A Certain Blue 510

[Dguy210]

Picked up this shell back in 2020, did some initial work and have mostly been sitting on it as I got the 1200 finished. 280zx break swap and rebuilt the front end. Now started work back on the drivetrain and assorted bits. Will be getting a Z22 and 5sd from a 720 initially as this is intended to be a car driven by my youngest son when he gets to that age. I will of course be making him put some sweat equity into it too. The last week or so has seen the Z22 get some love and and I'll be ready to put it in soon. 

[KELMO]

Looks like a really good starting point. I am curious as to what brake master cylinder you are using.

[datzenmike]

Z22, nice. A little more power than an L20B but much more torque. I guess a 510 oil pan? 15/16" master?

 

Curious how much hood clearance there is. I think the Z22 is shorter than the L20B which is 3/4" taller than the L16. Wonder if a Z24, which is 3/4" taller than a Z22, would fit.

[fiveoneO]

I bought a 510 once that had a Z24 in it. It was running a stock style Hitachi carb and the carb was about an inch from the hood. It didn't have any room for an air cleaner.

[Dguy210]

12 hours ago, KELMO said:

Looks like a really good starting point. I am curious as to what brake master cylinder you are using.

7/8 master cylinder, from Rockauto for some flavor of Z car to match the 280ZX front struts.

 

11 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Z22, nice. A little more power than an L20B but much more torque. I guess a 510 oil pan? 15/16" master?

 

Curious how much hood clearance there is. I think the Z22 is shorter than the L20B which is 3/4" taller than the L16. Wonder if a Z24, which is 3/4" taller than a Z22, would fit.

Front sump Z20 oil pan (technically from a 510 🤣) and pickup I got from Wayno. I swapped over to a front sump crossmember so I can easily swap in a KA24E down the road if I want to (which I already have). If I run into clearance issues I'll run either the low profile air cleaner or figure something out.

 

 

But I'm not really hurting for engine choices either, besides those visible in the pic there is an L16 on another engine stand behind the Z22, an L20b on the floor behind that (can just see valve cover), an A12 under the blue towel and another A14 on the other side of the shop (that is an A15 here).

Edited November 20, 2023 by Dguy210

[Draker]

Cool build. I’ll be following along. 
 

by the way, what floor coating you got there?

[Z23T]

If my dad told me when I was in high school we were going to build a 510 for me to drive, I would have jizzed in my my pants. 

 

A number of years ago I swapped the 15/16 M/C for the 7/8 with my 280ZX brakes and the pedal went from rock hard to firm and easy to modulate.

[Dguy210]

20 hours ago, Draker said:

Cool build. I’ll be following along. 
 

by the way, what floor coating you got there?

Epoxy plus granite floor flakes, garage of the house is done the same way but only fits one car now due to a bunch of metal cabinets and large walk-in pantry. The house was originally owned by the widowed mother of a local custom floor coatings company owner. He had the shop built as a warehouse for the epoxy and supplies originally so that he could always have someone keeping an eye on his mom and then dumped a bunch of money into renovating and fixing up the place so she would be comfortable.. and then she died after a very short illness after everything was fixed up. We had an inside scoop and picked it up before it went on the market.

 

This is actually the second house we've bought that had the shop area used as a business before we bought it and that we picked up off market after the owner passed away (my last house the "garage" was 1200+ sq ft, finished with very tall ceilings and had been used for manufacturing carports). 

 

If we ever move again I think I'm just going to outright look for some kind of warehouse at this point with living space.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Dguy210

[Dguy210]

Transmission mount came in, now I just need to figure out which orientation works best for mounting the 720 5spd.

 

Also, this car did not come with an engine bay wiring harness or any of the electrical stuff for the engine bay, but did come with two dash harnesses and a fuse box (with perfect cover). Currently working on converting an old 620 wiring harness, a bucket of Ford harness, a bunch of new wire and connectors and a police car light set wiring harness into 1 good wiring harness with a new fuse box (inside the car this time) with the correct connectors and correct (as possible) wire colors. Slow going and I've been tracing out each wire and circuit a bit at a time. 

 

 

Progress is progressing.

