Stupid_fast Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Hi all My current clutch setup has 79 ZX box, L20b, 200mm aasco motorsport flywheel, 200mm roadster OE nissan clutch, T/O sleeve I got with the motor(I think its from a dogleg.... but I don't know for sure.), 510/4spd clutch fork, and a 510/4spd slave cylinder, 510/stock master cylinder My problem, the clutch engagement is about 2cm off the floor, and the adjustments do very little to fix this. I've correctly adjusted the master cylinder, If i adjust the slave cylinder too much the clutch will start slipping and the clutch engagement is still very far down on the pedal. The system is fully bled and working mostly everything is new. After all the adjustment, the clutch felt okay but still was never really grabby at all. I think one main reason is because the front seal on my transmission has gone out, I found trans fluid leaking from where the clutch is. I did try to launch it from 3000rpm once and didn't even chirp the wheels. As my 79 box is trashed and my throwout bearing just started terrible noise(only 6000 miles on it), I'm about to drop in an 83 ZX box and I need to know what I need to fix the clutch setup. Parts I have are the 83 ZX box(I drove this, its a good one), 83 clutch fork, 83 T/O sleeve, 83 slave cyl, and replacement stock 510 t/o bearing. I was originally thinking that the clutch fork and slave cyl from the ZX was needed ? I'm hoping to swap in the new 83 box over the weekend to get my car drive-able again. Quote Link to comment
Silky_Johnson Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you may have the wrong throwout collar and need to have the throwout collar that matches the roadster clutch setup. I believe the roadster and 510 throwout collars are the same. Quote Link to comment
DanielC Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I believe ALL the clutch stuff, (disk, pressure plate, TO bearing, TO bearing collar, TO fork, and slave cylinder) has to match the engine flywheel. It does not change with whatever L-engine transmission you put behind it. I put a longshaft 5 speed Z-car transmission in my 521, and used all the L-16 clutch stuff, except I also used the 2000 Roadster pressure plate. Quote Link to comment
Stupid_fast Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Thanks guys... Here is the only info I have on my current sleeve... I replaced the bearing with a 510 one. This picture was from last year before i put the motor in. So maybe this is a short dogleg T/O sleeve and I need a L16/4spd one? Is there any way to get one new ? Or will I have to source it... I put it in like this... Quote Link to comment
LenRobertson Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 This page: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/30568-i-need-this/page-2 post #24 has a chart of TO dimensions for 200mm diameter clutches. You might measure the height of the TO sleeve you have and compare it to the chart. If Silky is correct about stock 510 and roadster PP being the same height, it looks like you need a 38.5mm height TO sleeve. You may want to Google for roadster PP height to be sure. datzenmike probably has the roadster PP height in his files. I think I used to have a chart of PP heights just like the TO bearing chart, but lost it in a computer crash. I don't know if it included roadster clutches though. More clutch related posts I had Bookmarked that may help you, or not: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/37644-200mm-clutch-discs-and-release-bearing-assembly/ http://ozdat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22180 http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=13221 Len Quote Link to comment
Stupid_fast Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Awesome ! Just what I needed. It looks like I need a 30501-N1601 which is NLA replaced by 30501-N1604. But from the pictures it looks like thats the sleeve I already have ? Quote Link to comment
LenRobertson Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Does the sleeve you have actually measure 38.5mm in height? That's 1 33/64" according to an online conversion if you don't have a metric rule, or about 1 1/2". Len Quote Link to comment
Stupid_fast Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Does the sleeve you have actually measure 38.5mm in height? That's 1 33/64" according to an online conversion if you don't have a metric rule, or about 1 1/2". Len Its in the car right now, that's the problem. Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 T/O sleeve I got with the motor??????????? thats what you need to figure out!!!!!!!!!!!! just to remind people the 200sx with the 5 spped/ Its a 200mm prrse plate but the clutch diaphrame was a differednt height the 510 P/P and the Roadster are the saem height thus interchangable. however I would think one could just use the 510 T/O arm with the adjusttable rod at thr slave cylinder? But dont know actually myself or make the rod shorter or longer to get it right. Quote Link to comment
