clutch 5 speed question

[LenRobertson]

Going back to the TO sleeve chart for 200mm clutches: http://community.ratsun.net/topic/30568-i-need-this/page-2 it looks like there are noticeable differences in the "L" measurement which might help you to be sure you have the correct N1601 TO sleeve. I'm still not sure your sleeve is wrong for the roadster clutch cover, but I would want to know before putting it back together with a new clutch. Something caused it to go kablooey, and the wrong sleeve is one possibility you need to eliminate. I can't remember if new TO bearings are usually dry, or just slightly greased, and need extra grease before installing. Could your bad bearing have seized cause it was dry?

 

Another thought - I seem to remember you are supposed to have a tiny amount of freeplay at the clutch pedal. I'm guessing just 1/32" but that is just a guess. Anyway the pedal shouldn't be dead tight up against the pedal bump stop. If it is, seems like the TO bearing might be touching the clutch cover fingers all the time, causing bearing wear.

 

Len

[Stupid_fast]

@len, I may have put it in dry but I know you need to pack grease in there at installation.. its possible I did it wrong.

 

I ordered the correct T/O sleeve with the clutch, so everything should be correct.

 

The pedal does have play at the top, I made sure that there was.  There is no play at the slave cylinder adjustment.

[Sealik]

@len, I may have put it in dry but I know you need to pack grease in there at installation.. its possible I did it wrong.

 

All the TO bearings that I've had/seen were pre-greased....installed 'dry'...no issues....ever

Are you sure you installed the correct replacement TO bearing last time around?

[Stupid_fast]

@Sealik, I got it from http://www.datsunparts.com with the disc, pressure plate, and bearing.  It was definitely the correct one.

 

THere is a bit of material cut off the sleeve, I'm pretty sure its the 225mm clutch 42.5mm sleeve. 

 

But I still don't get how this happened if the bearing was in correctly?

[datzenmike]

Hi all

 

My current clutch setup has 79 ZX box, L20b, 200mm aasco motorsport flywheel, 200mm roadster OE nissan clutch, T/O sleeve I got with the motor(I think its from a dogleg.... but I don't know for sure.), 510/4spd clutch fork, and a 510/4spd slave cylinder, 510/stock master cylinder

 

 

@Sealik, I got it from http://www.datsunparts.com with the disc, pressure plate, and bearing.  It was definitely the correct one.

 

THere is a bit of material cut off the sleeve, I'm pretty sure its the 225mm clutch 42.5mm sleeve. 

 

But I still don't get how this happened if the bearing was in correctly?

 

Is this correct?

[Stupid_fast]

@datzenmike, You posted this on another thread that was linked in the previous page...

 

 

Since it measures 41.4mm tall right now (look at pic above to see material ground off...) I'm guessing it was a 42.5mm sleeve instead of the correct 38.5mm(stock 510/roadster) one.

 

you can see the part number on the pressure plate, 30210-20111.  Flywheel is the right size for the clutch disc, so yes everything is as I said.

[wayno]

The rod that goes between the clutch slave and the clutch fork has to have approximately 1/16 inch play, from the looks of it, you had no play at all, you should be able to grab it with your fingers and move it around just a little.

That clutch cover looks like the TO bearing was in it so deep that I can hardly believe the vehicle would even move, and I suspect that either the rod referred to above was to long, or you are using the wrong TO bearing collar, I just cannot see how you could get the clutch fork to push in that far with the correct collar, the clutch fork may move a little over an inch where it is pushed by the rod on the outside of the transmission, but on the inside where it pushes against the clutch cover, it will only move a 1/4 of an inch or there abouts, from the looks of it, your throw out bearing was spinning all the time till it seized and then starting cutting into the fingers/arms of the clutch cover, it should have been vibrating and squealing something terrible.

It does not surprise me that you could not get the tires to spin, as the pressure plate was half disengaged all the time.

[ggzilla]

The release bearing is fitted onto the release sleeve.

You can put it on backwards

 

 

[banzai510(hainz)]

Now im more confused if this is a 200mm or a 225mm????????

 

if roadster its a 200mm andyou want all 510 stuff!!!!!!!!SIMPLE

 

make sure its a Roadster P/P from Nissan or Daiken.

soemtimes if the 519 part number is the same as the Roadster # then all your getting is a weak 510 clutch.

 

in dought this is it

30210-20111

nissanparts.cc on web enter in blank or

russell 866 754 5500

[Silky_Johnson]

@datzenmike, You posted this on another thread that was linked in the previous page...

 

 

Since it measures 41.4mm tall right now (look at pic above to see material ground off...) I'm guessing it was a 42.5mm sleeve instead of the correct 38.5mm(stock 510/roadster) one.

 

you can see the part number on the pressure plate, 30210-20111.  Flywheel is the right size for the clutch disc, so yes everything is as I said.

 

 

There's a lot of weird/conflicting information here.  It looks like the pic above is only for applications for 225mm and 240mm flywheels.

