Brake lights

[Rusty Dawg]

Howdy,

 

I recently installed new turn signals in my 1960 Datsun truck which was a breeze.  The rear running lights work just fine, but they do not light up when the brake is applied.  Are the wires connected to the brake master cylinder a good place to start or is that somehow connected to my dash to indicate low fluid?  I don't see a toggle switch anywhere around the brake pedal mechanism, so I am not sure how power is applied to the rear brake lights.

 

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated as always.

 

Thanks!

[Crashtd420]

I though I heard once the 320s used a hydraulic brake switch.... 

I'm not sure where it is....

My guess is on the firewall somewhere... 

[difrangia]

On 320's the hydraulic switch is in one port of the brass 'T' fitting that bolts to the tab on front edge of the cowl shelf just above the distributor and just left of the hood strut rod when viewed from the front of the vehicle. I did away with mine and added a mechanical switch under the dash on the brake pedal arm.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by difrangia

[Rusty Dawg]

28 minutes ago, difrangia said:

On 320's the hydraulic switch is in one port of the brass 'T' fitting that bolts to the tab on front edge of the cowl shelf just above the distributor and just left of the hood strut rod when viewed from the front of the vehicle. I did away with mine and added a mechanical switch under the dash on the brake pedal arm.

I think the "T" fitting you speak of might be on top of my master cylinder.  Does that relay, for lack of better term, work off of brake fluid pressure when the brake pedal is applied?  Maybe the relay is not functioning.

[difrangia]

The hydraulic mechanism is called a sender or sensor and is just a switch activated by hydraulic pressure that closes the circuit to the brake lights. I added a pic of my engine compartment before the rebuild when the original switch was still in place. I'm not familiar with the 2-Series pickups but the sender very could be on the master cylinder, either from factory or placed there by an owner/mechanic over the years. Our 64 VW Bug has the pressure switch on the end of the master cylinder opposite the pushrod. BTW I replaced the pressure switch with one from a 1961-62 Ford car prior to changing to the mechanical switch. I believe that I still have the packaging for the Ford switch, should you like a part number/brand for cross reference. 

[Rusty Dawg]

26 minutes ago, difrangia said:

The hydraulic mechanism is called a sender or sensor and is just a switch activated by hydraulic pressure that closes the circuit to the brake lights. I added a pic of my engine compartment before the rebuild when the original switch was still in place. I'm not familiar with the 2-Series pickups but the sender very could be on the master cylinder, either from factory or placed there by an owner/mechanic over the years. Our 64 VW Bug has the pressure switch on the end of the master cylinder opposite the pushrod. BTW I replaced the pressure switch with one from a 1961-62 Ford car prior to changing to the mechanical switch. I believe that I still have the packaging for the Ford switch, should you like a part number/brand for cross reference. 

Yup, that picture helps.  That is exactly what mine looks like, just on top of my master cylinder.  I need to read up on how to test the sender and how to confirm that power is going to it.  You used a Ford pressure switch to replace the one in your Datsun or your VW?

 

Electrical in not my strong suit, amongst many other things.

[difrangia]

The 61-62 Ford switch was what I used on the Datsun 320. This is the switch that I used. Your parts store should be able to cross-ref. it to another brand if this one is not available.

[nicklp]

You would test it by seeing if you had power at one wire under no pressure, and both wires while pushing the pedal; if yes, trace the wire back to see where you lose it on the way to the brake lights. Always clean any ground. Pics below are parts book, quick and dirty mod in my truck for a switch at the pedal, and the Willwood masters I used for several years (need replacement now). 

[nicklp]

I’m not seeing the edit choice when I post from my phone…. You would just use a meter or a test light to see if you are getting power at the hydraulic switch contacts. The Willwood brake master I used is single circuit, many people suggest switching to a dual circuit and you could probably search for a thread about that. When you say you installed new turn signals, you mean you changed the bulbs, right?

[stevecar]

You can just connect the two lugs together that go to the sensor switch with your key in the run position. If the brake lights come on when you do that, then look at the sensor switch. If they don't come on, check your wiring. You should have 12V at one of the lugs.

[Rusty Dawg]

On 7/8/2021 at 10:52 PM, nicklp said:

I’m not seeing the edit choice when I post from my phone…. You would just use a meter or a test light to see if you are getting power at the hydraulic switch contacts. The Willwood brake master I used is single circuit, many people suggest switching to a dual circuit and you could probably search for a thread about that. When you say you installed new turn signals, you mean you changed the bulbs, right?

