L16 hesitating, quits and hard to restart

[datzenmike]

OK he said the idle was unstable but it's really only the method used to measure it. It's actually very good. No idle is exactly and unvaryingly 750, it will jumps around 30-50 rpm. I can only go by what's said for descriptions of events. I'm not complaining about this, don't get me wrong. It's a slow tedious process of deduction, questions/answers and eliminating possible causes. 

[Crashtd420]

Trust me we know.... spent all day texting and trouble shooting with dp....

We checked everything except the point gap and the coil....

No smoking gun yet.

[banzai510(hainz)]

point gap

5 min job

[d.p]

Just checked the points...I have dual...and one was right around .020-.022.  I have a feeler gauge of .020 (next highest is .025) and it slides in with a little resistance.  The other one never opens when rotating the motor by hand.  The one that opens looks worn while the other one looks brand new.  

 

In this video the bottom opens right around 0:35 and top one doesn't move.   Could that one be disconnected?  If it is I don't see how it would be because all the wires are attached as far as I can tell. 

 

 

 

Also plugs no longer white...much darker now.

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

the points that is connectored to the bigger condenser is the main points. Make sure this adjust to say 20 thou  blk and red wire I think

 

 

the smaller condenser is connected to the 2nd set of points. I don't even run this one and pull the wire,(believe its a yellow wire with blak maybe)

[d.p]

Even so could that cause my problems?  I disconnected the smaller set of points and again it looks like the other working points is gap'dcorrectly.  Book says between .017 - .021.  

[wayno]

It appears he is using the bottom set of points with the small condenser to run his engine, I have a loose dual point distributor to look at and that is what it looks like to me.

[banzai510(hainz)]

try running it on the single set(with the big capacitor/condenser) time motor to say 10 adjust the mixture and try it out.

[racerx]

Even so could that cause my problems? I disconnected the smaller set of points and again it looks like the other working points is gap'dcorrectly. Book says between .017 - .021.

...if points are bad, no or minimum electricityto your spark plugs. To me points are like switches, bad contact no electricity, which can cause your car idle rough or sound like its missing. Then does not fire spark plugs which causes carbon build up. When system is running properly, electricity thru spark plugs actually cleans it, specially driving at high speeds, high rpm, more sparks.

[racerx]

Speaking of which, do they look pitted? If you don't know burnt or pitted p ok Mrs look like, Google images.

[datzenmike]

Plugs look waaaaay better.

 

Didn't you say you disconnected the condensers and it wouldn't start? Connect them it will. That's not right. Did you connect everything else back up minus the condensers?

[racerx]

Speaking of which, do they look pitted? If you don't know burnt or pitted p ok Mrs look like, Google images.

..meant pitted or burned points..damn auto correct.

[d.p]

Yeah one condenser and points dont do shit. Looks to be the smaller of the two (condenser on the underside of the dizzy) If I disconnect the one working pair the truck won't start. So my truck is running on one set of points as the other don't open/close or move at all. Everything connected but that one condenser/points (removed the wire from the coil that goes to the non working points).

 

I bought an el dizzy which should be here next week. Other than that not sure what else to try?

[datzenmike]

It's the opening set of points that matter. One is 4? degrees later opening so the emissions system can select normal or 4 degrees retarded as it wants.

 

If you disconnect the points yes it won't start but if all you do is disconnect the condenser it should run.

 

 

Find the primary points and throw the other set away. Now it runs at normal advance all the time. Set timing on this set or check it. Maybe your second set are crap and the emissions system switches to them and it acts up.

[d.p]

It appears he is using the bottom set of points with the small condenser to run his engine, I have a loose dual point distributor to look at and that is what it looks like to me.

 

Pretty sure its the large condenser/points I am running on.  The points with the smaller condenser down on the underside of the dizzy is the one I disconnected.  And besides that one looks brand new so not even sure it ever worked, it doesn't look worn at all.  So who knows if it ever worked in the time I'ave owned the truck. 

 

It's the opening set of points that matter. One is 4? degrees later opening so the emissions system can select normal or 4 degrees retarded as it wants.

 

If you disconnect the points yes it won't start but if all you do is disconnect the condenser it should run.

 

Find the primary points and throw the other set away. Now it runs at normal advance all the time. Set timing on this set or check it. Maybe your second set are crap and the emissions system switches to them and it acts up.

 

Nope, if the condenser(s) are disconnected it will not start.  The one working pair of condensers/points has to be connected.  And when I disconnect the condenser I simply pull the pig tail connector coming off the condenser which should not change whether the points open or close.

 

 

 

try running it on the single set(with the big capacitor/condenser) time motor to say 10 adjust the mixture and try it out.

 

I disconnected it earlier today and drove around my neighborhood for a good 15 minutes beating on it in the hopes it would die.  Residential so I can't blast around but did get it up to 40-50 in 4th and no problems.  After that drive is when I pulled the plugs and took that picture.  Still haven't gotten it out and about because I don't want to mess with getting it home if breaks down again.    Timing is 12 at idle right now.  

