Laecaon Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 My front end is stock. I hit the bumpstops on the LCA from lock to lock. Quote Link to comment
datsunpilot Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Yea thats true. Is there a way to get the tires to turn more? more angle? Sounds like the better ratio in the 210 would help the situation but not add any actual angle. Quote Link to comment
Laecaon Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Cut out the bump stops? Really, unless you are drifting, or really like making tight parking lot turns, I dont see a point. My 510 is already the tightest turning car I have ever driven. Turns tighter circles than a VW rabbit (1979) Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Ok so I am going to bring this back from the dead as I have been doing my own research on this topic and should have just come here and find it all in one feel swoop - you guys know so much its scary lol So my 510 has 430k miles on it - maybe the stock steering box, its loose to say the least, feels like driving a second gen cummins. I want to replace/upgrade it so I am looking for a 210 or 610 box I suppose. From what was said earlier will I gain any more actually steering angle on the tires when they are turned on either of there boxes or is that as I suspect from the suspension geometry itself. Most 510 owners get the box from a latter '79-'81 HL510. As far as I'm concerned the 610/710/S10 and S110 boxes look close enough too. A longer pitman arm makes for a faster more responsive turn of the wheel, but it comes at the price of more effort. A longer arm would also turn the tires further but likely there are stops to prevent this anyway. The 620 has a steering ratio of 19.8 to one because of the heavier loads carried. In comparison the 610's ratio is 16.48 to one. I have no idea what the original 510's was Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 A longer arm would also turn the tires further but likely there are stops to prevent this Correct. The longer arm won't turn "more angle" because even the stock box and stock arm can turn the angle to the full. The common 210 box is 15:1. Turns faster, requires more effort, and won't turn angle any further than the stock box. Quote Link to comment
datsunpilot Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 MR2 rack how difficult is that. I like the idea of a rack. I searched but didnt see anything about it. It makes sense bc of size. Most 510 owners get the box from a latter '79-'81 HL510. As far as I'm concerned the 610/710/S10 and S110 boxes look close enough too. A longer pitman arm makes for a faster more responsive turn of the wheel, but it comes at the price of more effort. A longer arm would also turn the tires further but likely there are stops to prevent this anyway. The 620 has a steering ratio of 19.8 to one because of the heavier loads carried. In comparison the 610's ratio is 16.48 to one. I have no idea what the original 510's was wow that is a higher ratio huh. i found a few when I called around I might jump on. My two concerns are that right now it feels like I am driving a car steering by rope lol and that it would be nice to have a better feel, ratio and more angle/lock/what have you if I upgrade it. Really, unless you are drifting, or really like making tight parking lot turns, I dont see a point. My 510 is already the tightest turning car I have ever driven. Turns tighter circles than a VW rabbit (1979) I do use the car to slide around and as short as the wheel base is it comes around quickly. I dont think my turns that tight for a little car. It would be nice to be able to turn the wheel more, like my old volvos and bmws... Quote Link to comment
Laecaon Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 One test I have of all of my cars is to be able to turn around in a residential street. My 4 cars I have owned :89 300se, 93 Thunderturd, 01 Jetta, And my wagon. The wagon has the best turning radius of those 4, followed surprisingly by the 300se, then the Jetta, and finally the Thunderturd. Quote Link to comment
oldskoolvws Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 VWs are a hard ticket to beat on the twisties. My Scirocco is a pretty well built 8v and it makes turns look like straightaways. Keep in mind, when hitting turns with equal HP, front wheel drives typically outperform rear wheel drives because the wheels are pulling the car, not pushing it. Where it gets pulled to, is where it goes. Pushing results in back end drifts, etc if not driven properly. Quote Link to comment
q-tip Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 a new box is a good start, i know my 510 doesnt feel like my 2nd gen cummins Quote Link to comment
ggzilla Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 yeah my engine turns real sharp (cummins make engines, not cars) Rear wheel drives typically outperform front wheel drives primarily because the weight balance. Even a 510 is far better balanced than most FWD cars. There are also other advanges. Ferrari, BMW and virtually all performance brands use RWD. Quote Link to comment
oldskoolvws Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Lots of Datto support here: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/rabbitgolf-mk1-vs-datsun-510/47455/page1/ Quote Link to comment
Laecaon Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Again though, MK1 Rabbits, and Sciroccos are ridiculous. They turn so quickly and go right where the tires point. My mk4 jetta has oversteer... Back end loves to kick out for some reason. Quote Link to comment
oldskoolvws Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 My mk4 jetta has oversteer... Back end loves to kick out for some reason. some typical reasons: tires weight ratio hot-icy roads camber / toe full cooler of beer on front seat and not in hatch suspension setup cops doing the spin maneuver its a MK4 :angel: Quote Link to comment
mrbigtanker Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 wow a scirroco,that is nice what year 1977 or 78 Quote Link to comment
oldskoolvws Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 wow a scirroco,that is nice what year 1977 or 78 1978 Champaign II Edition, only came in White with with sport stripes you see in pic. Even more rare, only MK1 "white cat" car, the emblems are on a white background verses the typical black. MK3 2.0 bottom, Eurospec 8V head, Shrick custom 272 cam with 5 speed FN trans. Picked up not too long ago, original PO did the work. In the process of changing it around to make it my own. Also have a 77 Golf that I've been working on for ever. That's a secret motor setup for now. Quote Link to comment
Uber Deaf One Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 This pic is a couple months old. My 510 can leave my buddy's Scirocco in the twisties really easily. He also had an older Rabbit before this that was completely gutted and even that couldn't keep up. If a VW is outhandling your 510 something is wrong lol Quote Link to comment
68Datsun510 Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I remember when i thought setup and mods equaled performance. Then, at the last shasta event, i got my ass handed to me by a STOCK 510 on good tires. Not to mention, this 510 had moss growing on it... Dude knew how to drive.... I have also rode along with some friends on Thunderhill. 190HP KA24E/twm induction. Built by rebello in a VERY sorted 510. Add a great driver, and we were routinely passing cars with over 200 more HP. Skills bro. Quote Link to comment
oldskoolvws Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Thats a triple crown right there, Scirocco, AE86, 510. But to be honest, my MK1 Scirocco would likely eat this MK2 Scirocco for lunch. Its factory height, factory wheels and not exactly the most ferocious looking, but that's all assumed from one picture. Might have a 1.8T under the hood for all I know. But if we want to do generation engine swaps like so many Datto owners do, then there is trouble for the rising sun for sure, quick search reveals: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQOY8HMsREI <<<---Holy Shit! www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHiruuQyibA www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArkPBVmQq9U It all depends on setup and more importantly skills. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 + 1,000 lb rear springs and somewhere around 300 lb fronts with 1 to 1 1/8" front only, sway bar. That should get you through the twists. Quote Link to comment
Wisk Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 You can fix this probelm with some JRZ's. http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/pts/3053898859.html Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Yes, those struts and removing that much money from your wallet would really drop the curb weight. Quote Link to comment
Uber Deaf One Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 If you only knew. Do explain? Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.