 

If it were me, I would just start over.  Since you have a 200mm flywheel, get ALL clutch components that fit your 510.  Don't get parts based off of the 200mm flywheel, because it sounds like some 200mm parts from other models are not interchangeable.  If you want to use the roadster pressure plate, it will replace the 510 pressure plate without any problems or any need to swap out any other parts.  No worries there as it's just a direct replacement.  What I'm still worried about is the T/O sleeve.  If it were me, I would buy a T/O sleeve from a PL510, even if you think you have the right length sleeve already.  There's nothing like a side-by-side comparison to verify.  I would want to be absolutely sure to have the correct sleeve.

 

I've got to figure that the bearing wasn't put on backwards, because the install picture you gave us is exactly how I installed mine.  Maybe I'm running mine backwards too?  Only my clutch doesn't have any problems.

 

The other thing you mentioned is that you don't have a spring on your slave cylinder?  If you have a threaded rod going to the clutch fork, you are definitely going to need a spring to keep the bearing from riding on the pressure plate.  I figure the same is true for other slaves, but my experience is only on the old adjustable 510 style.  Are there holes to fit a spring from your slave to the clutch fork?

 

And I didn't lube my pilot bushing either.  I read some of Mike's old posts about how the bushing comes "pre-lubricated."  I haven't experienced a single issue there either.  My only concern is that I wouldn't want to be slinging oil or grease around by the friction disc.  Assuming the friction disc is made up of brake pad type material, you don't want to contaminate the surface with anything, especially oil/grease.

[Stupid_fast]

Now im more confused if this is a 200mm or a 225mm????????

 

if roadster its a 200mm andyou want all 510 stuff!!!!!!!!SIMPLE

 

make sure its a Roadster P/P from Nissan or Daiken.

soemtimes if the 519 part number is the same as the Roadster # then all your getting is a weak 510 clutch.

 

in dought this is it

30210-20111

nissanparts.cc on web enter in blank or

russell 866 754 5500

 

I don't mean to be confusing, my bad.  I suck at english.

 

The setup is a full 200mm roadster setup except the bearing sleeve is incorrect which I did not know at the time of installation.

 

 

There's a lot of weird/conflicting information here.  It looks like the pic above is only for applications for 225mm and 240mm flywheels.

 

If it were me, I would just start over.  Since you have a 200mm flywheel, get ALL clutch components that fit your 510.  Don't get parts based off of the 200mm flywheel, because it sounds like some 200mm parts from other models are not interchangeable.  If you want to use the roadster pressure plate, it will replace the 510 pressure plate without any problems or any need to swap out any other parts.  No worries there as it's just a direct replacement.  What I'm still worried about is the T/O sleeve.  If it were me, I would buy a T/O sleeve from a PL510, even if you think you have the right length sleeve already.  There's nothing like a side-by-side comparison to verify.  I would want to be absolutely sure to have the correct sleeve.

 

I've got to figure that the bearing wasn't put on backwards, because the install picture you gave us is exactly how I installed mine.  Maybe I'm running mine backwards too?  Only my clutch doesn't have any problems.

 

The other thing you mentioned is that you don't have a spring on your slave cylinder?  If you have a threaded rod going to the clutch fork, you are definitely going to need a spring to keep the bearing from riding on the pressure plate.  I figure the same is true for other slaves, but my experience is only on the old adjustable 510 style.  Are there holes to fit a spring from your slave to the clutch fork?

 

And I didn't lube my pilot bushing either.  I read some of Mike's old posts about how the bushing comes "pre-lubricated."  I haven't experienced a single issue there either.  My only concern is that I wouldn't want to be slinging oil or grease around by the friction disc.  Assuming the friction disc is made up of brake pad type material, you don't want to contaminate the surface with anything, especially oil/grease.

 

Yes, that chart is for 225mm applications.  There is another chart on the webpage I got that from for 200mm applications stating the correct part number for a 200mm PL510 bearing sleeve.

 

I've ordered from NIssanpartszone.com the following;

 

30210-20111 CLUTCH COVER (Roadster part no.)

30501-N1601 SLEEVE BEARING Replaced by: 30501-N1604 (short sleeve for 200mm / PL510)

32202-09500 BEARING PILOT (for L series, ect)

 

It was unnecessary to replace the flywheel disc, and exedy clutch disc as they are both very new.  I also have a new throw out bearing. I forget which brand, but its japanese.

 

So the slave needs a spring? Makes more sense now.  I will buy a spring to fit onto it. 

My 280zx never had a return spring on it, the ZX turbo did not either.

 

maybe the problem with my clutch throw was that it never properly retracted into the slave cyl because no return spring ?  

[banzai510(hainz)]

show us photos of the T/O bearing when you get it or make sure it like like a 510 one on rockauto.com for a 200mm

 

those springs breack over time. Dont think they are overly needed but if you have one use it

 

My personal opinion even if the T/O collar was from the 200sx if you used the adjustable 510 slave rod I think it would still work. Might have to make rod shorter if you have too. If longer you just dial the half moon nut out more to take up the slop.