Stupid_fast Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 T/O sleeve I got with the motor???????????thats what you need to figure out!!!!!!!!!!!! just to remind people the 200sx with the 5 spped/ Its a 200mm prrse plate but the clutch diaphrame was a differednt height the 510 P/P and the Roadster are the saem height thus interchangable. however I would think one could just use the 510 T/O arm with the adjusttable rod at thr slave cylinder? But dont know actually myself or make the rod shorter or longer to get it right. Yeah I got a heap of parts with the car, the motor was a truck L20b, some random parts I just grabbed stuff that looked important... There where 2 L16's in the garage I got the parts from so I thought the T/O sleeve was right. I have the adjustable 510 slave and fork. Adjustment at master and slave still resulted in engagement really low on the pedal. Whatev, I'm going to pull the motor out tomorrow and figure this out. There is a horrid squeal coming from the t/o bearing now and bearing growl in the transmission has been getting worse so I have not been driving it for the past month. I just hate disassembling this car while my ZX is in pieces still. Thanks guys for the help and info, I'll report back when I have everything torn down. Quote Link to comment
LenRobertson Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 the 510 P/P and the Roadster are the saem height thus interchangable. however I would think one could just use the 510 T/O arm with the adjusttable rod at thr slave cylinder? But dont know actually myself or make the rod shorter or longer to get it right. Good to have confirmation that the roadster and 510 PPs are the same height. The adjustable rod might work, but I can't mentally picture where the pivot point for the clutch arm is, so I don't know if there is some leverage thing to overcome. I mean does the clutch rod maybe need to be adjusted a LOT longer or shorter to compensate for the difference in sleeve length? I have no idea, since I'm not good at picturing stuff in my head. If I were doing it, I'd want to get the 510 TO sleeve since that sounds like the proven way to do it. But if you want to do it this weekend, you may have trouble finding the sleeve on short notice. Or maybe a Wanted ad here on Ratsun will get you one right away. Probably good idea to replace the pilot bushing in the flywheel too. I think even some of the discount auto parts places have these and it is easy to stick a new one in. Len Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 No need to "disassemble this car" -- just replace the Throwout bearing. A few hours labor. Quote Link to comment
Stupid_fast Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Good to have confirmation that the roadster and 510 PPs are the same height. The adjustable rod might work, but I can't mentally picture where the pivot point for the clutch arm is, so I don't know if there is some leverage thing to overcome. I mean does the clutch rod maybe need to be adjusted a LOT longer or shorter to compensate for the difference in sleeve length? I have no idea, since I'm not good at picturing stuff in my head. If I were doing it, I'd want to get the 510 TO sleeve since that sounds like the proven way to do it. But if you want to do it this weekend, you may have trouble finding the sleeve on short notice. Or maybe a Wanted ad here on Ratsun will get you one right away. Probably good idea to replace the pilot bushing in the flywheel too. I think even some of the discount auto parts places have these and it is easy to stick a new one in. Len Motor was given to me with my car as rebuilt and I was the first one to run it 7000 miles ago, I'd hope the pilot bushing was new. Flywheel clutch pp ect all 7000 miles. already have a new timken t/o bearing to replace the trashed one. @ggzilla, Yeah usually it does not take too long to swap gearbox but if I don't have a part I'll have to wait for it to arrive. I think I can get it done in about 5 hours tomorrow and still have time to swap the diff. Quote Link to comment
LenRobertson Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I'd hope the pilot bushing was new. Maybe, on the pilot bushing, depending on who did the motor and if they thought of the bushing. When you mentioned "horrid squeal" I thought of pilot bushing, cause I've had this happen on one of my vehicles. I had the clutch on a Chevy van replaced by a mechanic with all new parts except the pilot bushing. Howled like a banshee when the clutch was depressed afterward, until they pulled the tranny and oiled the bushing. But the noise could be the TO bearing too. Maybe when you get the old TO out it will be obvious it is running dry. Len Quote Link to comment
DanielC Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 This is the slave cylinder on the 521 with the five speed. I like the slave cylinders with the spring. This spring pulls the throwout bearing off the pressure plate just slightly, when the clutch pedal is not being depressed. As the clutch disk wears, you adjust the nuts on the threaded rod. Quote Link to comment
