will never exist long enough due to lack of quality, to pay for itself. It's a worthless endeavor.

 

And totally off topic now that I'm ranting - enjoy this link of awesomeness that has merit in our future. Even if you're not interested in all of what this thread incorporates, watch it anyhow. It's kind of awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wHGh2eRbLE

 

TTFN.

[Hardwyre]

The mythbusters used the shittiest design out there and failed to use any electrolyte. A little baking soda (not suggested) would have produced some much better results. After the episode, the HHO community posted a ton of their own videos. I'm not sure if mythbusters have revisited it since.

 

There is a major misconception on what HHO is supposed to do in the combustion cycle. It's not a replacement for fuel, it's an additive. The theory is that it helps with the burn efficiency. When I get back around to rebuilding my cell, I'm going to run some fueling tests with my megasquirt and see just how lean it'll run compared to exhaust temps. The guy who designed the Smacks Booster runs one on his bike with a modified fuel map. He's cruising at 17:1 to 18:1 air:fuel with the booster, where before, he couldn't do much beyond 15.5:1. THAT is where the fuel savings comes from, being able to run more efficient lean cycles.

 

Also, there's this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd39Fonf_Gc

 

Oxy-hydrogen welding:

http://brownsgas.com...g-aluminum.html

 

An oxy-hydrogen flame burns at about 3600*F or higher which is right around the melting temperature of aluminum oxide, letting you weld aluminum with it. That's why I also want to rebuild my cell.

[merlin]

i just photographed a 1947 toyota truck that ran on wood gassifcation! tons of vehicles were converted to this at the end of WW2 in japan... ther was essentially no gas available to civilians for nearly 2 years so lots of cars had wood gassifiers hanging out of the trunk.

[Hardwyre]

Now, what I REALLY want to see happen is our society switch over to high compression ethanol engines. :)

 

Instead of these headlines: Major oil spill in gulf. Millions of fish dead.

We see these headlines: Major ethanol spill in gulf. Millions of fish slightly intoxicated. Fishermen rejoice at thought of pre-marinated seafood.