New Truck - '71 521

[mainer311]

Firing order is 1-3-4-2 CCW, so that seems right. It spins CCW. 
 

The way you rigged it won’t work well. You still need to rotate the dizzy while it’s running to get it timed to 12BTDC. It’ll run like crap at zero. Looks like the screw position won’t allow that.

Edited December 2, 2023 by mainer311

[mainer311]

First off, remove the condenser on the positive side of the coil. You don’t need it.
 

Something isn’t right here. There should be three wires going to the positive side of the coil. One from the “start” on the ignition switch, one from the “run” on the ignition switch (the run line is the ballast resistor line, so that one looks good), and one going directly to the matchbox. 
 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by mainer311

[datzenmike]

[mainer311]

Mike that picture is wrong because it doesn’t show both ignition wires. We have two. You need to connect both of them.

[thisismatt]

Sure? Since it no longer uses the ballast, it shouldn't need the extra start position wire...?

[mainer311]

5 minutes ago, thisismatt said:

Sure? Since it no longer uses the ballast, it shouldn't need the extra start position wire...?

The ballast is the “run” wire. It uses full 12V for hot ignition, then throttles back with the ballast during running. That’s how the ignition switch works. If you remove the start wire it won’t get any power when the key is turned to start.

Edited December 2, 2023 by mainer311

[datzenmike]

I don't think so. Ignition on Black/White wire to ballast is also on during start. Look at a wiring diagram showing the ignition switch and it shows the ON and START positions as powered. Best to join these wires simply because it's neater and doesn't leave the start wire loose.

[thisismatt]

29 minutes ago, mainer311 said:

The ballast is the “run” wire. It uses full 12V for hot ignition, then throttles back with the ballast during running. That’s how the ignition switch works. If you remove the start wire it won’t get any power when the key is turned to start.

 

Run is powered in the ON and START positions, so if ballast is not being used then using only the run wire should be fine.  TBH I haven't been paying much attention to this part of the conversation, though 😄

[Slow Loris]

FWIW I just converted from points to EI and found this same thing—didn’t have all three wires when all said and done. I just went with it with only the Run wire and it starts and runs fine. I found this same debate on the forum from some years ago when I was re-wiring…it seems like…everyone is correct.

[andyZ00m]

2 hours ago, Slow Loris said:

FWIW I just converted from points to EI and found this same thing—didn’t have all three wires when all said and done. I just went with it with only the Run wire and it starts and runs fine. I found this same debate on the forum from some years ago when I was re-wiring…it seems like…everyone is correct.

 

 

I figured it out. The fucking emissions relay adds wires of similar color that fucked me up.

 

Got all three wires (ign, battery and matchbox) to + of coil, got the negative run using the existing wires.

 

4 hours ago, mainer311 said:

Firing order is 1-3-4-2 CCW, so that seems right. It spins CCW. 
 

The way you rigged it won’t work well. You still need to rotate the dizzy while it’s running to get it timed to 12BTDC. It’ll run like crap at zero. Looks like the screw position won’t allow that.

 

This is the next thing I need to figure out. Between the two screws I should be able to rotate it a bit, but youre right, this isnt ideal. I could grind of a couple mm off the end of the timing plate im using and it would slide back and forth pass the screw which would allow me to change the timing. She runs right now, but want to dial her in.

 

Using the timing light, at idle its a bit past the TDC mark towards the single mark, then when you rev it up, it goes to about the 4th or 5th mark.

 

When doing the timing for 12BTDC, is there any guide for how to do this?

 

Also, Im assuming I can remove this fucker as it isnt connected anymore. Where is the wire coming from for the emissions relay? Its not on the wiring diagram which is why I had issues connecting stuff.

 

[andyZ00m]

Found this thread:

 

Looks like I need to do it 12 degrees "before". Is this the 5 notches or the single notch? single notch is retarded and 5 nothces are advanced?

[datzenmike]

Yes as I mentioned on the last page that's the relay for using or not the second set of points. Not needed just unplug.

 

 

To set the timing the engine must be fully warmed up, valve lash set,and idle properly set. If the idle is too fast, mechanical advance will be added to the advance you set making the total much too high and likely to ping.

 

There should not be any vacuum advance but again if the idle is set too high the throttle plate may be high enough to send a vacuum sigal to the vacuum advance on the distributor, so pull that hose off.

 

 

With idle at around 700 set the timing.

 

Yes it's normal for the timing to advance when the engine is revved up. This is mechanical and some vacuum advance being added to the base timing.

 

 

 

[andyZ00m]

2 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Yes as I mentioned on the last page that's the relay for using or not the second set of points. Not needed just unplug.

 

 

To set the timing the engine must be fully warmed up, valve lash set,and idle properly set. If the idle is too fast, mechanical advance will be added to the advance you set making the total much too high and likely to ping.

 

There should not be any vacuum advance but again if the idle is set too high the throttle plate may be high enough to send a vacuum sigal to the vacuum advance on the distributor, so pull that hose off.

 

 

With idle at around 700 set the timing.

 

Yes it's normal for the timing to advance when the engine is revved up. This is mechanical and some vacuum advance being added to the base timing.

 

 

 

 

Ugh, so I need a timing light with a tacho? I dont have a way to accurately measure RPM. Also, I'l never done valve lash.

 

Wish there was a Datsun church here! Maybe I need to take this thing to Mike and have him help me dial these things in.

 

There is also still some exhaust leaking through my pinched emissions manifold tubes. Need to solve that too.

