R1 Carbs (lots of pics)

[72240z]

Meh I said my piece more then once. You just cant seem to grasp what I'm saying instead rather argue the same thing with shit you have read on the internet or heard somewhere. I dont have the time for that....

 

Are you not an interweb mechanic? Do you have any degrees, formal training, certs etc under your belt? Because if not thats exactly what you are. Thats exactly what you sound like as well. likening something used for 100 years by professionals to a shower cap. Not grasping simple concepts of micron size and filtering principals.

 

Like I said in the previous post though, it doesnt matter in the end anyway.....

 

:thumbup: calling me cheap on Ratsun, really funny btw lol :poop:

[72240z]

Im going to post this again just because it looks that good lol

Let it take us away formt his nonsense.......

[HudsonMC]

Meh I said my piece more then once. You just cant seem to grasp what I'm saying instead rather argue the same thing with shit you have read on the internet or heard somewhere. I dont have the time for that....

 

Are you not an interweb mechanic? Do you have any degrees, formal training, certs etc under your belt? Because if not thats exactly what you are. Thats exactly what you sound like as well. likening something used for 100 years by professionals to a shower cap. Not grasping simple concepts of micron size and filtering principals.

 

Like I said in the previous post though, it doesnt matter in the end anyway.....

 

:thumbup: calling me cheap on Ratsun, really funny btw lol :poop:

 

You seriously aren't reading anything I'm typing, are you? I rebutted each and every one of those points, including my certs and training in my previous posts. I completely grasp your "simple concepts of micron size" and even expanded on them and talked about the technical aspects of filter ratings and dirt tolerance. I already clarified my "cheap" statement. I'm not parrotting anything. This is all stuff from my years of experience and formal education. It's like talking to a brick wall.

 

I really don't know what your deal is, man. I've brought an alternative to the table, and explained in great detail why I think it's better, and all you can do is mock me and try and discredit me? You want to use the socks, go for it. I ain't stopping you, I just won't do it for the reasons I've already outlined. That's your choice. It does not take this sort of childish jeering to disagree with someone though. It's actually pretty hilarious.

[72240z]

Yet you continue lol get over it, move on man I'm long since done.

[HudsonMC]

Yet you continue it lol move on man I'm long since done.

 

Fine. You're done, I'm done. Let's move on. *hand shake*

 

Back on topic: I hope to finish the last little bit of my R1 carb adventure in the next week or two. I just have to find some time between other projects. I didn't take as many pictures as I should have, so it may be a little sparse, but I'll post up how I did it, and the weird little surprise my used R1 carbs came with. The sounds these things make is amazing. I can't get over the noise. Love me some ITBs.

[72240z]

We can agree on that, nothing beats the sound of itb's lol.

[VintageRice]

Yes ITB's are great....yada yada yada.filter this....filter that...

 

UPDATE ! ! ! :D

 

 

Got my fuel screws!! For everyone running these, you might wanna check your screws. The new set comes with a tiny washer and o-ring. I mean TINY tiny. All my carbs are missing these parts......

 

 

I'm gunna go throw these in, try three turns out instead of four like before, and see if it makes the decel popping subside. Just for piece of mind I might put a dab of RTV silicone over the screw head to make sure they never fall out again. And if later I need to adjust them I can just pluck out that little silicone plug and be on my way. They did come with a brass plug there from factory after all.

[VintageRice]

Put screws in. 3 turns out. Fired up nicely, choke works way better now. More consistant. But.........once warm it pops while idleing out the exhaust. pretty constantly. Didnt do that before.

 

On decel, its smooth for about 3 seconds(just enough to get my hopes up the first time) then procededs to pop pop pa pop pop pop p p p alll the way through decel and back to idle..

 

 

 

Long story short is that it backfires MORE now with proper fuel screws 3 turns out, vs. when I was missing two and the others were 4 turns out (pretty much maxed)

 

 

So, any ideas? Maybe I DO need more fuel on idle. I don't know. What I really need is a Wide band O2 gauge. Dangit. Y they so spendy.........

[DAT510]

I liek backfirezzz

 

Wouldn't the popping be cause of too much fuel?

unless the backfiring is a puzzle and is completely opposite of my logic.. (the little I have)

[72240z]

There are different kinds of backfiring, from a lean or rich condition. They sound different. Lean backfires usually sound sharper and rich seems boomy.

 

From your description I would say its rich and due to the tune, lean it out and see what happens.

calming on decel, starting more once warmed up, new screws etc... all lead towards rich.

 

Have you synced them? doesnt help if they are all out of sync

[VintageRice]

Rich huh? Well, I adjusted it leaner(3 turns vs 4 before, and now have more popping. So it got worse leaning it. So????

[datzenmike]

When the throttle is snapped closed at high(er) RPMs the air is cut and the mixture goes rich. It doesn't burn properly in the cylinder but will in the exhaust manifold. L20Bs and Z series engines have an anti back fire valve to prevent this. It's a valve that 'reads' excessive manifold vacuum and opens to let more air into the intake to reduce it.

