water in oil?

[sdsurf]

So I pulled my dipstick today and I think I have water in the oil. It is choclate brown color and runny. Am I going to have to pull the head?

I think I overheated it on the way back from JCCS. So I am guessing pull the head, have it checked and replace the head gasket.

 

TIps?

[MicroMachinery]

Might want to make sure it's the headgasket. I've seen it happen where coolant migrates up through the water passage in the intake manifold into the intake ports on the head. Not common, but I have seen it. Pull the radiator cap off(when the engine isn't hot, of course), and run the engine. If you see bubbles come up through the coolant, you know that you have a breach somewhere in the headgasket/head. Luckily, these little engines aren't hard to take the head off of. If you have to take the head off, and if it's warped, don't forget to get the cam-tower spacers to keep the proper distance between the cam gear and the crank gear. Best of luck.

[I'm BLUE]

So I pulled my dipstick today and I think I have water in the oil. It is choclate brown color and runny. Am I going to have to pull the head?

I think I overheated it on the way back from JCCS. So I am guessing pull the head, have it checked and replace the head gasket.

 

TIps?

 

What is JCCS ???

 

Yup ! , Second what MicroMachinery Said ! ( I forget about the cam tower spacers , thanks micro ! )

 

(1) Compression check ( too see if it is blown between cylinders by chance on the head gasket or other areas like waterjacket/oil gallerys as a fast indicator )

(2) just pay the extra $30 for pressure check while head is off , check surface with a straight edge too )

(3) Like Micro said , if machining required get those cam tower spacers so your timing is not foolish ;)

(4) In addition check your Core Plugs ! if one is bad usually rest are not far behind !

(5) If it over-heated badly , plan on the idea of a spare head possibly ? ( just a thought , but could be fine :mellow:)

(6) If head checks ok , asking self last time the timing chain was done , front seal , rear main seal , and oil pan gasket as a thought ( not much money around $100 for all that stuff I think ? )

 

I can't get over how easy these little motors are too work on :cool:

 

Hope that helps a bit !

[ggzilla]

JCCS was like the first weekend in October, the Japanese classic car "national" show.

Haven't been driving it lately, cause that was three months ago.

 

DTP's advice seems pretty sound. Check it out first, then you won't be fixing the wrong thing.

 

If the compression is fine, do a cooling system pressure check to tell if its the head gasket or instake gasket or something else.

[I'm BLUE]

JCCS was like the first weekend in October, the Japanese classic car "national" show.

Haven't been driving it lately, cause that was three months ago.

 

DTP's advice seems pretty sound. Check it out first, then you won't be fixing the wrong thing.

 

If the compression is fine, do a cooling system pressure check to tell if its the head gasket or instake gasket or something else.

 

thanks ggzilla for clearing that up ! , excellent point on the coolant pressure test ;) ! ( I knew I was forgetting something ! hahaha ! ) :D

[datzenmike]

One easy way for water to get to the oil pan is finding it's way into the cylinder past the gasket. A warped head would help. Once in the cylinder the exploding fuel air and resultant extreme pressure would push the steam vapor past the rings as blow by, where it would condense in the oil pan. Wouldn't take more than a coffee mug or two to turn the oil to milk shake.

 

I don't know weather you have coolant passages in your intake or not. If you do it's just possible that it's leaking into one of the intake runners and then into a cylinder, past the rings and into the pan.

 

I would think you would see some steam coming out the exhaust pipe if it were.

 

 

It's possible that the timing cover that houses the water pump is corroded and there is a leak. Any leak would drop down past the timing chain and into the pan directly.

[ggzilla]

Yes, timing cover leaks have fooled many, including me. I did a whole head gasket job just to find it didn't solve the leak! Have never forgotten that lesson.

 

The cooling system pressure test will usually find it. You place a pump on the radiator, where the cap goes, pump the pressure up and listen for leaks. With a rubber hose to your ear listen for the air leak, you can tell if it's leaking into the intake, exhaust, rocker cover or sump.

[HRH]

Take out your spark plugs, look for a shiny one. If the head gasket failed, it's unlikely you aren't burning some in the chamber, even if it's a little bit. Water cleans all. A super clean plug tells you what cylinder is getting the water. And it's easier than yanking the head for diagnosis.

 

Just because it's chocolate brown doesn't mean it's a blown gasket. In winter, with lots of start and stop driving with the engine not up to temperature, the condensation doesn't get burned out very easily. Unless you drive your rig for 20 minutes sustained each day, and more like 30 minutes.

