Brock_Samson Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Looks pretty straight forward... And since im starting a rebuild and be taking alotta parts off I wanna make them pretty first. So I snatched up one of the Craftsman guns and im picking up a electric oven of craigslist tomorrow.. If anybody has any tips on prep or supplies to pick up Im all ears.. Otherwise I'll update u guys as I go, learn as I go :) Quote Link to comment
Z chopper Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 when coating with the powder make sure the air is bone dry, the less moisture in the air the better the powder adheres to the metal Quote Link to comment
Creepy Cruiser Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 We powdercoat in our shop using the craftsman gun all the time. It actually gets used way more than our big gun. The nice thing about it is, since it doesn't hook to a compressor, you don't have to worry about moisture. (like chopper said, moisture is bad). Also clean, clean clean your parts, is very important. Pre-baking your parts also helps with out gassing. When we do valve covers, we prebake them 3 times before we actually coat them, to make sure we get as much oil baked out of the surface that we can. Quote Link to comment
Radim Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 My brother bought a Harbor Freight gun a while back ago, sat for about a year before we started using it.. It actually coats really well given you prep the item well.... We seldom use it to powdercoat small things that fit in our small eletric oven (The tiny ones). although we have a variety of powder paints already. Quote Link to comment
jrock4224 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 got any questions shoot me a pm ......its what i do for a living(powdercoating).. nice job on that valve cover... i love wrinkles but the colors are hard to clean oh and never use a oven you plan on eating out of.... Quote Link to comment
Creepy Cruiser Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 got any questions shoot me a pm ......its what i do for a living(powdercoating).. nice job on that valve cover... i love wrinkles but the colors are hard to clean oh and never use a oven you plan on eating out of.... What, you mean I can't bake cookies at the same time, like they did on the Power Block? lol Good to know we can hit you up with any questions, Thanks. Always good to get real info from a pro. Quote Link to comment
Brock_Samson Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Ok Jrock question for you... How much does it usually cost to do a frame? if i prepped it completely, say like a 521 frame with like a standard color, estimated ofcourse... Im on ebay looking for a couple colors to try now.. any recommendations on brands or warnings of "gimmick terms"? what are other good tools to have? do i need to soda blast/media blast parts first? do they need to be scuffed? wire brush? chemicals (acetone or thinner)? is there a adhesion promoter i should use or some kind of a primer (i noticed a zync enriched primer whats that for)? is there metals that its works better or worse on? got my professional powder coating oven lol,.,. fits like a glove, actually really nice for $40 bucks.. Quote Link to comment
flatcat19 Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 The big Harbor Freight blast cabinet would be nice to have. Regardless of what you use it for-would be great either way. A dedicated booth to blow the powder, and a vent/vacuum system in there would help immensely! Quote Link to comment
Shagy Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 this thread has inspired me...i'm CL'n for a oven. I found one with a interior dimension of 27.5"....$85. But cannot buy it until I get my garage. I think Tiger brand is decent. - trying to remember what I learned/heard when I was doing powder coating in Texas. Quote Link to comment
Radim Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Tiger Drylac is good powder definitely, use it on most of my wheel restorations. Quote Link to comment
mklotz70 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I got mine here.... http://www.powderbuythepound.com/ Brock.....with your new oven...you can test the temp to make sure it's readout is accurate. Put something in thats pretty heavy and dense like a brake rotor or drum. Set the oven to your powder's recommended temp...let it stabalize.....take a reading off the rotor with a non-contact thermometer(infra-red kind). It will give you the real temp your metal will be at when you bake your parts. If it's not the same temp as the readout, raise or lower the oven temp and give it some time for the rotor to stabilize. When you get the rotor to the right temp, take note of the oven readout. Next time you bake, you can set it to that setting and know that you're not going to be too hot or cold. My oven was off by about 40 degrees if I remember right. If set to 400, the part got to well over 400. There's several powdercoating forums out there with lots of info. Eastwood.com has supplies and info too. Quote Link to comment