Stupid_fast Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Maybe, on the pilot bushing, depending on who did the motor and if they thought of the bushing. When you mentioned "horrid squeal" I thought of pilot bushing, cause I've had this happen on one of my vehicles. I had the clutch on a Chevy van replaced by a mechanic with all new parts except the pilot bushing. Howled like a banshee when the clutch was depressed afterward, until they pulled the tranny and oiled the bushing. But the noise could be the TO bearing too. Maybe when you get the old TO out it will be obvious it is running dry. Len Huh I'm pretty sure I put grease on the end of the trans shaft but I'm not sure it was a while ago. Squeal happens worse when I disengage the clutch, but still makes noise when its engaged. I hope I didn't ruin the pilot bushing. Luckily I have a new one that came with the roadster clutch if I need it. Not as much a horrid squeal as a bearing crunchy growly squeal. What kind of oil does it need? those just need some heavy grease right? from here: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/34889-bad-pilot-bushinghelp/ I'll replace it while i'm in there. This is the slave cylinder on the 521 with the five speed. I like the slave cylinders with the spring. This spring pulls the throwout bearing off the pressure plate just slightly, when the clutch pedal is not being depressed. As the clutch disk wears, you adjust the nuts on the threaded rod. The 510 does not have a return spring. I can't tell you how many times I've adjusted that damn thing. Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 If it is a perforated brass bushing it is supposed to have oil, not grease. I always put a couple drops of oil on it and after it soaks it put some hi-temp grease in the bushing, not on the shaft, because you don't want any getting on the clutch disc when you are installing. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 Usually the pilot bushing is sintered bronze. This is a bronze powder, shaped under extreme pressure and then heated to fuse the particles together. It is somewhat porous and usually oiled and is then permanently lubricated. My 620 FSM says it 'need not be lubricated'. So you can if you want. I would use as little as possible as grease will collect clutch friction material. Quote Link to comment
Stupid_fast Posted January 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 I found the cause of the sqeal. I had installed the throwout bearing backwards. 1 Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Glad to hear you found the problem. Stuff like that happens. Quote Link to comment
Stupid_fast Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Glad to hear you found the problem. Stuff like that happens. Three clutch teeth are shattered. The bearing is completely siezed. :crying: Ah well, I was able to squeeze my 510 into the garage, everything is nice and organized now. Quote Link to comment
Silky_Johnson Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 I put it in like this... Are you saying that you put the bearing on the sleeve backwards or the whole assembly, sleeve and all, backwards on the shaft? Because your picture above makes it look like the bearing was installed appropriately? And that's too bad on your pressure plate :( Quote Link to comment
Stupid_fast Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Are you saying that you put the bearing on the sleeve backwards or the whole assembly, sleeve and all, backwards on the shaft? Because your picture above makes it look like the bearing was installed appropriately? And that's too bad on your pressure plate :( No, the bearing was properly facing the clutch plate. If the bearing was installed correctly, what caused the clutch teeth to shatter and the bearing to seize ? :confused: Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 What does the center of the clutch disc look like, I am talking about the center of it, not the friction pads, where the little springs are? Was you clutch slave rod ever loose, or did the clutch fork always have pressure on it? Quote Link to comment
Stupid_fast Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 What does the center of the clutch disc look like, I am talking about the center of it, not the friction pads, where the little springs are?Was you clutch slave rod ever loose, or did the clutch fork always have pressure on it? When I initially installed the slave cyl rod I believe It was just barely putting pressure on the fork. I really don't think it was loose. I'm ordering a new clutch, I'll see if I can do it right this time. t/o sleeve measured 41mm tall. Yup... RIP OEM roadster clutch Wow, they sell roadster clutch cover for only $110 now. Not bad. Quote Link to comment
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