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Dguy210

[datzenmike]

If the mount is for a 71B transmission it will be the same for L or Z series application. The front case positions the rear case. For example if Z series engine with Z series front case the shifter will be vertical and properly located. I put a Z24 in my 620 and put a Z series front case on the L series transmission. It bolted right up to the stock transmission mount.

 

 

 

On 11/20/2023 at 6:32 AM, Z23T said:

 

A number of years ago I swapped the 15/16 M/C for the 7/8 with my 280ZX brakes and the pedal went from rock hard to firm and easy to modulate.

 

A brake booster would have allowed you to keep the 15/16" but 7/8" without is good to know. My 710 was 3/4" and I went to 15/16" with my Maxima struts and with the booster I didn't notice any difference in 'feel'.

[Dguy210]

5 hours ago, datzenmike said:

If the mount is for a 71B transmission it will be the same for L or Z series application. The front case positions the rear case. For example if Z series engine with Z series front case the shifter will be vertical and properly located. I put a Z24 in my 620 and put a Z series front case on the L series transmission. It bolted right up to the stock transmission mount.

 

 

 

 

A brake booster would have allowed you to keep the 15/16" but 7/8" without is good to know. My 710 was 3/4" and I went to 15/16" with my Maxima struts and with the booster I didn't notice any difference in 'feel'.

 

Yes, that is a 720 stumpy transmission (FSW71B I believe, 2wd) to a Z22 (bought engine and trans pulled as a unit) so with stock mount should basically bolt in and have the shifter come up in the right position as the length is the same as the stock 4spd (26.3) which means I can use a stock driveshaft. I use this same transmission behind my KA24E in the 1200 as it lines up with the stock hole also (I do realize this transmission is a bit less robust behind the KA but I don't abuse it and the car is very light). Standardizing spare parts across cars also makes my life easier.

 

However, I am completely missing the stock mount so the mount I have is one of those universal mounts that mounts a variety of transmissions. It can be bolted in with up to 4 different positions to accommodate different transmissions. I know the up down orientation but I am unsure what position of 2 (front bars/prongs pointed forward or backwards) works for that stock mounting. 

 

I can of course climb under the car with it and a tape measure and try and figure it out, but I'm hoping someone knows already (as this a pretty common mount) and saves me the trouble.

 

As another data point:

The B210 runs a 3/4 with brake booster and with 280ZX struts it is slightly mushier than stock but not annoyingly so and functions just fine.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Dguy210

[Dguy210]

New throwout bearing and new transmission rubber mount with added hole to line up with the larger transmission mount. 5 speed mounted and very loosely bolted in (and on transmission jack) now until I can get the engine in and everything lined up just so. Engine is basically ready to go in and just needs to come off the engine stand to get a clutch.... then the hard part begins of figuring out what the hell I did with the clutch and transmission bolts.

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

isnt that bell housing clocked WRONG???????

that starter should be lower. that head will be tilted to far over unless it just resting on the jack

I know there is a situaltion with a L series trans and napz motor or vise versa

 

[datzenmike]

 Don't forget this is for Z or KA engine position.

[yenpit]

On 11/19/2023 at 7:25 AM, datzenmike said:

Z22, nice. A little more power than an L20B but much more torque. I guess a 510 oil pan? 15/16" master?

 

Curious how much hood clearance there is. I think the Z22 is shorter than the L20B which is 3/4" taller than the L16. Wonder if a Z24, which is 3/4" taller than a Z22, would fit.

 

Looks like the Z series front sump oil pan & already has a flipped crossmember..........I think he is good!

 

Dguy, PM me if you need any 510 parts (not much for the later Z series)!  I got LOTS!! 😆

[yenpit]

On 11/19/2023 at 7:25 AM, datzenmike said:

Z22, nice. A little more power than an L20B but much more torque. I guess a 510 oil pan? 15/16" master?

 

Curious how much hood clearance there is. I think the Z22 is shorter than the L20B which is 3/4" taller than the L16. Wonder if a Z24, which is 3/4" taller than a Z22, would fit.

 

The Z20 is same block deck height as the L20B.  I think the Z22 is also same block deck height.  The Z24 is taller, as mentioned!