Npdavies. Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Eastwood has a nice chrome-esque powder, which works nicely. But the cheap Harbor Freight powder and coater both work well. Quote Link to comment
Creepy Cruiser Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I buy most of my powder at http://www.powderbuythepound.com/ also. Quote Link to comment
Laecaon Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I buy most of my powder at www.powderbuythepound.com also. While I dont powder coat, I have done enough research to know just enough to get me in trouble... I too would buy from this site. Wide range of colors, and in the amounts you want. I am planning on doing some powder coating, but the oven is holding me back (lack of 220v, and having to go custom size for what I want to do). Quote Link to comment
Brock_Samson Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Awesome tips.. yeah ill have to track down a laser temp gauge.. and that powder by the pound site is tits, but seams like you have to order a substantial amount to get descent shipping? yeah i have been eying the blast cabinets, i havent seen any powder at harbor frieght though.. its right down the street so i may go look again soon. wouldn't mind starting with cheap powder to do some test runs. Quote Link to comment
Npdavies. Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Should look like this: Can't go wrong with black for some trial runs. It's like $5 for that container, and it lasts a while. Quote Link to comment
Creepy Cruiser Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 HF stocks: White Red Yellow Matte Black Quote Link to comment
jrock4224 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 whoa i should check back.... special tools , not really a comon d/a for some prep on aluminum sheet or clean brand new stuff...mostly any sanding is when something is done and it needs to be sanded and recoated(180 to 220 d/a, anything higgher i wet sand with like 600 if its a custom part that is getting candied or cleared for a super glossy shine)..like any refinishing your prep work directly affects the result.. ..solvents....mek is a nice one... thinner is so low quality anymore since most companys are recycling... anything thats too hot of a solvent will soften powder...although we only use solvent to wipe down after prepp on large aluminum cabinets and what not to get finger prints off.... anything wiped with solvent, even if evaporated should be cyled through the oven for at least 20 minutes...my oven is gas fred elctrical controlled so no moist solvents...but we still cycle it through... as far as substrates and how they coat.... sheet aluminum we usually hand prep as blasting even with baking soda would warp light guage material...usually the pluminum we do is one and done no muliple coats... we suse a conical tip as the flat sheets get more uniform that way as apposed to the wide flat tip...exact opposite of my liquid paint knowledge....by the way we cook sheet aluminum at 375 for 20 mnutes as it gets up to temp real quick and most powders cure time is 15 minutes at 400 which most stuff takes ten minutes to get to temp... mild steel...tubing and what not....blast, blast blast....if your product can take blasting i reccomend it big time....once blasted blow off no need to oven time or preheat...ground teh part and go... cast aluminum or steel....this is a bitch... are procedure for cast is researched and trial anderrored to get to this point...i will use a manifold as example... first we parts clean the manifold let dry..most we do are new or precleaned by customer but we still get a lazy customer now and again.... then its placed in the powde4rcoating oven for anywhere from 4 hours to a full day. depending if i forget to grab it or not ... most stay a full day ... that is to open up the pores and sweat out any greasy before blast....then we mask it up with black duct tape, high quality duct tape, cheapo melts and is a bitch to get back off after blasting... after its blasted un masked and back in the oven for a hour or so just long enough to heat it up and mkae sure theres no grease still...if so back to blasting and duct tape... if its then ready to go we mask up all the gasket surfaces with high heat tape... green high heat tape...and hang it on a cart.....then when its time to coat we place the cart in the oven get the part up to about 250, just warm enough to grab powder...pull it out, roll it in the booth and very carefully apply a even coat ... when part is hot be very careful to no pound it on ... with the part being hot it will take alot of powder and it will run upon full bake... now we roll it in the oven at 375 for about ten mintues enough for the part to gel about 50 percent... ull it back out hit it with a second coat ...full cure for the next thirty minutes on 375... we cook at a LOWER TEMP ON CAST PARTS...i dont useanti gassing primer it works but is real lumpy and sacrifices the top coat..so i figured out this ittle scenario that works in lieu of ant gassing primer.. one thing to add on pre bake is if u get the part to hot and up to full temp ...we shoot a little coat on and then let the part cool for about ten minutes