ethanol concerns

[herculesinwyoming]

recently e-10 gasoline became the standard out here in wyoming, super unleaded is still ethanol free.

 

are there any issues with running e-10 in my old datsun? i figure i would ask before i fill up my freshly cleaned gas tank.

[datsunaholic]

It can do a number on certain types of rubber fuel lines. I've had some melt and goo up the system. But it's not universal, and seems to happen more with ones that sat with the stuff in it for long periods of time.

[Laecaon]

e-10 is just 10% ethanol right? Oregon has that at all of the pumps for regular through supreme.

 

I dont like the stuff, but its all we have. My mercedes dropped 1 mpg by switching to it...

[Hoosier77]

e 10 is just the beginning!!! here we had e 12 and now up to 25% ethanol, our fuel mileage went way down!!!! our lawn mowers, weed eaters, cars and trucks all need constant maintenance. Its god damn bull shit is what it fucking is!!!! do you have any idea the corn it takes to make a gallon of that bull fucking shit!!!!!!! our boat wont even run worth a fuck, the motocross bikes are gummed up. The shit eats fuel lines, float bowls, carb gaskets, reed valves, primer bulbs, and even the fuel tank itself!!!!!! I hate it, there wasnt anything wrong with 100% petrol or even leaded gas for that matter!!!!! we have trillion gallon of the shit and they still want to put alcohol in it and jack the price up to 4.08$ per gallon!!!! BULL SHIT!!!!!

[Stupid_fast]

Is this stuff in California?

 

Is there anything I can do to prevent damage to older engines?(90's toyota and my datto)

[datsunaholic]

The West Coast has been running 10% or more Ethanol for a while, and 5% before that. California required 5.7% in 2004, but used MTBE before that (then it was banned- pick your reason, it was claimed it was due to groundwater contamination but the supporters of the ban were the American Corn Growers). Most West Coast stations were running 10% ethanol by 2005, whether placarded or not.

 

 

The only prevention is don't let it sit. Use it quick. And NEVER use it with a fiberglass-lined tank.

[Stupid_fast]

The West Coast has been running 10% or more Ethanol for a while, and 5% before that. California required 5.7% in 2004, but used MTBE before that (then it was banned- pick your reason, it was claimed it was due to groundwater contamination but the supporters of the ban were the American Corn Growers). Most West Coast stations were running 10% ethanol by 2005, whether placarded or not.

 

 

The only prevention is don't let it sit. Use it quick. And NEVER use it with a fiberglass-lined tank.

 

Oh, is this why my toyota only gets 19-20mpg when its rated at 22?

[datsunaholic]

MPG ratings are... overrated.

 

I can tell you that I get very different MPG with ARCO crapgas than I get with COSTCO or Safeway gas. Or 76, which does pretty good too. Shell is high-ethanol around here, as high as ARCO (10% MINIMUM) Ethanol has lower energy per volume. It's used as a catalyst (reduces CO emissions), but it's a bad choice. Before that it was used as an anti-knock additive. It wasn't very good at that either. But it's what's popular and nicely subsidized right now. Because the EPA requires catalysts in the fuel, once the supplier for the region switches to ethanol you're pretty much stuck. You can go looking for the rare non-ethanol gasoline, but expect to pay a LOT more upfront.

[Laecaon]

Oh, is this why my toyota only gets 19-20mpg when its rated at 22?

 

Part of it. Ethanol doesnt contain the same power that regular old gas does. So when substituted in, our engines create less power, and therefore less gas mileage and efficiency. new cars do alot better on the stuff, mostly because they were designed in a time where ethanol was being actively used.

 

Chevy has their engines that can run on E85 ethanol (I think 85%) and gets good mileage, but the engine is designed for it.

[hellamikey]

ethanol fuel = less mpg, corroded hoses and gaskets, and oxidized aluminum.

 

but its a bit lower on emissions, and that's what counts right?<_<

 

nuke the whales.

 

 

Btw, if you're running straight ethanol in a gas motor, you need to increase fuel flow around 30%. So there's your metric for how much mileage you'll lose with any given ratio...

[Hoosier77]

heres the clincher, when alcohol is added to gasoline it also allows the water in the storage tanks at the fuel station, in the trucks etc. to mix with the gas, so instead of even an ethanol gas mixture your getting an ethanol water drenched concoction of bull shit!!!!!!

[Laecaon]

but its a bit lower on emissions, and that's what counts right?<_<

 

Btw, if you're running straight ethanol in a gas motor, you need to increase fuel flow around 30%.

 

It requires 30%more fuel.

 

After you calculate the actual range of ethanol compared to gasoline, you find ethanol has more emissions. It creates more ozone. It also makes 19%more C0₂.

 

A study by atmospheric scientists at Stanford University found that E85 fuel would increase the risk of air pollution deaths relative to gasoline by 9% in Los Angeles, USA: a very large, urban, car-based metropolis that is a worst case scenario.

[datzenmike]

Straight A needs 13-14 to 1 compression to use it efficiently. Using A in a regular motor is like running gas on a 4 to 1 compression motor.

[DISLEXICDIME]

This threas is exactly the reason I tell people not to go over 10.1.1 comp on there l motor's. This shit gas shorten's your engines nock buffer.