 

I guess now I can just swap the el dizzy when it shows up and pray to the datsun gods it fixes this problem.   

[racerx]

Last time im asking...have you checked ur points?

[d.p]

Last time im asking...have you checked ur points?

 

YES:  http://community.ratsun.net/topic/72608-l16-hesitating-quits-and-hard-to-restart/?p=1515782

 

Like I already said the one that opens/closes when I rotate the engine is gap'd to .020-0.22 and not pitted as far as I can tell.  

 

I have two other sets of points I can swap if need be. 

[racerx]

If points okay, have u checked ur float, can be sticking, cracked, maybe need adjustment or a pinhole.

[d.p]

It was moving up and down when I took the carb apart a couple days ago.  

 

Took it for a drive, going uphill in second it started to hesitate and have a really rough idle.  Died a couple times and bucked a lot on the short ride home.  Got it in the garage, threw the timing light on it and it was idling around 550-600RPMS which is like 150RPMs less than what I set it to.  It finally died and now won't idle for more than a couple seconds.  So whatever I have been doing is not doing anything to alleviate the problems.   

 

Plugs

Wires

Timing

Carb adjustments

 

None of it made any difference.  

 

I think now I just wait for the el dizzy, swap that in and see.  If that doesn't resolve it I will ship my carb back to weber and have them give it a once over. 

 

I am fucking over trying to figure out what is wrong with this thing.  

[racerx]

Don't give up. Take a break, have a beer. Most of us have been there, its not fun but when you find out what's wrong, its inspirational. Now, just because the float moves up and down, it does mean its all good. It could have a pinhole that's hard to see. You can also go on line and see how to measure the float. The other thing I was thinking is the needle valve, I had similAr issues as you are having and took off the top off the 32.36 weber, measured, float was okay. Come to find out my needle vAlves housing was cracked and would flood the bowl, then later on it would start, then die and spark plugs would get black and sooty.

[banzai510(hainz)]

I think our fixed already if you got up t 50 in 4th. call it good. if goes bad again ck the points again as most new point owners dont do it right and the points will not be open cause they didnt tighten the point lockdown good enough.

 

points closed charges the coil as it grounds the coil. as the otherside has power to it.

when points open it losses power and the magnetic field collapses and goes thru 2nd winding out to the spark plugs

[d.p]

Not giving up, just giving up on today, maybe tomorrow and maybe the next.  Or at least until the el dizzy shows up cause I am out of ideas.    And whatever the problem is its intermittent, comes and goes.  What does a flooded float bowl look like?  I don't even know.  

 

Hainz its not fixed, read my last post before this one.  I never moved or adjusted the points as the gap was within spec of the book.  I am just going to lose the points and go with el dizzy and hope that solves my problems.  Also my dad will be in town this week so maybe I can have a second set of eyes/ears help me troubleshoot this shit because it sucks doing it by myself.  

[banzai510(hainz)]

make sure that EI dizzy comes with the mount!!!!!!!!!

[racerx]

Not giving up, just giving up on today, maybe tomorrow and maybe the next. Or at least until the el dizzy shows up cause I am out of ideas. And whatever the problem is its intermittent, comes and goes. What does a flooded float bowl look like? I don't even know.

 

Hainz its not fixed, read my last post before this one. I never moved or adjusted the points as the gap was within spec of the book. I am just going to lose the points and go with el dizzy and hope that solves my problems. Also my dad will be in town this week so maybe I can have a second set of eyes/ears help me troubleshoot this shit because it sucks doing it by myself.

, its almost like a toilet bowl. If not working right, water will keep on going, in your case gas, and can flood your carb. You can also call pierce manifold in san jose, ca and asked them how much fuel should be in the bowl and how to measure the float. I've seen measurements on line and been a long time since ive measured one. This can be done while u wait for distributor. On another note, hows your dist rotor? Is it kindy snug or does it slide easily?

[d.p]

make sure that EI dizzy comes with the mount!!!!!!!!!

 

It does come with pedestal (mount) and timing plate.   Got it from a member here. 

 

 

, its almost like a toilet bowl. If not working right, water will keep on going, in your case gas, and can flood your carb. You can also call pierce manifold in san jose, ca and asked them how much fuel should be in the bowl and how to measure the float. I've seen measurements on line and been a long time since ive measured one. This can be done while u wait for distributor. On another note, hows your dist rotor? Is it kindy snug or does it slide easily?

 

Well I couldn't let sleeping dogs lie so I went out, checked the plugs (look good) and cleaned out the carb again, drained the bowl and re-seated all the jets.  Didn't measure anything, but after putting it back together and trying to start a couple times the truck came to life and idled which it wasn't doing prior to cleaning out the carb.  What that means who the hell knows at this point.  I can send it to weber carbs direct and they will go through as its under warranty so may just do that IF the el dizzy doesn't solve my woes.  

 

Dist rotor is snug, and I have two others that I can swap if its worth doing.