depending on what it is or relating to size and thinkness...then roll it in for full cook.... Anything thats a rail outside or gate or the likes we sandblast and prime with a dupont epoxy powder primer and top coat appropriate colr....anythign that is a mutliple coat process should be falshed for ten minutes at 400 and a second coat can be appplied... sand blasting... we use a combination of garnet sand walnut shells, through extensive research we found out mix produces a great adhesion and a small enough tough in the steel to coat over and get a near pristine finish with little to know hand prep...lot of epople use black iron slafg and its fast but your material looks like 80 grit sand paper too... and coating over 80 grit , while sticks good, looks like shit... ground... ground ground, make sure your part has sufficent ground... no ground no stick ... powder is charged part is grounded and thats the only way to get powder coating put on successfully...my booth has a ground rod built in thats sunk in the foundation and is sub terrainian by tens of feet...remember once u put something on a cart now your cart is also needing ground , never use poly wheels ... no ground....we also use a clip attached to 8 guage and connected to that ground strap to ground individual part on that cart as we coat...there is nothing to subsitute for yor connection...alot of shops think preheating everything is the way to go but those are alos the budget shops that will not blast and coat over paint and oil and ruin the finish product...thats not me i will lose money to do it right before i will ever apply some business practices that coaters use to get stuff through quicker... settings of kv... 80-90 first coat or single coat colors like non metallic or candys... 30-45 on recoat and or candys... the lower the kv the harder to get powder on...but if u put a ton of voltage into your second coat or kandy u getspark marks that will look like little explosions in the finsih coat and while still in powder form.. there easy to spot and even easier to here... my shops loud, hearing protection required loud, and i ca nbe out back loading a truck and hear the distinct bad gorund or to much kv spark mark sound....sounds like a spark plug on firing ....its not loud but very distinct and discernable... not gonna lie candys are a bitch ... black chrome is near impossible ...i do most of those colors cause paint is my back ground...and my other coater can bang out rail and gates all day if i dont slow him down with a multi coat candy job... but i do alot of them so some weekends i can put twenty hours in just doing custom kndys... black chrome... i never liked it ... from the factory on stock or repo wheel sthe black chrome is sprayed liquid and u can see how even it s going on while powder till u cure it u dont see the ligt or dark areas...both are oven cured but being able to see the product going on and how its laying out is imperative....the colors of candys i got daown there easier but the black chrome, even though no customer complained ever me personally do not like the look....i can see it cause its what i do all day..and the customer that wants black chrome is always the beat to shit pealing chrome 22 from les schwab guy that never cleaned his wheels and there ruined but he wants black chrome now... i kindly steer them in other directions...black chrome is stricly for brand new wheels...if at all.. i have near chrome and its cool but i am sick of it and do way to much of it... first i wish they would change the name to polished aluminum... cause it resembles that more than chrome...its a 3 step process too...white primer...the near chrome... ( which before clear is so brite and chrome looking but wont take a finger print with out discoloring..) thern a high gloss clear which dulls it out...uncleared near chrome looks shiney than cermic chromex finish when done ...this product is very sensitive to kv...andt he spark marks look darker so i cant force powder onto a part with much ease.... a way to adjust this when i am spraying is distance.....if i have a cavity thats faradaying me ( pushing powder away) i back off another six inches and use a quick circle to double my powder cloud and stir up the charge and powder usually takes better with a closer atomization in relation to the cloud... as far as ovens the one picture is fine for small jobs... and no dont cook or eat out of it again despite what stacy david or some other mullet havng dude on tv says... must cook at 400 if u cant get to 400 u have a hard time getting full cook...like i said thicker takes longer .... my oven is 26 feet long and has a 9'x9' opening...so i struggle with hot and cold spots and burner plates that are inconsistent...but all in ll my oven does a great job just tough nesting stuff on different carts and color....and never cook dry powder that are different colors... my moves a ton of air so it can distrurb the powder when poutting it in and cause color transfer...if we cook mulitple colors we will flash one cart 7 minutes get it jelled and then falsh the other cart till jelled then we can cook both for 20 minutes with out any