TENDRIL Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 shit i have NPRs.... Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Dude i remeber when i first fired my fresh KA in my 720 it smoked like a son of a bitch just a bellowing cloud!! I ended up pulling the engine back out. And nothing was wrong the ring gap was perfect nothing broke just oil EVERYWHERE! Even up in the intake. I bought a set of hastings rings for it and all was fine. The NPR ring i used were just junk im guessing not enough tension to seal. I have carillio chrome ring with this new KA im building i finished the bore with 220 grit stones in hopes they will seal up Chrome are only good on fresh re-bored cylinders that are perfectly round. Anything else use cast iron, they wear more and 'brake in' on uneven surfaces better. Don't cheap out on the rings. You can go cheap on a hose clamp, they're easy to get at and replace. Quote Link to comment
TENDRIL Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 engine was a re-bore also :poop: :blush: Quote Link to comment
TENDRIL Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 its not determined yet however! less than 200 miles sofar Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Well you have little to loose. Drive the shit out of it. its not determined yet however! less than 200 miles sofar Well that's not much. Check oil and gas, warm it up and get out on the highway. Run from 40 up to 60 in third gear full throttle and let off and coast down to 40. Repeat 20 to 30 times. If you have a tach don't exceed 5K for now. The point is to heat that sucker up and jam those rings hard against the cylinder walls. This should have been done in the first half hour after starting it for the first time. Babying (not saying you did) only delays the break in and can allow compression to find paths past the rings, and like a river bed channel, they are hard to get rid of. Quote Link to comment
TENDRIL Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 so lets star here... built the motor, timed it(or so i thought) made sure i had oil pressure. i used 30w non det. let it warm up to temp and i took off, drove fine for about 5 mins than it started falling on its face as i got on the highway it was bogging down and would not get above 4kish under load it would rev just fine in neutral or clutch pressed in i did not want to turn around and go back to where i was, for personal reasons.... had to make it where i was headed... so its pig rich i can smell it and see it was able to get up to highway speeds and i knew i had to keep changing the rpms and load, and i did this to the best of my ability, down shifting and reving and engine braking not the most ideal conditions but i had to keep going, i drove this way for about an hour until i got to Sacramento to another datsun enthusiast house and where tools and space were permitted to figure it out... switched MAF's and ECU's and nothing changed it finally he popped the dizzy out and moved it a tooth, full power!!!! however i noticed when i left it started to smoke....he said not to worry about it it will pass engine has about 70 miles on it at this point so i took off and took off fast!! im hot doggin' around the free way doing the break in protocol and loving the new found power of a ka24de in my 510, this goes on for the next hour, 65+ miles i pull into a gas station to grab fuel. im doing a walk around checking everything out as this is the first time she has seen the road in a year. check the oil and SHIT!!! im about a quart low maybe more, not on the cross hatches but still on the dip stick. oil was also black already the whole trip temps/oil pressure were steady and just fine run back in and buy a 6$ quart of no name oil :poop: didnt quite top it off but well into the almost full range. noticed some more smoke at this point leaving the station :confused: :mad: kept going still knowing i have to set the rings. make it to my destination check everything before parking for the night. everything looked fine. next morning i was headed to another members shop to fine tune everything in preparation for camby trip hop in fire it up started and sounded great maybe a bit high of an idle but that why i was going to the shop put it on a sniffer and get it tits, still running rich at this point but figured i'd get it sorted out soon enough. so its running rich and smoking after a while of driving and only sometimes it would smoke got to the shop not smoking turned it off for about an hour or tw,o to hang out. let idle to temp to check compression 190's all the way across, adjust idle, and proper timing, and after about 5 mins of idle. smoke slowly started to appear and than got pretty smokey than stopped wtf!! was low on oil again after only 40 miles!! and even more black :sick: left the shop about 9 pm was headed home and the car broke down was stuck on the free way off ramp until 2-3 am trying to get it running without so much as a screwdriver in the car LOL!! i had a 10 mm wrench and a crescent wrench, tow truck came and about 200$ and 17 miles later it was in front of the house i was staying at ( dont break down in sketchy neighborhoods and call a tow truck at 12 am no body wants to pick you up!) next two days i was testing everything i could with what i had, and a fsm, ultimately i think i set the timing 180 out somehow and than the tooth adjustment made it work but was wrong the codes i kept pulling from the ECU was a 11 and a 21 and my spark wasn't firing on the right time so finally i got it sorted and and was losing my mind as to why it wasnt firing and it dawn on me i wasnt getting fuel got the pump going and it fired right up. drove it around about 4 miles after it warmed up and even more oil smoke !!! so i did what i could to scrounge some monies together to get a gal of oil and a filter changed it out today and will be headed to the shop in the AM for the bbq! not running rich anymore and timing should be on with new un contaminated oil and filter i will take your idea mike with the 3rd gear 40-60 and engine break to 40 about 20x and check back in tomato so far my list of possibility 1. rings didn't seat properly due to cyl. being washed with pig rich mixture. 