$5 a gallon predicted by news

[datzenmike]

Ah the dreaded gas price increase question. Will gas prices go up? Always.

 

So, checking tire pressure and keeping the Datto tuned is key but what about alternatives sources of fuel? Either using in combination with gasoline or supplemental to gasoline? Options are alcohol-which burns leaner so you have to use more to go the same distance; although it could be made at home with a still. It is cheaper but like previously mentioned you use more to go the same distance. Electric which has already been mentioned in this thread or how about HHo-better known as hydrogen. There are a lot of hydrogen supplemental videos on Youtube- I found one that is Datsun related. What do all you Rats think about adding this to the equation? It is made by splitting hydrogen from water. Quite volatile but effective. I have played with it as a source for welding, also on Youtube. (hho welding for those interested)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k566vt5GrS0

 

Total bull shit. Not once have those HHO idiots ever had any scientific double blind testing done by a reputable firm. It doesn't work as claimed. Here's what happens.... you invest $50-a few hundred dollars in this thing and expect better mileage and so you sub consciously start driving differently. Driving slower, less sudden stops, tires up to proper inflation, no junk in the trunk lots of little things. You swear you aren't but you can't help trying to 'help' it along so you can boast about how your friend only got a 5% increase but you got 8%. A 50MPG 280z is bull shit!!!!! I say let me have it with a full tank and drive it around and bet it gets 22 or whatever a 280 gets.

 

The energy used to create the HHO gas is more than the energy gotten out of it when burned in the motor. If this worked wouldn't everyone be using it??????

[Bleach]

Always drive downhill and let your engine idle in neutral. Instant 100mpg

[MicroMachinery]

If this worked wouldn't everyone be using it??????

 

I dunno. People don't want lung cancer but they still smoke. We're not rational.

 

But realistically, I've heard your argument too, and I lean more in your direction, Mike. People try and do all the little things to help increase mileage, but as much as I haven't actually seen with my own 2 eyes one of these installed and working, I also have not seen one installed and not working. I have yet to see proof of its success or failure, so I remain on the fence, asking if anyone has one to show. I'm a skeptic, but if someone can show me the money, I am open minded enough to believe.

[68Datsun510]

They are predicting $5 again to nudge the market in that direction. I forget the term, i think it was 'futures', but the last gas crisis was caused by runaway predictions freaking people out. basically they bet money gas would go up, that scares people, and bam the price goes up again and again.

[WAGON JON]

That little hydrogen maker thingy is a total Ratsun Idea. Rat-heads are about making something out of nothing. Anyone feel challenged to try the contraption or something better? Ratsun guys can do and make anything work.

 

It is easy to blow off an idea and it is just as easy to try an idea.

 

It is better to make something together with a few like minded thinkers that way it is not as easy to bah-humbug the idea and tell someone else to do it, then tell the rest of the others about the results. That way it is more convincing to believe if it actually works or not. (You know, the strength in numbers idea). Science or no science-what some always base their dulled thought processes on including the pay one gives to the other to fix the results in favor of the stronger opinion, screw it, just try it.

 

As for me, I got parts in progress. I am a Ratsun-Gearhead!

[SublimeDatsun610]

OK, a piece of recent history here for you guys, a couple years ago. the dollar was used as the MAIN currency for purchasing oil Globally. if a country wanted to buy oil say from Saudi Arabia. they would have to convert their currency into the US dollar and make their purchases. these countries recently have not wanted to use the US dollar. factoring that the US dollar DEBT based and essentially worthless if we Americans cannot BARROW against it. face it, we have a Shit sandwich packed in our lunch and no change in our pocket. $5 gas will be here, before we know it. The Dollar is tanking and the Fed is pumping Ass loads $ into the economy. welcome to this Prison Planet we call GLOBALISM!!!!!

[FoxyRoadster]

Honda has the right idea with the Honda Clarity FCX ... the Leaf and Volt are interesting, but for long range travel, i think this is the future... they have even made a solar powered quick fill station for them. fills in about 5 minutes i think... no 4 hour charges.

