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waynos 521 work truck


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have you thought maybe it could be carrier bearing angle under load?

Im just guessing.

Datto 510 had this proplem in 5th gear when he installed his 5 speed. Of coarse it was lowered, He put a spacer on the carrier bearing.



What I meant buy under load was giving it the gas, when coasting it makes no noise, in any gear, just when picking up speed in 1st and 2nd. The transmission has been in there for several years now, it is the first shortshaft 5 speed I ever put together, been in there maybe 5 years, and you guys see what I do to this truck, I over load it all the time, I recently pulled 2 tons plus trailer weight over 180 miles, I just have to get it changed before I ruin the front case, I suspect one of the cluster gear bearings is going bad, but don't know for sure. The sound it makes is like a bent wheel rubbing on a piece of metal, do you understand, scrape............scrape............scrape............ect. But it is coming from the tranny area I beleave, trouble is when stuff like the driveline is involved or connected to it, sometimes it is hard to tell where the noise is. At one point I was wondering if the flywheel was coming loose and rubbing on the inside of the tranny case/bellhousing, but the starter sound has not changed, so I don't think it is that.

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I wasn't looking forward to changing the transmission in this rig, but I tackled it today, I started at 10:30am today and finished about 3pm, it went down exactly like I thought it would, I couldn't remove the transmission without removing the clutch cover, what a pain in the ass. I suspect that the reason I am unable to drop the tranny, while everyone else says they can even with a longshaft 5 speed is because way back in 2003ish, when I put this frame together with the 620 disc brakes, I had also lengthened it 24 1/2 inches, so the cab was removed, when I put the cab back on the frame, I suspect I didn't use the stock rubber mounts, and the cab sits on the frame lower/closer, that is all I can think of, there just is no room to get the tranny case far enough back to clear the clutch cover and drop it, I was able to drop the dogleg out last time, but was unable to get the new hybrid transmission back in there with the clutch cover in position, I remember having to remove it to get the new tranny in there, then putting the clutch cover back on with minimal room to work with. This time I removed the tranny mount off the frame, no differance. I drove the truck a block and the noise seems to be gone, so that is good. Funny thing about this tranny is it has been waiting to go into this truck for at least 3 years, as the 2nd gear syncros have been bad for that long, but I just couldn't get motivated, and it worked fine otherwise, it will be nice not having to soft touch it into second gear anymore. :lol:

This is how high I lift it to change out a transmission.


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So this is why I haven't seen ya. Gosh man you have been busy. Good work man, you rock. My tranny is hanging in still...weird. Man next time you get crazy and do all this hard core work call me over so I can learn a thing or two man. I could've got you ice water and handed you tools. Guess you'll just have to teach me on my truck...shucks.

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So this is why I haven't seen ya. Gosh man you have been busy. Good work man, you rock. My tranny is hanging in still...weird. Man next time you get crazy and do all this hard core work call me over so I can learn a thing or two man. I could've got you ice water and handed you tools. Guess you'll just have to teach me on my truck...shucks.



It is a lot easier to change a clutch and disc than what I did, the tranny doesn't have to be dropped, just moved backwards, not a big savings of time, it would take 3 to 4 hours to change your clutch using my tools I suspect.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I pulled the intake/exhaust again, but this time I put the new header in after I ground off a little metal on the flange where it was hitting the block designation(Z22) surface, it's great not to have that exhaust leak anymore, although it is a header and you can hear it through the header pipes themselves, I just couldn't bring myself to put that L16 exhaust manifold on there with that small outlet, it's like 1 1/2 inch, the rest of my system is 2 inch.

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  • 2 months later...

The freaking LZ23 gave up again, I think it is the head gasket again, as it is blowing the water out of the radiator now, though water is not in the oil yet like last time. I ordered a stud kit, part # 202-4201, and was hoping that it would last till the kit got in. I have been losing a little water into one of the cylinders the last week, but it cascaded today, it did not overheat though, as I was watching that carefully. One gets tired of this shit, I have to make a new headgasket everytime, and that could be part of the problem, as everytime I grab the gasket hard to make sure it doesn't move while making the holes needed in it, some of the material comes off.

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I am about to head outside and decide if I pull the LZ23 and put my other L20 block in the truck, I have not pulled the valve cover to see which headbolt is loose that is allowing the piston to blow the water out of my radiator as I am sure the headgasket is toast somewhere. If the front drivers side head bolt is loose, then there is no choice, as the threads will likely be gone, because I put a stud in that hole and bottomed it out. I just hate going backwards powerwise, this LZ23 engine was definately a step forward.

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It took 5 hrs. to swap out the engines, I have my work truck back, feels good. The LZ23 block is going into the shop and have the headbolt hole drilled and retapped for a helicoil, is that what it is called? Then I will install the stud kit so I don't have to worry about block holes stripping out anymore, I will also be able to use thread locker on the studs and hopefully forget about them from that day forward. Is there anything else I can do to make this the last time I have to pull this block apart for headgasket issues? I have another question guys, I noticed the stud kit threads were differant on the top part, finer thread, will this change the torque specs, a fine thread makes it easier to get more pressure with less effort, so what would normally be 40 lbs. on the torque wrench creating a certain known pressure is going to be differant with fine threads. Do I need to use differant torque values?