2. oil rings overlapped :sick: 3.machine shop used shifty valve stem seals .... or they didnt really pressure test head and block for cracks 4. PCV is allowing oil to be sucked in some how 5. head gasket failing with out mixing fluids yet... Quote Link to comment
hosestop@msn.com Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Hey Ray does it smoke on deceleration or when sitting idleing ,usually that is a bad guide or guide seals when butterfly is shut vac is increased and maybe pulls oil in cyls . Quote Link to comment
Sealik Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 I swapped my chrome NPR rings out for Hastings cast iron after a LZ23 build.......couldn't get the compression over 125 Now.......it's about 178 on all 4 cylinders I'm gonna guess it's 'door' number 2, 3 or 4 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Confirm that your dip stick is correct. Even if you have to empty the pan and pour in the correct amount. It may be over full!!!!! This would spew smoke until it's down a quart. 1 Quote Link to comment
jesusno2 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Chrome are only good on fresh re-bored cylinders that are perfectly round. Anything else use cast iron, they wear more and 'brake in' on uneven surfaces better. Don't cheap out on the rings. You can go cheap on a hose clamp, they're easy to get at and replace. This is all good and dandy on a engine that is not turbo charged LOL ! otherwise I agree on the cast top ring. chrome top rings work but the bore has to be finished to a specific grit for easy break in. Quote Link to comment
MicroMachinery Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 :( 1 Quote Link to comment
jesusno2 Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 hows it going man got it going yet? Quote Link to comment
TENDRIL Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 So after driving it today it seems as it only builds up a lot of oil in the cyls. On deceleration and if I get on it after a long decel it lets a lot of smoke out, however if I don't let the engine slow down in gear and put in neutral and coast it, than punch it hardly smokes at all. But still smells like burning oil constantly Quote Link to comment
TENDRIL Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Also all four cyls looked black and wet, did a comp. test 180's across all four, did a wet test on cyl one and raised the compression less than 10lbs, spark plugs looked dry and had some small grey carbon dots forming from burning oil, however they did not look to far out of norm.... Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Deceleration produces huge vacuum in the intake and cylinders. This will suck oil up past the rings and also down the intake valves if the seals are bad. Did you put the intake valve seals on? :lol: Did you confirm that you have the correct 4 liters of oil in it? Do you have a custom oil pan? Maybe the crank is just too close to the oil ? Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Confirm that your dip stick is correct. Even if you have to empty the pan and pour in the correct amount. It may be over full!!!!! This would spew smoke until it's down a quart. Yep. Sometimes you just have to start at ground zero. I call this forensic engine diagnosis. Go through all the steps and don't make any assumptions. Quote Link to comment
TENDRIL Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 It's all stock, components I.e. Oil pan, dipstick. I changed the oil two days ago and put 4 quarts in as I still had a quart left in my 5quatr jug. Machine shop did all the head work.... And did not think to double check the work as I paid for them to do it. I sort of wish I would have... Chances are I will pull the motor apart when I get a chance, and triple check my work and shop work as I can't seem to find a culprit on the outside i.e pcv, compression, I put everything together using FSM for the 93 240sx. Quote Link to comment
Draker Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Sometime the second ring has a slight chamfer. Installed upside down causes this type of behavior. Now I am wondering if I installed chrome rings in my l20. Time to investigate. 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Yeah, the dot near the gap on the assymetrical ring shows which side goes up. Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 my engine block builder says install rings dry and will seat faster of coarse I have only installed iron rings 2 Quote Link to comment
TENDRIL Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 have new rings, OSK timing set, gasket set, ARP studs ..... ready set.... maybe 2maro 2 Quote Link to comment
uberkevin Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Get it done already!! 1 Quote Link to comment
TENDRIL Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 I have done things.............. Quote Link to comment
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