 

My B-210 had a switch on the speedometer needle so that above 10 MPH there was a solenoid that held the throttle open slightly to allow more air in to prevent backfiring. I noticed that as you slowed below 10MPH the motor would suddenly slow to normal idle as the solenoid allowed the throttle to close properly.

[spudly13]

Just buy a wideband... got mine for 100 new/used, money well spent, I would have kept adding fuel if it weren't for that thing

[datzenmike]

That will tell you the mixture for running, accelerating and cruise but on deceleration manifold vacuum is extreme and the carb is sitting at idle. If you lean out the idle setting to cure the backfire on deceleration it won't idle right.

[72240z]

well if leaning it made it worse idk could be too lean then. Have you synced and tuned? What are you basing turn count on if its always popped?

 

You can buy a used wide band on ebay use it to tune and just sell the thing. I just use the plugs, you can read plugs just as well as a wide band both at idle and speed. Wide band is certainly easier though.

[72240z]

I was just thinking a pot could be used on the throttle linkage to hold them open slightly on decel.

[DADZSUN]

Just buy a wideband... got mine for 100 new/used, money well spent, I would have kept adding fuel if it weren't for that thing

 

+1 You'll likely recoup its purchase price in future fuel savings with a proper tune.

 

Personally, given that the carbs were originally designed for a motorcycle (especially because we're talking about idle), I'd dial it out as much as possible. I'm running 3 3/4 turns out on my L16, with a larger KA24 motor I'd imagine you'll need more (ie: 4).

[VintageRice]

+1 You'll likely recoup its purchase price in future fuel savings with a proper tune.

 

Personally, given that the carbs were originally designed for a motorcycle (especially because we're talking about idle), I'd dial it out as much as possible. I'm running 3 3/4 turns out on my L16, with a larger KA24 motor I'd imagine you'll need more (ie: 4).

 

I had it at 4 turns before and the spring on the screw lost tension because they were so far out, and thats why two of the screws fell out. If I have to go fatter on the idle circuit it may have to be drilled out. Which is fine with me, I just want to make sure its the right direction to go before I start drilling the idle jets. I need wideband.

 

 

So with the 3.75 turns out on the L16, any decel backfiring/popping ? ?

[VintageRice]

Btw, did some reserch and even on the bikes when adding a pipe and filter they bump it up to 3 turns out. So its sounding more and more like lean. The bikes are only less than half the displacement. 1000cc obviously.

[DADZSUN]

So with the 3.75 turns out on the L16, any decel backfiring/popping ? ?

 

No popping on my L16.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure how the idle screw/spring works - but I'm going to be mindful of going any further out based on your discoveries.

 

I'm kind of confused why you're getting backfire/popping on decel or once the engine is warm but not on cold start/idle. Have you tried pulling on the choke lever a bit during decel to see if manually adding gas offsets your symptoms?

 

Are your carbs coughing on idle?

[Z chopper]

Btw, did some reserch and even on the bikes when adding a pipe and filter they bump it up to 3 turns out. So its sounding more and more like lean. The bikes are only less than half the displacement. 1000cc obviously.

 

but like double RPM

[VintageRice]

I'll try pulling the choke on decel and listen carefully. I'm interested too see what happens. Good idea. Why didn't I try that yet....

 

 

[spudly13]

mine popped on decel with open downpipe, i dont here it anymore with full exhaust..

 

Werid question, occasionally when i turn off my car after driving it will....backfire? motor fully done turning, sitting for a couple secs and BOOM it doesnt always do it... and i found if i shut the car off and let slip the clutch at the same time it doesnt do it as loud. Any relation to tuning??

[VintageRice]

mine popped on decel with open downpipe, i dont here it anymore with full exhaust..

 

Werid question, occasionally when i turn off my car after driving it will....backfire? motor fully done turning, sitting for a couple secs and BOOM it doesnt always do it... and i found if i shut the car off and let slip the clutch at the same time it doesnt do it as loud. Any relation to tuning??

 

My snowmobile did that every time i shut'er down. Like clockwork. And my L-motor did too sometimes. Just leftover fuel igniting on that one. Wouldn't worry about it.

[VintageRice]

Ok, adjusted the mixture screws up to 4 turns out. It runs a little better now, takes longer to start popping on decel, and doesn't pop nearly as much or as loud during idle once warm.

 

Also i tried the choke, while decelerating, when it pops most(downshifting) I let it coast and then pulled the choke. It cleared up instantly, no pops at all, and coasted faster like I was pushing the pedal slightly(which makes sense its basically bumping the idle up)

 

 

So anyway, I'm thinkin its a lean popping. I'm thinking I may need to drill out my pilot jets then the mixture screws will be in more of a useable range.

 

 

Anyone agree/disagree ? ?