Franken motors

[willz]

I have been having a hard time finding all the different combinations there are as well as modifications to do so on all the various franken motors for Datsun.

 

The goal:

I'm looking to power my 620 with a streetable/daily driven power plant that would (in a perfect world) make close to 200whp or more naturally aspirated with carbs. Tall order, I know...

 

Currently I have an L20b that is almost 100% stock minus some small upgrades like an electronic distributor and an Isky cam.

I have considered dropping the crank for the napz crank and some oversized pistons and mahle rods, a load of head work and oversized valves, and a set of r1 carbs. I have access to a machine shop as well as a small CNC.

What are my other options in the pursuit of power? I've read occasionally swapping a KA head over, but I don't know if thats really an option and have been having  hard time finding all the parts.

I have also considered a SR20dev on carbs as well as a CA20de.

Any help and links to other similar projects would be greatly appreciated

[metalmonkey47]

200HP is a SERIOUSLY built L series. It would not be streetable.

[datzenmike]

Well two directions here. Rev ultra high or increase displacement.

 

High revving.... keep the L20B crank, it's fully counter weighted. Major head porting, larger valves, monster cam, high compression, multiple carbs/custom manifold, header or L16 manifold, forged pistons and rods. Expensive, only makes it's goal at 8K+ and not practical for the street. Need to more than double the hp.

 

Larger displacement.... KA24E or DE stock but for a cam(s) R1 carbs or small turbo. Very cheap, reliable, docile around town and will last. Makes 150+ hp in stock configuration so you ony need about 50 more.

 

 

A Franken or hybrid motor would be one with two or more engine series internal parts. A CA or SR with R1 carbs isn't what I would call a hybrid.

[jvb5577]

A daily with 200hp you will be looking at a modern motor like the KA, SR, or CA like mentioned.

 

Why do you want 200hp?  I have a LZ in my 620, never dynod but it has plenty of power.  My guess is low 100hp range.

[Sealik]

There's a guy from Canada building a 510 with a Rebello engine....not sure where that thread is.

I believe it's a Z24 block with a KA head.....was dynoed at 200+HP?

 

Not sure if it had side drafts or EFI

[jvb5577]

Rebello is a beast!  I had him do all my work.. minus assemble.  Dave knows his stuff

[Sealik]

Rebello is a beast!  I had him do all my work.. minus assemble.  Dave knows his stuff

 

That engine was 4-sale on the Realm a while back.

I think it has side drafts......very nice.

 

 

Someone find that thread..... :)

[jvb5577]

Found this..

http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12916

 

EDIT:

found it

http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10105

300HP! 45 Delortos and a ton more

[EricJB]

Seems a lot of people are hung up on dyno #'s. Most peak performance engines have a very narrow powerband. Looks good on paper, but not very driveable.

 

The LZ 2.3 in my truck could feasibly be street driven, but would get horrific mileage and would need to be freshened up every 6 to 8k miles. And you would be under the hood making adjustments everytime there was a change in the weather.

 

For a heavy 620, I would go for displacement. Build it to shift at 6k and forget about the #'s.

 

[Sealik]

Found this..

http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12916

 

EDIT:

found it

http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10105

300HP! 45 Delortos and a ton more

 

 

Yup that's it.

His build thread is 'here'..............somewhere.

[jvb5577]

Seems a lot of people are hung up on dyno #'s. Most peak performance engines have a very narrow powerband. Looks good on paper, but not very driveable.

 

The LZ 2.3 in my truck could feasibly be street driven, but would get horrific mileage and would need to be freshened up every 6 to 8k miles. And you would be under the hood making adjustments everytime there was a change in the weather.

 

For a heavy 620, I would go for displacement. Build it to shift at 6k and forget about the #'s.

This is what I told Dave.  I just wanted it to be a great daily driver with plenty of torque.  So far he has delivered.  I wouldn't even want a lightened flywheel with the 620.  In the end it is still a truck, thats the way I see it.  

[jvb5577]

Yup that's it.

His build thread is 'here'..............somewhere.

I want to see what it looks like but the picture links are dead..

[flatcat19]

Um...Jason Grey thread. 

Pinned in the engine section. 

 

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/996-jason-grey-info/

[willz]

A Franken or hybrid motor would be one with two or more engine series internal parts. A CA or SR with R1 carbs isn't what I would call a hybrid.

I know, but I was listing those platforms as things that I could also look towards investing into

 

Like I said, 200 would be a nice figure to be around.. I'm really shooting for about 175 with a solid torque curve. This is something that I would like to eventually only drive on nice days, to events and the drag strip, autocross and possibly an amateur hill climb event. 

[metalmonkey47]

For the record, my built LZ makes 104HP at the wheels in my truck and is very comfortable. Only downside is that with the little 38/38 it's hard to keep it running consistently. When its colder or hotter then normal, it doesn't like to idle well with the big cam, even with proper idle jetting/mixture adjustments. 