 

But remember a long time ago we all said this that you needed the 510 stuff for a Roadster install.

 

going by that photo of the clutch fingers something is definately wrong

[wayno]

A missing spring will not cause the damage you have on that clutch cover, that is caused by continuous never ending high pressure and a likely seized TO bearing because of that pressure, when the clutch is not pushed in, the rod should be loose.

[Stupid_fast]

@Banzai510, Yes I remember that long time ago when you told me about all this. I believed I had all the correct 510 stuff.

 

@wayno,

I think I can reason what happened.  I guess when I initially installed it I adjusted the slave too tight and with the long sleeve, so when I pushed the clutch to the floor it started putting strain on those teeth, and over time bent them.

Then I started having issues where it would not fully disengage, so I adjusted the slave more which bent the cover more, then adjusted the master which bent it even more...   :crying:

 

Oh well, doing it right this time.  Thanks everybody for helping me figure this out. 

[datzenmike]

Glad this is now heading in the right direction.

[Stupid_fast]

Alright, the reason for this post is "AM I DOING IT RIGHT?".

 

510 T/O sleeve with OE KOYO 510 PN bearing from NISSAN correct part numbers pressed together with a vice, bearing moves freely and feels good.  Installed dry/out of box.

 

 

 

Old pilot bushing removed using datzenmike's method of screwdriver destruction, new bearing tapped in with wood block

I wiped my finger with some motor oil, and smeared less than a drop around the inside, no grease was used.

 

 

T/O sleeve recess packed with some grease, and every contact point has a film of grease on it.

 

 

Clutch assembled and torqued to spec from haynes book

 

 

Trans mounted to engine and assembly dropped into car...

 

 

 

 

On problem I've found is I'm using the ZX slave cylinder with the 510 adjustable rod ... Probably caused issues too, I have the old 510 slave laying around i'm going to put it back so everything will be the correct 510 setup.

 

As far as I can tell, there is no issue on how i've assembled everything this time, and it should work well with no issue if I adust the slave correctly? 

[Silky_Johnson]

Exactly what I did, except I did all of my engine work with the tranny still in the call, and that was a BAD IDEA.  It was 100% not fun trying to lower the motor and push it onto the spindle and get everything bolted up in the engine compartment.

 

I've gotta figure the clutch slave isn't that big of a deal, so long as the rod is adjustable and it's adjusted right.  But it can't hurt installing the 510 slave.  My slave has a torn boot, and I think fluid sometime leaks past the piston, since I have to bleed the system every once in a while.  I picked up a slave repair kit from Rockauto for like $7, and it contains a new rubber boot, piston, and spring.  And that spring is the one INSIDE the slave, not the one that holds the clutch fork back.  I'll be tackling that project this weekend.

[banzai510(hainz)]

I picked up a slave repair kit from Rockauto for like $7,

 

I have those also but keep as a repair for the side of the road.

a Roadster pressurepate should use a new slave as the slave gets used to the old slave then then the Roaster is installed it doubles up on that little seal ans soemtimes blows them out.

 

alot of slaves wil fit even the 240sx I believe and early 200sx. Key is buy the new Japan made ones.

[ggzilla]

This is put together incorrectly:

[Stupid_fast]

This is put together incorrectly:

What really ? I don't see how.

 

edit, well FML its coming back out tonight. 

 

This is how I have it installed in the pictures on the first page, and somebody said it was installed correctly ... whatever. 

 

[Sealik]

 

 

 

 

Notice the difference?

[banzai510(hainz)]

Looks correct to me as per my 510.

 

what Sealick posted with the tape measure looks like a 225mm T/O bearing

[Stupid_fast]

Does not make any sense to me.

 

 

This is a picture of the backside of the bearing nissan part No. I2020-101371, koyo part no KOY1758921  that is listed as OE 510 part, if I put it in the other way wouldn't the bearing instantly seize when any pressure was applied to the casing ???

 

I thought that metal race was suppose to ride on the end of the collar.. ?

 

 

Well, okay, I ordered a new bearing. since pulling it is going to ruin it.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Dude its correct!!!!!!!!!!what you got! for a 200mm T/O bearing. the ridge goes toward the fingers of p/p

its fit right in between the finger of the pressure plate

 

fork arm shuld be fwd twards the trans and you can feel just enought slop so its not always pressure on it., You know what I mean.

[ggzilla]

> what Sealick posted with the tape measure looks like a 225mm T/O bearing

 

Ah, OK. I didn't realize the 200mm bearing was different. The little 180mm clutches use the same as 225mm T/O bearing.

 

If you are mixing and matching clutch pressure plates this could be important (ie. use one T/O bearing with stock 510 pressure plate but a different TO bearing with 610 pressure plate).