[datzenmike]

The Z20 is the same block as the L20B, well slightly different around the oil filter. Bet it's identical to the '79-'80 L20B. Has the block ID between 2 and 3 on the left side but otherwise identical. L20B, Z20,Z22 are all 227.45mm deck height. The Z20 also uses the U60 L20B crankshaft.

 

Z24 is 247.45mm deck... 20mm or 2 cm or 3/4" taller

[Dguy210]

On 12/18/2023 at 8:14 AM, banzai510(hainz) said:

isnt that bell housing clocked WRONG???????

that starter should be lower. that head will be tilted to far over unless it just resting on the jack

I know there is a situaltion with a L series trans and napz motor or vise versa

 

 

Nope, that is correct and bolted in, you can see the midline of the transmission with the mount on the front pic, it just sits that high. I do need to pickup a Z starter at some point. Not positive but I *think" they are not interchangeable with an L series starter.

3 hours ago, yenpit said:

 

Looks like the Z series front sump oil pan & already has a flipped crossmember..........I think he is good!

 

Dguy, PM me if you need any 510 parts (not much for the later Z series)!  I got LOTS!! 😆

 

Yep, front sump from a Z20 and a flipped crossmember, solves the whole angle and midsump pan problem without needing a custom pan or pickup and the flipped crossmember and Z 5spd let me directly swap in a KA later if I want to. I'm pretty good on 510 parts other than picking up a 510 sedan driveshaft, which I actually had but got lengthened for the KA24E swap on the 1200.

[banzai510(hainz)]

OK

just in the photo the trans should line up with the ground in parrallell going across. looks like the left side is higher than the right meaning the trans is turned clock wise from the front. should be even. But IM not a Z series guy so maybe Im wrong

Edited December 20, 2023 by banzai510(hainz)

[datzenmike]

All I have are shots from the rear.

 

L series

 

 

 

Z or KA series

 

[yenpit]

13 hours ago, Dguy210 said:

 

Nope, that is correct and bolted in, you can see the midline of the transmission with the mount on the front pic, it just sits that high. I do need to pickup a Z starter at some point. Not positive but I *think" they are not interchangeable with an L series starter.

 

 

 

Dguy we would only use NAPA brand Wilson rebuilt 280ZX gear reduction (only reason to use anything else other than standard L series) starters, for ALL of our race builds..............by far, the best rebuilt unit, bolt in!  You MUST request the "commercial" (ie forklift) Wilson brand (sorry, I don't have the part# at hand!).  I'm sure most other standard L series (not the 280ZX gear reduction) rebuilt units are fine for a street car, that does NOT get the brutal beatings of a race car!

[yenpit]

17 hours ago, datzenmike said:

The Z20 is the same block as the L20B, well slightly different around the oil filter. Bet it's identical to the '79-'80 L20B. Has the block ID between 2 and 3 on the left side but otherwise identical. L20B, Z20,Z22 are all 227.45mm deck height. The Z20 also uses the U60 L20B crankshaft.

 

Z24 is 247.45mm deck... 20mm or 2 cm or 3/4" taller

 

My original unmolested low mile 1980 720 L20B is basically like any earlier L20B truck engine.........rear sump, dipstick in normal spot.  I'll look at the passenger side, around the oil filter, to see if anything different!  I've had at least one L20B front sump, which I assumed was HL510.

[datzenmike]

Front/rear sump is just whatever oil pan you put on. All L4 and Z series p[ans and pickups will interchange, not that you would want to though. I have an LZ24 with a '74 L18 pan and pickup from a '74 710. It all goes together.

 

Dipstick in the front is an import engine.

 

I think around '77 the L20B had 4 bolt holes added around the oil filter boss although my '78 720 did not. All L and Z engines in the 720 have it. The A10 and S10 have it. I got an oil cooler from a 280zx and it had it.

 

[Dguy210]

Tried to get the engine in tonight but the dustplate on the back of engine is just catching on the centerlink before I can get the engine far enough back to engage the transmission and I just can't quite get a favorable angle. Will need to pull the bolts on the transmission mount and shove the transmission back, then lower engine in past the centerlink and then shove the transmission forward. Not happening tonight though as it is already quite late and I'm just not feeling crawling under the car again right now.

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Dguy210

[datzenmike]

Unbolt the idler arm and let the center link drop down?