New Truck - '71 521

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

26 minutes ago, andyZ00m said:

 

Mike is a super cool dude! He gave me some great info and showed me some of the Mikuni stuff he works on and a few engines he’s building. He has SOOO many carburetors!!! Haha. Some

nice Dattos too. 
 

we didn’t put the matchbox in there as I need to wire up some new connectors and put the new coil in but will tackle that this weekend. 

Mike and I are old friends. We used to race 510s together back in the '90s. His knowledge of the Mikuni stuff now is impressive and he builds the best carbs around. All of the Datsun engine builders buy from him. He told me that they are getting so hard to find that he had to go to eastern europe for a set a while back.

[banzai510(hainz)]

1 hour ago, andyZ00m said:

as I need to wire up some new connectors

If you do this right you dont have to cut the stock wiring, just make new jumper to fit in the old connectors. and get double spaded lugs for the coil ect...

 

I hate when people put red/blue splices all over the place. but for matchbox should be EZ to keep stock looking

 

hope he had the mount/timing plate with the distributor

[mainer311]

1 hour ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

hope he had the mount/timing plate with the distributor

looks like the pedestal in on there in the pics, but if he reclocks the dizzy, he might need to rig something up.

 

I rotated my matchbox towards the driver side and ended up cutting the tang off the pedestal to get it to work. 
 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by mainer311

[andyZ00m]

3 hours ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

If you do this right you dont have to cut the stock wiring, just make new jumper to fit in the old connectors. and get double spaded lugs for the coil ect...

 

I hate when people put red/blue splices all over the place. but for matchbox should be EZ to keep stock looking

 

hope he had the mount/timing plate with the distributor

 

Yep thats the plan. I believe you bypass the resistor for this dizzy? I also have the new NGK coil that would be the direct replacement part for a 78 system (which this dizzy is from) so I think I can use all the same wires and just swap a few things. Gunna go reread the matchbox how to thread again before doing it.

 

2 hours ago, mainer311 said:

looks like the pedestal in on there in the pics, but if he reclocks the dizzy, he might need to rig something up.

 

I rotated my matchbox towards the driver side and ended up cutting the tang off the pedestal to get it to work.

 

 

Mike seemed to think this thing would slot right in and not even need timing as it was just pulled out of the exact same motor. Just turn the rotor till it slots in and boom.

[banzai510(hainz)]

1 hour ago, andyZ00m said:

Mike seemed to think this thing would slot right in and not even need timing as it was just pulled out of the exact same motor. Just turn the rotor till it slots in and boom.

not exactly  the same you have a L16 and it came with a L16 pedastal and timing plate set up.

this is why you dial it to TDC Zero on crank then  take photos and then see where the new one SLOTS right in as he says!!!!!!!!

then you have to make sure which way you want the pedastal as you can install it 180 out.  the rotor will ppoint the same the housing will be 180 off.

More you less put the matchbox away from the exhaust if possible w/o hitting your hot water line to mainfold

[mainer311]

With a little work, you can basically point the dizzy in one of four positions 90 degrees from each other and still have it work fine. The rotor just needs to point directly to one of the plug contacts when at TDC. Then make sure it’s numbered the usual 1-3-4-2. Theoretically the pedestal can be mounted in either direction like Heinz said, or the timing plate can be flipped over, etc etc. It just needs to be cobbled together to get it in there and away from the exhaust.

 

Wiring is easy. No ballast resistor. The two spades on the box get wired to + and - on the coil. (Check the matchbox thread for the right direction.)

Edited November 30, 2023 by mainer311

[datzenmike]

2 hours ago, andyZ00m said:

 

Yep thats the plan. I believe you bypass the resistor for this dizzy? I also have the new NGK coil that would be the direct replacement part for a 78 system (which this dizzy is from) so I think I can use all the same wires and just swap a few things. Gunna go reread the matchbox how to thread again before doing it.

 

 

 

 

This is a matchbox, not used on the '78. But yes with the correct EI coil you can bypass/remove the ballast for hotter spark.

[andyZ00m]

2 hours ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

not exactly  the same you have a L16 and it came with a L16 pedastal and timing plate set up.

this is why you dial it to TDC Zero on crank then  take photos and then see where the new one SLOTS right in as he says!!!!!!!!

then you have to make sure which way you want the pedastal as you can install it 180 out.  the rotor will ppoint the same the housing will be 180 off.

More you less put the matchbox away from the exhaust if possible w/o hitting your hot water line to mainfold

I have no idea how to do that but I’m reading the matchbox thread again and watching YouTube videos including yours. Haha. 

[andyZ00m]

10 minutes ago, andyZ00m said:

INSTALLATION

------------

Rotate engine to the timing mark. Remove the cap & note where rotor is pointing. If it is pointing to the #4 spark plug wire, rotate engine one more turn. This is TDC for #1 cylinder

 

Remove old distributor, Insert new distributor. Rotate the housing to align the teeth of the new distributor. Ensure rotor is pointing to the #1 position on the cap.

 

On the L-series engine, you must ensure the matchbox unit is not facing the exhaust manifold. Overheating is a sure way to cook the box. By using the matching Support Pedestal and timing plate it will fit in the correct way.

Easy!

 

I need a new gasket for the pedestal too. Gunna check at the parts store and if not I’ll order one. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by andyZ00m

[andyZ00m]

I think this matchbox unit will fit with the vacuum advance right underneath the top radiator hose. This is the orientation I will have to use with the mounting pedestal that came with it.

 

 

Alright, heres the plan-ish.