[RAlly_DatoB210]

I can throw my $.02 in this, coming from an evergreen student (hippy liberal arts college) I can say I too think this is bullshit. All the yuppie greeners are all for it. They hear the word Eco friendly and instantly need one. The corn used is nowhere near eddible, takes the place of edible crops and then food prices increase. It does eat up old cars. The same thing happened to my dads BMW motorcycle when he jumped from leaded gas in the 70s to ethanol added fuel. Tons of fuel problems.

Also the question posed "is being less bad good?" comes to mind. Sure we are no longer having to rely on fosil fuels and the stuff can be grown and burns cleaner. But we are still producing co2 just less rapidly. As much as I love the sound of carbs at full roar sucking fuel I would jump on an electric set up as soon as they are cheap and efficient. These old cars are great platforms and torque is almost instant in electric. Look at the tesla roadster or the white zombie 1200. Both crazy fast all electric cars. Just not efficient enough for a daily. Leaf is dumb but it's a step towards helping.

[herculesinwyoming]

Revisit, on this. for some odd reason i have gone through three fuel pumps since this posting. all were nos style pumps and they seem to fail quickly. I am sure sitting alot doesnt help  but my theory is the ethanol is killing old style fuel pumps.  Tempted now to try an electric pump. 

[ArchetypeDatsun]

Does anyone know if Fred Meyer gas stations use Ethanol cause I been using them since there one of the cheaper next to costco & Safeway I would rather spend more to get the good old gas than to keeping putting crap in my car.

[EricJB]

Besides all the already mentioned side effects, keep an eye on your fuel filter. That stuff can loosen up all the shit that's been sitting in the bottom of your tank and send it through.

 

Hercules, pull one apart and see if the diaphragm split, or if a check valve is full of crap.

[datsunaholic]

Does anyone know if Fred Meyer gas stations use Ethanol cause I been using them since there one of the cheaper next to costco & Safeway I would rather spend more to get the good old gas than to keeping putting crap in my car.

 

Yes, they do.  Should be marked on the pump- by law.  Good luck finding ANY "normal" station on the West Coast that doesn't have Ethanol.  Every major station, and all stations run by retail stores (Costco, Safeway, Fred Meyer, Albertsons, Sam's Club, etc etc) all get their gas from the same sources, and it's ALL E10 (unless marked otherwise as higher, like E15 or -shudder- E85, which cannot be used in most cars anyway).

 

You can get Ethanol-free gas at Cenex, but those are getting very hard to find.   Several stations in and around Medford (though most are Pacific Pride or other card-only locations) are listed on the following site for Oregon.  All seem to only carry Ethanol-free gas at the 92-octane level except the one Union-76 (Circle K) and I'd be suspect of that one.  http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OR

[herculesinwyoming]

my fuel tank looked like brand new on the inside after i had it cleaned, now a few years later i am getting lots of rust in the filter, this ethanol shit is trashing my truck. 

[OkieRA29]

Yup, same with the cressida wagon.  Nice clean tank, six months later so much rust and crap, had to pull the tank and clean it again!

[DaBlist]

Like has been said, don't let it sit in your system for long term if you can. Things that have a fuel shut off and don't get used regularly need to be run dry - motorcycles, generators, etc. Not much you can do with a modern car though.

 

We are lucky enough here that Grange Supply in Issaquah sells gas with no E so if it's a must have we can get it.

 

[DaBlist]

Saw this last night at the hardware store

[bonvo]

Yes, they do.  Should be marked on the pump- by law.  Good luck finding ANY "normal" station on the West Coast that doesn't have Ethanol.  Every major station, and all stations run by retail stores (Costco, Safeway, Fred Meyer, Albertsons, Sam's Club, etc etc) all get their gas from the same sources, and it's ALL E10 (unless marked otherwise as higher, like E15 or -shudder- E85, which cannot be used in most cars anyway).

 

You can get Ethanol-free gas at Cenex, but those are getting very hard to find.   Several stations in and around Medford (though most are Pacific Pride or other card-only locations) are listed on the following site for Oregon.  All seem to only carry Ethanol-free gas at the 92-octane level except the one Union-76 (Circle K) and I'd be suspect of that one.  http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OR

 

i find that in the more rural areas non ethanol fuel is more common, probably due to the abundance of offroad and equipment there are 2 stations in LaPine that pump non ethanol at 4.45 a gallon 

[HRH]

There are lots of products that will help with ethanol separation.  Seafoam, Schaeffer's Neutra, Stabil.  Realistically if you've changed your fuel lines in the past 20 years (which you should have anyway) ethanol really isn't that big a deal for regular vehicles.  Small engines and boats, yes, especially if they sit or have very small fuel tubes.  I'm not for it, mind you, not even a little bit because it doesn't make economic sense for one, what with the growing of crap corn, and because it does have more issues.

 

However, 95% of vehicles who claim ethanol ruined my motor or makes my vehicle undriveable, have something else wrong with the car.  I ran the 12:1 L20B with carbs, fuel injection, and did so for 3 years before I blew it up running lean at 5500 rpm.  That was regular pump 92 with ethanol.  If I can do that with that motor and survive three years, I'm pretty sure you can too.