clutch 5 speed question

[Silky_Johnson]

Edit:  Apparently I type too slow.  I agree with Hainz.

 

That just looks like a different throwout bearing, not that it was installed incorrectly.

 

I ordered a 510 throwout bearing, and I got the same one as Stupid_fast.  The other side of the throwout bearing is just a flat surface, not like the picture that Sealik posted.  When I did my clutch setup, the old throwout bearing looked more like Sealik's.  I installed mine the way Stupid_fast did without any problems.  In fact, I left the old slave and pressure plate and installed a new throwout bearing and friction disc, and the pedal play felt way better for some reason.  I think this is because of applying leverage more toward the center of the clutch fingers, i.e. easier to push than farther out on the clutch fingers.

[Stupid_fast]

Dude its correct!!!!!!!!!!what you got! for a 200mm T/O bearing. the ridge goes toward the fingers of p/p

its fit right in between the finger of the pressure plate

 

fork arm shuld be fwd twards the trans and you can feel just enought slop so its not always pressure on it., You know what I mean.

 

So I did it right... ?

 

> what Sealick posted with the tape measure looks like a 225mm T/O bearing

 

Ah, OK. I didn't realize the 200mm bearing was different. The little 180mm clutches use the same as 225mm T/O bearing.

 

If you are mixing and matching clutch pressure plates this could be important (ie. use one T/O bearing with stock 510 pressure plate).

 

Uhhhh Everything is 510/200mm except the pressure plate is a heavy duty/ roadster unit.

 

 

 

@silky_johnson, okay good to know thanks.  I just freaked out and thought i was going to be pulling the motor again tonight. 

[DanielC]

in this picture,

it looks like the bearing is not pushed all the way on the collar.  but it had been a long time since I replaced the clutch in a Datsun.

[Silky_Johnson]

I just freaked out and thought i was going to be pulling the motor again tonight. 

 

Haha!  Worst feeling in the world!

[Stupid_fast]

in this picture,

 

it looks like the bearing is not pushed all the way on the collar.

 

I thought the same thing and triple checked it, it is in there.

 

The vice would not go any further, it was bottomed out. 

 

 

I just overnighted a new t/o bearing to my house.   :sweat:  

[Sealik]

So I did it right... ?

 

 

Uhhhh Everything is 510/200mm except the pressure plate is a heavy duty/ roadster unit.

 

 

 

@silky_johnson, okay good to know thanks.  I just freaked out and thought i was going to be pulling the motor again tonight. 

 

 

My 510 book shows that exact bearing...installed the same in pic you posted

That pic I posted was for the 240mm clutch...backside of the bearing looks like the front of yours

[DanielC]

After you pull the motor a few times, you get really good at it!

[banzai510(hainz)]

Its correct, install this and lets get a happy ending

[Stupid_fast]

Okay, I put the 510 slave on it.

 

With the adjuster screw all the way back, there is barely 1mm play at the clutch fork... That does not seem right.  Whats going on ??

If I remove the slave cylinder, there is a good amount of play between the T/O bearing and clutch engagement. 

 

System isnt fully bled yet ( ran out of fluid)

[ggzilla]

Did you ever discover what caused the clutch disc to break?

[wayno]

Okay, I put the 510 slave on it.

 

With the adjuster screw all the way back, there is barely 1mm play at the clutch fork... That does not seem right.  Whats going on ??

If I remove the slave cylinder, there is a good amount of play between the T/O bearing and clutch engagement. 

 

System isnt fully bled yet ( ran out of fluid)

 

Make sure that the slave cylinder piston is bottomed out in it's hole, and you have to have enough play to wiggle the rod freely, it cannot be tight, if it is tight, the throwout bearing is engaging the clutch cover fingers which you do not want, as the TO bearing will eventually burn up, you need a 1/16th of an inch/1 mm play, that would likely be an eighth inch+ at the bearing.

Do you have a photo of how the arm/fork sticks out of the side of the case? 

Does it look like it is most the way forward, but not at a stupid angle where the rod engages the fork?

[banzai510(hainz)]

the T/O bearing collar look right and its the short one so it should work.

Install this and run it

[DanielC]

This is a picture of the slave cylinder on my 521.

Maybe that will give you an idea about how the throwout arm should look, in relationship to the slave cylinder.

The transmission is a long shaft five speed, L-18 engine, 200 MM flywheel, and roadster pressure plate.

[Silky_Johnson]

I wonder if the clutch fork pivot adjuster thing inside the tranny is out of adjustment? It might be out too far so that there isn't hardly any adjustment left in the clutch slave?

 

So long as you have *some adjustment in the slave, should be fine though.

[Stupid_fast]

Make sure that the slave cylinder piston is bottomed out in it's hole, and you have to have enough play to wiggle the rod freely, it cannot be tight, if it is tight, the throwout bearing is engaging the clutch cover fingers which you do not want, as the TO bearing will eventually burn up, you need a 1/16th of an inch/1 mm play, that would likely be an eighth inch+ at the bearing.