transfer... my sand blaster cabinet/garage is roughly the same size as my oven so e do some pretty big stuff....but oiits all farr 30 dust collected and fresh air piped in ...its acctually quite pleasant to blast and i frequently blastcar projects and sheet metal for personal stuff ...lots of brainstorming time in the blaster...two weekends ago i blasted the goon front clip took about 45 minutes and everything from the windshield forward was bare and clean and read for metal work...por 15 is a bitch to blast off for a heads up...my oven is gas fired and electric controlled....it runs about 5 k to run it, my two compressors and all the shop lights in 10 k square fooage building.. for thiiry days and i could cook about 2500 turkeys at once...last months power outage for a week saved me 1500 to pse...but i like to make money so i need power... myfunny story my buddy called and asked if i needed a generator for work he had a 6500k...i said i could run one compressor or half the oven but nothing else so thanks but no...hahahaha common myths... u have to preheat and it increase adhesion....NONONONONOONONONO No.. .preheating does nothing or adhesion...other then allow your cloud and transfer effieciency to go up.... it does not make the powder stick better.... we only preheat , only only only preheat cast stuff and mainly couse alot of the manifolds and larger water valves we do have nooks and crannys and those create faradays that chase powder away but if the part is hot the powder sticks through melting as apposed to conductivity... u can coat over anything on metal... WRONG... i cant say this enough blast blast blast....if it aint clean it will ruin your project...paints leach and gas out... grease melts and streaks anywhere and everywhere...prep is everything in this industry if you dont prep right dont be shocked when your part looks poopy... shhsshi al probably forgetting something but just ramble typing now...powder by the pound is nice there powder is kinda different to spray... not ground up fine enough... and no u cant grind it finer yourself... i have used it before ... i use alot of dupont allesta, cardinal , tiger drylac, forrest, sikkens... and most all my custom kandys and neons and wrinkles come from prizmatic powders...if anyone needs powder i will be happy to furnish and or middle man what ever someone needs just let me know ... i have close to 500 colors in stock...and aybody that wants to experiment i got a shit ton of 50 pound boxes of a misshipment for some office furiture i would be happy to give away ... if you like off white etxture and a darker gray...i ot about 1800lbs of it left over after they went out of business... anyway i gotta go buy my crew lunch and check back later today to see if i missed anything.... and like i said i can blast anysize datsun and have blasted two 521s and several 510s so far... i do a shit ton of muscle cars and street rod bodies... u can check my threads about jesus's projekt left hand 521 truck... which got back burnered buy south paw... jesus's 510 ...and now my wagon... i think my wagon thread has some pics of the blaster when i blasted the front clip ... 1 Quote Link to comment
jrock4224 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 laser temp guage very handy in a 26 foot oven for checking part temps... as fun as going in and out of a 400 degree oven all day is ... its nice to be able to check temp from 20 feet with only a little temp drop due to reading distance...we got a couple kicking around since when u need something u can never find it... Quote Link to comment
Creepy Cruiser Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Great info dude! Thanks. It looks like we are doing just about every thing correct here, lol. I did have a quick question though about top coat clearing. I've read so many different ways that guys recommend it to be done, what's your personal way? (let's say : a nice prepped piece of tube like a bike frame, a nice metallic silver, and a clear top coat). What's your favorite baking formula? Quote Link to comment
fivetenzen Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 I get my powder at Roseyspowdercoating.com good product and fast shipping - Cheers Quote Link to comment
Brock_Samson Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Great info dude! Thanks. It looks like we are doing just about every thing correct here, lol. I did have a quick question though about top coat clearing. I've read so many different ways that guys recommend it to be done, what's your personal way? (let's say : a nice prepped piece of tube like a bike frame, a nice metallic silver, and a clear top coat). What's your favorite baking formula? why would you need to clear over something? can u just clear a part with out painting it? do transparents need a base coat? can you do one color then take it out of bake, spray it a different color and bake it again? can u color one side of and object, bake it, then do the other side and bake it again?? or will the side u did before get over cooked?? what happens when u over cook something?? Quote Link to comment
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