[datzenmike]

Timing light with tach would be best. 

 

Timing you should check it may be 8 degrees on the L16, and not 12.

[banzai510(hainz)]

7 , 8 10 12 15 degs its up to you what runs best.  I do 12 15 now since I have sidedrafts and a Weber DGV. If it Pings going up a hill back it off abit.  Good gas helps also

 

this is why you should have the timing plate and mount as a set..

each notch is 5 degs on the cranks so about the 2ns notch before the BIG notch with timing light.

I never had a timing light with a rpm and I seem to do fine.  rpm is based on your motor and load of the vehicle if you want more or less RPM , 1000 and under. But with a 35amper alt might want a little higher in winter time with lights ON.

 

As for the HOT start wire . I seen both with and without. I would wire with the HOT start as its a dedicated wire just for this . I had a loose switch in which my car would not start  but maybe catch when key snapped back to ON.  Maybe the later cars could hande this better I dont know

 

ebay has the Haynes Manual of the 510 get that

 

I was hoping soemone make a star timing plate where they caould use a L16 or L20 distributor to fit both cause the slots are closer and farther out between each other cause I knew this wasnt going to be perfect.  That guy that sold you that should have sold the other pieces with it.

Edited December 2, 2023 by banzai510(hainz)

[andyZ00m]

48 minutes ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

7 , 8 10 12 15 degs its up to you what runs best.  I do 12 15 now since I have sidedrafts and a Weber DGV. If it Pings going up a hill back it off abit.  Good gas helps also

 

this is why you should have the timing plate and mount as a set..

each notch is 5 degs on the cranks so about the 2ns notch before the BIG notch with timing light.

I never had a timing light with a rpm and I seem to do fine.  rpm is based on your motor and load of the vehicle if you want more or less RPM , 1000 and under. But with a 35amper alt might want a little higher in winter time with lights ON.

 

As for the HOT start wire . I seen both with and without. I would wire with the HOT start as its a dedicated wire just for this . I had a loose switch in which my car would not start  but maybe catch when key snapped back to ON.  Maybe the later cars could hande this better I dont know

 

ebay has the Haynes Manual of the 510 get that

 

I was hoping soemone make a star timing plate where they caould use a L16 or L20 distributor to fit both cause the slots are closer and farther out between each other cause I knew this wasnt going to be perfect.  That guy that sold you that should have sold the other pieces with it.

I think he just gave me what he had. I think I can deal with the timing rotation of the dizzy and getting it timed properly. 
 

Big question, since I got the dizzy in now with the proper TDC timing and wire order, I can remove it and fuck with the timing plate to make it fit better right? 
 

At this point I’m also trying to figure out an interim solution for plugging the stupid exhaust emission manifold pipes. They were leaking before from

my “crimp job” and it seems that leaking out exhaust is probably not great for the performance of the engine while I’m trying to dial in the timing. Maybe it doesn’t matter if it leaks a bit. 
 

I got the two bolts out on either end that were accessible by a socket wrench but the two in the middle aren’t accessible without removing the carburetor. Considering heat and pressure resistant epoxy over the little slit in the pipe. 

[banzai510(hainz)]

6 minutes ago, andyZ00m said:

I got the two bolts out on either end that were accessible by a socket wrench but the two in the middle aren’t accessible without removing the carburetor.

you should be able to get at the bolts. but my 521 didnt not have airinjection so I could be wrong

[datzenmike]

 Maybe with 6ix side swivel socket. I couldn't get mine too, carb in the way.

[andyZ00m]

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

 Maybe with 6ix side swivel socket. I couldn't get mine too, carb in the way.

 

Yeah Im gunna try some stuff later tonight and also try and get the timing plate dialed in.

[andyZ00m]

Alright I sanded down the timing plate on the side with the notches (sadly had to remove the notches) and put a big ass washer on there.

 

Put a sharpie mark on the dizzy where the rotor was when i took it off. was able to get it securly back in the right spot and now I have ample room on either side to adjust for the timing.

 

 

Found some JB weld that does 550 degrees and 4700 PSI, should be fine to seal the little shit fucker bolts on the exhaust manifold. Will just JB weld the top of the bolt and the pipe so I can still get em out someday when I have better access. Gunna do that tomorrow and then do the timing when its warmed up.

 

 

As an electronics guy, not having a meter or clock to measure what im calibrating is annoying so I''ll probably bite the bullet and buy one of those fancy timing lights with the tacho on it. Im using a buddies basic timing light now and it'll be fine.

 

 

[andyZ00m]

Shoot, do they make special flat box wrenches to get under the springs to loosen the valve tension nuts? My box wrenches are way too thick to get in there. 
 

many of the valves are .006 when they should be .012

 

I hate not having the proper tools!!

[thisismatt]

Yes, you can buy flat/thin wrenches

Edited December 4, 2023 by thisismatt

[andyZ00m]

Figured it out. Only one was out and got them all super close. Will probably check it again in a couple weeks. 
 

Got the timing dialed and the carb idle and speed dialed as well. 
 

She humming like a sex bot!!!! 
 

thanks for all the help!

[mainer311]

I use Park Tool Company bicycle “cone wrenches” for working on the valves. Very thin.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

L series valve adjusters are known to come loose, and I try to get the jam nuts as tight as humanly possible. I use a pair of Snap-On wrenches for the job. If the jam nut is so close to the pedestal that it needs a thin wrench, your rocker arm geometry is probably off.