 

hot swapable batteries would be good too, but I laugh at the Volt's 35 miles per charge.

 

 

As for the HHO don't get started on that again. lol Basicly to sum it up, you can't make something from almost nill. You'd need to produce the hydrogen somewhere else to have any positive effect but then cost of power...

 

When the roadster's engine goes out I'm looking into something diesel and plan on having a turbo diesel roadster lol

[datto510]

I have a 1994 1.3 liter Geo Metro for sale. $7000 OBO.

[68Datsun510]

Sublime said it, 'OneWorld' Economy, no effin thank you. Too bad things only seem to get worse...

[FoxyRoadster]

If we could get cars running off Methane then DC alone could supply the US with enough fuel for a few lifetimes. :lol:

[datzenmike]

That little hydrogen maker thingy is a total Ratsun Idea. Rat-heads are about making something out of nothing. Anyone feel challenged to try the contraption or something better? Ratsun guys can do and make anything work.

 

It is easy to blow off an idea and it is just as easy to try an idea.

 

It is better to make something together with a few like minded thinkers that way it is not as easy to bah-humbug the idea and tell someone else to do it, then tell the rest of the others about the results. That way it is more convincing to believe if it actually works or not. (You know, the strength in numbers idea). Science or no science-what some always base their dulled thought processes on including the pay one gives to the other to fix the results in favor of the stronger opinion, screw it, just try it.

 

As for me, I got parts in progress. I am a Ratsun-Gearhead!

 

Not saying not to try it, saying the claims are BS. Mileage increases can be attributed to more careful driving which anyone can do. To do this right it has to be scientifically tested with an agent who has credentials like CSA or some kind of consumers digest, JD Powers or something and not some pseudo blah blah University of blah blah no one has ever heard of. Double blind tests... no one knows which cars have it and which ones don't. Testimonials are totally worthless as who ever publishes a negative one anyway? Also nut jobs send them in to get notoriety. It's human nature to believe in things that are impossible to prove. Believe what you want I have no problem with that. By all means, PLEASE PLEASE prove me and all nay sayers wrong. If a 280z can get 50mpg I should be able to get 80 in my 710.

[WAGON JON]

Lets try it together. Its easier to believe two or more people than just one. :D What is my testimony compared to anyone else on the internet? There will still be nay-sayers.

[datzenmike]

In politics I would be the opposition party critic. Being a natural cynic I am eminently qualified to bitch. I couldn't build something I didn't believe in simply to disprove it to others nor to prove myself right. There are hundreds of build threads with diagrams, and parts lists and supplies and I won't have a problem with anything you choose to build, only perhaps the theory behind it and very likely the testing method.

[WAGON JON]

Your funny! Makes sense though :)

[Umai Kakudo]

Here is a good forum for MPG mods.

 

http://ecomodder.com/

 

Keys are weight reduction, aerodynamic efficiency, and small displacement.

 

http://www.edison2.com/, the winners of the X Prize, have a lot of good info on their site as well.

[wayno]

Hi there Guys, I have used the hydrogen thing on my diesel, it's a bit hard to get it right, I do beleave I did get better mileage in the city, the problem I had was the relay, everyone I bought was a piece of :poop:, you can't save anything if you keep having to replace parts, I tried 3 differant types(last one was over $50.00) and they all failed. You can't figure anything out if you don't even know if it is working, I thought about putting an amp gauge on the dash so I could see the output, but after the third relay I put it aside, I sold the truck and pulled the system out before it left my property. The whole thing is a balancing act, the more acid type material in the mix, the more hydrogen created, the hotter the hole thing gets, too much acidy material and you will end up with a meltdown, and maybe a fire. I ran one batch at over 50 amps, I couldn't even touch the container/unit 30 seconds later it was so hot, it was a glass one so I could see it work, I bet it was 250 degrees. The guys selling these setups are basing the mileage on the one good day they had, which as datzenmike said, there driving habits had probably changed for that tank of fuel. I thought I got about 3 mpg better when it was working in the city, I seen no change on the hiway, but it wasn't working half the time. wayno

[Bleach]

On a 280Z fuel injection system your fuel is metered by the AFM.