 

1. Take off valve cover

2. Rotate engine using the top timing bolt clockwise to timing mark on TDC for cyl 1 (rotor pointing at 1 and timing marks at TDC)

3. Remove old dizzy

4. Insert new dizzy rotated 180 degrees from what seems natural (to put the box away from exhaust. This means the vacuum advance line will fit right under the top radiator hose. (I think) I just realized I think I can use the timing plate from my existing unit which has the correct orientation to only rotate the new dizzy 90 degrees putting the box and the vacuum in a better spot.

5. Rotate rotor of new dizzy to align with cyc 1 cap line in new orientation. Question: the notch on the rotor shaft that goes into the engine is asymmetrical and can only go in one way. Do I reassign the plug that the rotor points to with this new orientation as cyl 1?

6. Install lines and wires to new coil.

7. Bypass ballast resistor.

 

Im assuming I will need to time the new dizzy too which involves a timing light and a tacho?

 

This is the coil I got.

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=9165864&cc=1210149&pt=7060&jsn=8

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by andyZ00m

[mainer311]

The answer to #5 is yes. That will be #1 (as long as you’re at TDC.) Look for the #1 cam lobes to be in the 10 and 2 position.

[datzenmike]

Yes, this will work with the EI ignition..

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=9165864&cc=1210149&pt=7060&jsn=8

 

You can check resistance on the primary side if you want. Should be 0.75- 1.0ohms.

[banzai510(hainz)]

looking at the photo the vac advanve MIGHT hit the hotwater line

[andyZ00m]

31 minutes ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

looking at the photo the vac advanve MIGHT hit the hotwater line

Yeah, we’ll see how it goes in there. Cleaned up the new box last night and need to find a gasket today. 

[banzai510(hainz)]

I alwasy buy a few front cover kits from Felpro or somewhere else it has all the stuff in there

[andyZ00m]

2 minutes ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

I alwasy buy a few front cover kits from Felpro or somewhere else it has all the stuff in there

Nice, that’s a good idea. 
 

In the matchbox guide it highly recommends grounding the housing of the dizzy to the engine, what’s the purpose?

[banzai510(hainz)]

BE HONEST ITS GROUNDED THRU THE SCREWS BUT THERE IS A TAB ON THERE.

I dont know if a ground loop or soemthing like that as both wire go to the coil anyways

[andyZ00m]

43 minutes ago, banzai510(hainz) said:

BE HONEST ITS GROUNDED THRU THE SCREWS BUT THERE IS A TAB ON THERE.

I dont know if a ground loop or soemthing like that as both wire go to the coil anyways

Haha!! That’s what I was thinking… It’s easy enough to do it even if only to ward off the bad juju spirits. 

[datzenmike]

4 hours ago, andyZ00m said:

Nice, that’s a good idea. 
 

In the matchbox guide it highly recommends grounding the housing of the dizzy to the engine, what’s the purpose?

 

Power from the ignition goes to the coil positive and the distributor (points or EI) make and break a contact to ground so power will flow through the distributor. To complete the circuit to ground on the engine the distributor must ground through the mounting bolts or as in the later EI distributors there is a dedicated ground terminal. 

 

The points system draws V/R or 14v/3ohms = 4.6 amps

 

The EI ignition is 14v/1ohm or 14 amps or three times the current!!!!!. It NEEDS a good ground to work properly!

[andyZ00m]

Alright, there is no combination of pedestal and mounting plate that puts this thing in the right place.

 

The radiator hose is definitely in the way.

 

I have an idea, can I put the matchbox on the exhaust side and put a thermal protector of some kind, like a fiberglass or rockwool square around it?

 

Its either this or I need to have to have someone fabricate a new plate, which I dont want to do.

 

Never mind, in a stroke of ingenuity, I found a solution without any drilling. Pictures coming.

Edited December 1, 2023 by andyZ00m

[datzenmike]

You can drop the oil pump and the drive spindle will fall out. Re position it and set into the oil pump and install. The distributor can be positioned an any of 20 different positions. Obviously 1/3 will be in the way of the radiator hose and or facing the exhaust manifold, but quite a number will be towards the radiator. Just as long as you can adjust the timing to 12 degrees BTDC. If not, move one tooth either way to get your adjustment.

[andyZ00m]

I was able to rig it by using the old timing plate. Its not pretty but I think it will work.

 

\

 

Everything is lined up.

 

 

Removed the ballast resistor (saved it) and connected the new coil. The paint cleaned up nice, was SO grimey underneath that thing.

 

 

Need to do a vacuum hose from the hard line as the old hard line was broken and had already had a hose connecting the broken segments. I think ideally I would run a completely new line, but the output from the carb is hard line as well.

 

 

Grabbing a vacuum hose from the parts store then I put the wires back in and try and start her up.

Edited December 1, 2023 by andyZ00m

[andyZ00m]

Welp, she wont start. Troubleshooting time.

 

For the wiring, I simply removed the ballast resistor and connected the wires that used to go to the ballast resistor together with a butt connector. This is the same as jumping it electronically. Seems like the "B" goes to positive terminal of the coil and "C" goes to the negative. I have verified this with the multimeter.

 

The wires were connected on the original dizz as 1-2-4-3 in clockwise order. So I connected them in that same way but startin gfrom the new spot when the rotor was pointing with the new dizzy while the motor was at TDC.

 

Any other ideas on what to look for?

Edited December 2, 2023 by andyZ00m

[andyZ00m]

Gunna do some tracing down of the wiring. On this truck the negative coil wire has two Leads going to it but there is no tacho on this truck. Im wondering if the wiring was weird. On the original wiring diagram it doesn’t show anything but one wire going to the coil and a ground wire. 

[datzenmike]

The second lead on the negative terminal is for using or not using the second set of points it's the Blue/White stripe wire? You can leave it off as you are converting to EI.

 

The positive terminal should have Black/White and a Black/Red wire.