Do you have a photo of how the arm/fork sticks out of the side of the case? 

Does it look like it is most the way forward, but not at a stupid angle where the rod engages the fork?

 

Its not returning to the bottomed out position after the pedal has been pumped.

 

I just bled the system, the slave can go back about 5mm(with bleeder open) giving plenty of play, but if I push the pedal it will always come back snug against the clutch fork.

 

Its not putting pressure on the t/o bearing, but its probably still contacting the clutch even with a return spring.

 

What would cause it to not fully return ?

 

 

I can finish assembling and test drive tonight  ... I'll check to make sure clutch throw is acceptable, not stressing the plate springs.

[DanielC]

First, make sure the piston on the clutch master cylinder retracts all the way.  If the pushrod for the master cylinder is too long, it will block fluid from returning to the master cylinder.

Sometimes master cylinders have a valve that holds a slight bit of pressure in the hydraulic system. this is to prevent air from getting into the system.  A master cylinder used with a slave cylinder with a return spring may hold a higher pressure in the system than a master cylinder designed to work without a slave cylinder return spring.

[Stupid_fast]

Did you ever discover what caused the clutch disc to break?

possible causes, slave cylinder too tight, wrong t/o sleeve.

 

Make sure that the slave cylinder piston is bottomed out in it's hole, and you have to have enough play to wiggle the rod freely, it cannot be tight, if it is tight, the throwout bearing is engaging the clutch cover fingers which you do not want, as the TO bearing will eventually burn up, you need a 1/16th of an inch/1 mm play, that would likely be an eighth inch+ at the bearing.

Do you have a photo of how the arm/fork sticks out of the side of the case? 

Does it look like it is most the way forward, but not at a stupid angle where the rod engages the fork?

Its not tight, but its snug after i've released the pedal.  Its not putting pressure on the clutch cover, but its still contacting lightly. 

the T/O bearing collar look right and its the short one so it should work.

Install this and run it

hopefully it will run fine ... I hope I have gas lol.

I wonder if the clutch fork pivot adjuster thing inside the tranny is out of adjustment? It might be out too far so that there isn't hardly any adjustment left in the clutch slave?

 

So long as you have *some adjustment in the slave, should be fine though.

 

I do remember seeing two washers on it, but this is the new gearbox that I took from my 83 ZX...(Just dropped a T5 in that car) the 225mm clutch that was in it worked fine.

 

First, make sure the piston on the clutch master cylinder retracts all the way.  If the pushrod for the master cylinder is too long, it will block fluid from returning to the master cylinder.

Sometimes master cylinders have a valve that holds a slight bit of pressure in the hydraulic system. this is to prevent air from getting into the system.  A master cylinder used with a slave cylinder with a return spring may hold a higher pressure in the system than a master cylinder designed to work without a slave cylinder return spring.

I already tried backing off the master cylinder rod to shorten the clutch throw(avoid bending the cover again), there's about 1.5cm play at the pedal.  

 

 

I only have a few things to bolt back on to get it running, I'll mess around with it a bit more tonight.

 

 

Thank you.

[Silky_Johnson]

Sounds like you got it all figured out, so disregard if everything is working fine, BUT it looks like you can get both a new master and slave from Rockauto for less than $50.  Maybe it would be worth it for the peace of mind?

[Stupid_fast]

As long as that sounds okay... that there is not a lot of play at the slave ??  Its the only thing I see wrong and I don't want to ruin another clutch. 

[ggzilla]

The L20B uses a non-adjustable slave cylinder.

[Stupid_fast]

The L20B uses a non-adjustable slave cylinder.

..with a 200mm clutch ?

 

has nothing to do with the motor or gearbox AFAIK. everything should be matched to clutch setup, which is and L16/ R20 clutch setup.

[ggzilla]

Are you using the old L16 slave cylinder with the newer long-shaft gearbox?

 

With the newer type of slave cylinder, just ensure that the Clutch Pedal has 1-5 mm play at the clevis pin.

[Stupid_fast]

Okay so I drove it tonight...

 

Adjusted the master cylinder/pedal for about 5mm play at the top

 

 

Observations:

 

 

Clutch grabs really nice, gearbox feels great.

 

The clutch grabs really close to the top of the pedal (about 1inch in)

 

The slave cylinder has just barely any wiggle clearance at the adjustment

 

 

Anything more I can do, or call it good?

[ggzilla]

Clutch does not engage until the pedal is 1" from the top? That's not good. The clutch should start engaging when the pedal is 1 or 2" from the floor. You could tighten up the pedal -- all it needs is 1mm play.

[Stupid_fast]

Any ideas why its engaging at the top of the pedal ??

 

Other that that it feels great... I just have not been putting it to the floor from fear of putting too much pressure on the t/o bearing ... 

 

I may replace the slave and master just to be safe.