Even if the hose running into the top of the manifold is giving you some free fuel, it won't be considered in the engine's internal mixture. The AFM will still meter in fuel for the air entering the throttle body.

 

The small amount of fumes coming from that jar is not any sort of airflow since it is sealed and won't change the AFM flap's position.

 

Fuel economy will remain the same until you put in less gasoline and produce the same torque at a given rpm... preferably at low rpm

 

Is the hydrogen supposed to increase torque?

[FoxyRoadster]

also you guys do know the H20 for forklifts came with propane right? I'm sure with a roadster transmission attached to it anyone here could easily convert to propane.

[Shonuff]

anyone here could easily convert to propane.

 

you people need to wheel more http://www.gotpropane.com/

[datzenmike]

 

The small amount of fumes coming from that jar is not any sort of airflow since it is sealed and won't change the AFM flap's position.

 

Fuel economy will remain the same until you put in less gasoline and produce the same torque at a given rpm... preferably at low rpm

 

Is the hydrogen supposed to increase torque?

 

I've been interested in the HHO for a while. From what I've heard on FI, you put a resistor into the O2 sensor wiring to make it run leaner. I don't know how they figure out which resistor exactly to use, but that sounds sketchy to me. Anybody here using one in their carbureted Datto?

 

Agreed the ECU would have to alter the fuel map to compensate. There is huge risk of running the motor too lean under load. Running rich under load is essential for cooling the motor and preventing pre-ignition. Too lean will damage a motor. But at at one or two liters of HHO every 10 minutes that sure isn't much.

 

I will say that HHO isn't produced in quantities that could possibly help run an engine. That the energy put in to make it cannot be recovered by burning it.

However, it may be possible, (I said MAYBE possible) that the HHO in small quantities may have some unknown effect on the ordinary fuel combustion process? Like a catalyst it makes it burn better without adding anything itself? I doubt it, but one thing for sure the minuscule amount of energy in HHO isn't the cause of increased mileage.

[HRH]

The hydrogen thing is bullshit. However, gas-vapor tanks do work. But, just like anything else, they have short comings. On highway sustained speeds, you can near boil the gasoline and run off the vapor, which results in great mileage. It has no drivability for other than steady-state throttle. Operating while going through traffic for instance, is not possible. It will run too lean and won't run right in general. But on the highway, it does work. I'm still dubious of how good it is for the motor, as most of these systems haven't seen long term use. My Datsun guru is hooking on up on his motorcoach for long trips. When he gets that done, I'll be able to report the findings.

 

The easiest way by far to get better mpg is to walk or ride a bike! :) But then, that requires food, which requires money. Basically it doesn't matter where it comes from, it's going to cost you. To be as efficient as an automobile on a bike or running would require much much more energy and money. But most people accept being slower on a bike or running/jogging. It's interesting how everything is intertwined. Doesn't matter if it's gas or groceries, it has to come from somewhere!

[DatLuv]

On a related note... How many MPG are you guys with KA swaps getting?

[merlin]

also you guys do know the H20 for forklifts came with propane right? I'm sure with a roadster transmission attached to it anyone here could easily convert to propane.

 

 

Ha ha, my 65 Cedric has an H20 in it as the stock engine...

[FoxyRoadster]

Ha ha, my 65 Cedric has an H20 in it as the stock engine...

 

 

Yeah, Nissan used it in quite a few cars and vans.

 

I think its funny that an engine that is the R16 but larger displacement has been produced so long.

[datzenmike]

"you can't get something for nothing" or "you can't take more out of a closed system than you put into it"

 

When I was a kid I used to hear stories about this home inventor who developed a carb that would give 80 MPG and the oil companys bought his invention and buried it. This when gas was about 20 cents a gallon or less. Every generation or so I would hear a variation on this old story. The thing is, gas only contains a finite amount of energy so no matter how efficient your motor ,X amount of gas will only move X amount of weight through X distance, period. A 20mpg car is not going to get 4 Xs increase in mileage from a carb change. Now it's Brown's gas HHO.