No, I replaced both turn signals since the old ones were corroded and beyond just a bulb replacement.  I connected the new ones just like the old ones and the turn signals work.  There are running lights that sit above the turn signals.  I assume that the turn signals were installed by the dealer once this truck arrived in the U.S.? 

[Rusty Dawg]

On 7/8/2021 at 11:39 PM, stevecar said:

You can just connect the two lugs together that go to the sensor switch with your key in the run position. If the brake lights come on when you do that, then look at the sensor switch. If they don't come on, check your wiring. You should have 12V at one of the lugs.

This seems simple enough even for me. Thanks!

Edited July 10, 2021 by Rusty Dawg

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

VW Bug switch works too.

[nicklp]

They came with turn signals from the factory. They are wired American style, so you have one dual filament bulb (#1157). The dimmer of the two filaments is the running light, the brighter filament is both the turn signal and brake light. Mine are Lucas, just like on old English sports cars, I don’t know if they are original or if the originals were close copies of Lucas. Does the stuff on your truck look like this? (and I may have stuck the beehive style lenses on there). 

[nicklp]

And… first pic. Is wiring diagram from the book in the second pic. Third and fourth are from the 223 parts book as the 222 parts book omits those diagrams, but does list the parts:

[Rusty Dawg]

21 hours ago, nicklp said:

And… first pic. Is wiring diagram from the book in the second pic. Third and fourth are from the 223 parts book as the 222 parts book omits those diagrams, but does list the parts:

This is good stuff, thanks!

[Rusty Dawg]

21 hours ago, nicklp said:

They came with turn signals from the factory. They are wired American style, so you have one dual filament bulb (#1157). The dimmer of the two filaments is the running light, the brighter filament is both the turn signal and brake light. Mine are Lucas, just like on old English sports cars, I don’t know if they are original or if the originals were close copies of Lucas. Does the stuff on your truck look like this? (and I may have stuck the beehive style lenses on there). 

Here's a shot of my rear lights with a close up.

[nicklp]

So that’s why I asked if your lights looked like mine; they are different, and someone might have changed the wiring at the back (and maybe it isn’t right).  Still, you would start with the switch and work your way back. Electricity and electronics aren’t my strong points either. Very much one step at a time. 

[Rusty Dawg]

6 minutes ago, nicklp said:

So that’s why I asked if your lights looked like mine; they are different, and someone might have changed the wiring at the back (and maybe it isn’t right).  Still, you would start with the switch and work your way back. Electricity and electronics aren’t my strong points either. Very much one step at a time. 

10-4 and for the record I like your lights better.

[nicklp]

Does yours still have the original brackets? The Lucas stuff is available, real and copies. Search Lucas L488, L594, and L467 (license plate light). I think it’s original, but I’m not totally sure. Datsun might have made their own really similar looking ones. I have a copy of Collectible Automobile magazine from August 2003 that has a piece on a 1959 Datsun 1000 (PLG-220) that really looks like it has Lucas lights on it (last pic, rotated wrong).

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

MGA, Morris Minor, Austin Healey and others used those tail lamps. Those are easy to find.

 

Now if someone could help me find replacement tail lamps for my '57 Land Rover... Seems I have an in-between years setup and I have yet to find even one pic of what's actually on the truck.

[Rusty Dawg]

21 hours ago, nicklp said:

Does yours still have the original brackets? The Lucas stuff is available, real and copies. Search Lucas L488, L594, and L467 (license plate light). I think it’s original, but I’m not totally sure. Datsun might have made their own really similar looking ones. I have a copy of Collectible Automobile magazine from August 2003 that has a piece on a 1959 Datsun 1000 (PLG-220) that really looks like it has Lucas lights on it (last pic, rotated wrong).

Very cool.  Unfortunately, the truck does not have the original brackets.

[Charlie69]

The brackets would not be hard to make providing you can source a set of lights.

[Rusty Dawg]

On 7/8/2021 at 11:39 PM, stevecar said:

You can just connect the two lugs together that go to the sensor switch with your key in the run position. If the brake lights come on when you do that, then look at the sensor switch. If they don't come on, check your wiring. You should have 12V at one of the lugs.

It's been hotter than the devil's ass crack for 2 months now in our Valley, but I finally got out there and low and behold the brakes work when I jump the 2 wires.  I will now get a replacement sensor mentioned on this thread which hopefully does the trick.  Why do I live here?

[Charlie69]

I live in Phoenix and I live here because I can wear shorts, Tee shirts, and sandals all year!!!