 

I daily drive it and get about 15mpg driving it hard, and at best around 17mpg. Not very practical with the small gas tanks we have. Side drafts will be a HUGE step forward for my motor.. Wide powerband and starts building power around 2000rpm all the way up towards 6000, but that's limited by my carb. I have enough torque to break the tires loose whenever I want. Rain driving is actually scary with my stage 1 Exedy clutch, it grabs so quick and so hard that I often find myself spinning tires every time I'm out in the rain. 

[Kirden]

MM47 has a very solid LZ. It was a major surprise to hear that it's only putting down 104hp. I rode in it back when he still had the 32/36 (I think) and it ran strong then even lacking fuel and dripping oil from the head gasket :P

 

If you want to make decent power, follow his build, use hypereutectic pistons (stock replacement mitsubishi) instead of the Mahle and throw a previa or mercedes compressor on it. 2.2L with 9psi and a powerband of 2000-6000 would be ideal. Run it through R1s for their easy boostability. Some people suggest draw through but I can't find a decent plumbing design that wouldn't allow for fuel pooling either in the compressor or the charge tube. That is my overall goal.

 

NA I would follow the standard LZ build and use milled down VG30 pistons. Go with Z22 crank, a closed chamber head, put a ton of $ into headwork, get a cam in the 2000-6500 range, large valves, high compression. Run dual DCOEs or SUs and get it dialed in perfectly. Maybe go up to a 7200 rpm cam, but your bottom band and idle will suffer.

[ggzilla]

Why such poor fuel economy? Large V8s get better than 15/17.

[Kirden]

I get 13 on a sloppy L18 with a 32/36 and no tune... Got 10 on the GM rochester that the PO had swapped onto it when the hitachi died. Really need to find a carb tuner :P

[datzenmike]

I daily drive it and get about 15mpg driving it hard, and at best around 17mpg.

.

I used to be young once. If you drive with it to the floor it will give shitty mileage. MM even with the work done you should get better than 17.

 

Gas saving tips. This probably isn't the most important thing to you right now. But to others ... it does take some adjustment and practice.

 

Drive like your brakes are not working right.

 

Drive with lots of space between you and the next car and try to avoid using your brakes. Just remember that every time you brake you are throwing away the gas you just used to get your truck up to speed. And wearing out the brake linings.

 

Anticipate slow downs and stops and begin slowing well in advance to avoid braking. Lights turning red half a block ahead? let off the gas slowly and let vehicle speed carry you the rest of the way. Sometimes you can slow and allow the lights to turn green before you have to come to a full stop and use a lot of gas getting back up to speed.

 

Avoid hard accelerations and high revving in the gears.

 

Check tire pressure and run the highest recommended that is still comfortable to you.

 

Empty spare junk out of cab and box. Still got your brother's lawn mower in the back? Tools, engine stand?  Everything in your truck has to be accelerated to speed using gas that YOU paid for.

 

Go the speed limit. Too simple.. right? Think about it... what the fucks the hurry? Leave earlier if going to work and enjoy the drive. Don't let other drivers get you into a competition for getting ahead of them in traffic.

 

Wind resistance.... It takes four times the energy to go only twice as fast. Even worse into the wind.

[EricJB]

I have never ran mine on a dyno, But if I go to Wallace racing calculators and put 2200lbs @13.6 qtr mile ET, It says I have 172 HP. No idea what the mileage is, but it's $9.50 a gallon for what it drinks. 

 

I daily drove my bug with dual weber 48 IDA's and got 8 to 10mpg. It idled at 2200 rpm  (600lift/320duration) and the powerband was 5000 to 8500. It can be done, but it's a LOT of work, and $$$.   

[banzai510(hainz)]

Im thinking put a 38/38 weber on there and call it a daily driver  build motor on side and find out its a moneypit and a KA turboSr20 turbo would be the way to go but that is just as much when all said and done.

 

Buy a WRX, turn the key ,hands are clean

[willz]

Meh, I used to build cars for GPMOTO and occasionally do some work for Jarred from PDXtuning but I haven't seen that foolish guy in years. Even though they are great cars, excellent platforms for racing and definitely a great daily driver... they just don't have the same charm as a 60's-early 80's built car, the nostalgia just isn't there for me.

 

and as a side not... my hands are neeeeveeeer clean

[Sealik]

 

His build thread is 'here'..............somewhere.

 

 

Found it...

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/49765-track-day-build-w-troy-ermish-z24-frankenstein-engine/

 

 

 

Good for 200 RWHP

The engine is a "Z24" Naps-Z 2.4 bottom end with a race-ready rotating assembly. This is mated to a KA24E 3-valve head that's been extensively re-worked by Rebello.

Running Ermish's Mikuni 44s on a Nismo intake manifold

[EricJB]

That's a hell of a nice header too.

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

200HP is a SERIOUSLY built L series. It would not be streetable.

Yes, that is a serious motor, but it absolutely can be streetable. It's all in the cam.

 

You can build a 200 HP L series street motor using a stock crank, stock rods and stock but modified pistons for about $3500.