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Head bolt holes stripping out is not a common problem with the L-series. Someone may have over-torqued it at one time. The heli-coil wil be as strong as the original.


I wouldn't use thread locker, properly prepped and torque head bolts don't vibrate loose. The head gasket may lose tension and should be re-torqued every couple of years.


Yes, fine threads do need a different torque factor. ARP should be able to tell you their recommendation.

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Contact ARP for a torque recommendation.

What happens when you torque a bolt, is the bolt actually stretches, like a spring. This stretch is called elastic deformation. It springs back, like elastic bands in your underwear. If you torque the bolt more, it eventually goes from elastic deformation to plastic deformation. At this point the bolt is starting to yield, and will not return to its original length. A lot of modern "use once" head bolts are designed to this condition.


Torquing a head bolt head bolt is a crude attempt to measure the stretch of the bolt. Obviously, how clean the threads are in the block, how smooth the threads are on the bolt, and even how much the bolt "winds up", like a torsion bar, affect the bolt stretch. But torque is the only way to measure the tightness of a head bolt.


Connecting rod bolts are another critical bolt in an engine. But with connecting rod bolts, it is actually possible to torque the bolt, and compare the length before torquing, and after. On high performance engines, the con rod bolts are measured, and if they are too long, after torquing. the bolt is removed, discarded, and another new bolt is used.

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Went and picked up the block from the machine shop today, I am hoping this is going to fix the headgasket issues this time. Head is flat, no machining needed. Here is my old headgasket, other than being dirty, the thing looks great, the shop guy just shook his head, and pointed to the discoloration on one side of the #1 hole, if I knew this would work I would reuse it, but I don't want to take the chance.





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These are the photos of my cam, rotor and front timing mark positions, this baffles me, the cam is not at 10am and 2pm, the rotor is not at 4pm when the crank is at TDC.




If I move the crank to 15 degrees BTDC it gets close, but not there yet, I put it back together the same way it was when I pulled it apart.




This is what I used to make the holes in the new headgasket this time, I was not impressed, it would deform the gasket with every hole I made, but I turned it over and flattened it back out, hope there are no issues.


I put the stud kit in and that turned out just great, no surprises.

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How about crank at TDC and checking the timing mark on the cam gear? Kinda looks off a tooth...


That is what is baffling me, I marked the timing chain and gear with a felt pen, neither were moved as far as I know, and the gear went onto the cam in #2 dowel hole with no issues. It really confuses me, the thing is that the distributor is connected to the crank, so the distibutor should'nt be off. I am going to remove the valve cover off the engine in the truck now and probably make some changes to the LZ23, depending what position I find that engine to be in. When I first tried to start the new LZ23, it wasn't set up correctly, somehow the dist. was way off, I had to re-position the oil pump drive shaft to 11:30, it ran fine after that, so I don't really know if it has been off the whole time, but the engine ran fine, so I looked no further.

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  • 4 weeks later...

The LZ23 is back in the work truck, while I had the engine out I did some repair work to the power steering box/gear frame mount area, over the years, it starts getting loose and I tighten it, and it gets loose again, ect, ect, and it finally cracks the frame rail and then the steering gets mushy/sloppy, well after years of welding the frame every couple years or so, I decided to try something to keep the top of the gear from wiggling back and fourth, I made a piece of metal that mounts to one of the horn mounts and it goes around the power steering return hose metal fitting, I am hoping this will limit the movement of the steering gear, it's such a simple fix, I hope it works.



The engine now has a head stud kit(202-4201) in it, I hope this fixes the head gasket issues.

I am going to enjoy having power again.

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  • 3 months later...

I have been having issues with the starter lately, I have been thinking the battery is going bad, so I put another battery in, no differance, it turns over really slow, sometimes it only turns over half a turn and stops, it also would make the negitive battery cable smoking hot, with the emphasis on smoking, when I looked at the cable, it had a lot of that blueish oxidation copper gets, so I cut an inch off the cable, it was still blueish, so another inch, and another, and another, finally I realized the whole cable was oxidized, so off to find another cable, i installed it, no change.

So I pulled the starter, it's never a good day to pull a starter when it's raining, anyway I got it out, used a set of jumper cables and jumped the starter, you know your having a bad day when the starter won't even turn over out of the car unless you hit it with a hammer, and then it only turns in slow motion, it is one of them baxter lifetime warranty starters, but I doubt I will be able to find the paperwork, oh well.

I found a starter in the shed, installed it, and now it works great.

Another issue fixed, to bad I can't fix me that easy. :lol:

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  • 3 months later...

I pulled the front driverside wheel off today to see if anything was loose, as when I hit the brakes, the truck has started pulling to the left badly, when I got it off the ground and grabbed the tire, I could not beleave how loose it was, turned out the lower balljoint was loose, so I tightened the bolts, and it was much better, so I thought if one side was loose, maybe the other was also.

When the passingerside wheel left the ground, I knew there was an issue there also, but the balljoint was tight, the hub bearings were loose on this side, no wonder the truck wouldn't stop strait, and it's all better now. :rolleyes:

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