 

Consequently, you'll get a milkshake like froth when you pull off the filler cap. But on your dipstick, yeah, you might have a gasket problem there.

[I'm BLUE]

Take out your spark plugs, look for a shiny one. If the head gasket failed, it's unlikely you aren't burning some in the chamber, even if it's a little bit. Water cleans all. A super clean plug tells you what cylinder is getting the water. And it's easier than yanking the head for diagnosis.

 

Just because it's chocolate brown doesn't mean it's a blown gasket. In winter, with lots of start and stop driving with the engine not up to temperature, the condensation doesn't get burned out very easily. Unless you drive your rig for 20 minutes sustained each day, and more like 30 minutes.

 

Consequently, you'll get a milkshake like froth when you pull off the filler cap. But on your dipstick, yeah, you might have a gasket problem there.

 

That's true ! Water cleans the carbon quick ( and polishes cylinders too ) , but if your motor is sealed well enough then there shouldn't be much if at all from condensation like the exhaust ( at least never I have seen it ) But I will look for this just in case ! I guess I change my oil too much ! You must have a lot of moisture in your area of Washington by chance ?

[sdsurf]

1. I do see steam out of the exhaust and when it has been sitting it is hard to turn over the first couple of cranks.

2. This is in So Cal

3. the engine has less than 500 miles since the rebuild. This isn't my daily driver.

4. Also have a leak possibly rear main seal.

5. Intake manifold water passage is blocked

6. what sequence to do?

1. run engine while cold and see if bubbles in the radiator?

2. Compression check?

3. next?

[datzenmike]

1. I do see steam out of the exhaust and when it has been sitting it is hard to turn over the first couple of cranks.

2. This is in So Cal

3. the engine has less than 500 miles since the rebuild. This isn't my daily driver.

4. Also have a leak possibly rear main seal.

5. Intake manifold water passage is blocked

6. what sequence to do?

1. run engine while cold and see if bubbles in the radiator?

2. Compression check?

3. next?

 

1&2/ steamy exhaust is normal on start up specially on cool mornings so this isn't always a good indicator. You know your truck best so is there a change in the exhaust steam... is there excessive steaming? is it more noticeable now than before when warmed up?

 

3/ With 500 miles on it the compression should be high and even so run a compression test. Look for one lower cylinder than the rest. Try when cold and again when hot.

 

A plug that is cleaner than the rest may mean that is the leak. If it is also the cylinder with the lower compression then I would say the gasket is leaking. But keep in mind the timing cover could also have a leak.

[HRH]

When I blew a headgasket in a previous 620, I not only had steam, I had a billowing cloud behind me, and a strangely sweet smell. Of course, wholesale gasket failure is pretty easy to detect. :)

[Pacific coast Datsun]

Hopefully its an easy fix Mike. I have a compression tester you can borrow if you like.

[MicroMachinery]

I wouldn't completely trust a compression test. If you do a compression test and the compression looks OK, I'd still run a cylinder leak-down test. With that, you can open the radiator cap and bubbles will indicate an internal coolant leak. Also, as was mentioned before, i wouldn't rule out a leak in the timing cover. But stating the nature of your issue, and that you say it happened after your were overheating, I would lean more towards the possibility of a headgasket/head leak. Have you checked the radiator while the engine is running yet?

One more thing, while I'm here: I noticed you said that the engine only has about 500 miles on it.. have you re-torqued the head bolts? I've read that after you torque the head bolts and run it for a certain amount of time(not sure how long, but safe to say after a few hot/cold cycles), that you should re-torque them. You may luck out and clamp that headgasket(if that is the issue) back down. Maybe that's a silly suggestion, but hey, tryin's free.

[sdsurf]

Thanks for all the help. I am going to start testing the issues this week when I get back to the truck. Fortunately it isn't my DD so I have time.

[banzai510(hainz)]

ck behine the water pump incase of cavitation put a hole in the timmng cover.

[sdsurf]

First compression test cold. Turned over and water shot out of #2 and #3 (i think. didn't watch that closely.):

#1 180

#2 240

#3 180

#4 180

 

second test 2 min later still cold

#1 180

#2 180

#3 180

#4 180

 

There doesn't appear to be bubbles in the radiator. If any very small, not big at all.

[datzenmike]

Water was in the #2 causing the higher compression till you blew it out.

[sdsurf]

Water was in the #2 causing the higher compression till you blew it out.

So should i retorque the head bolts next?

[DanielC]

I only skimmed the whole thread, but it seems to me you really need to do a pressure check on the cooling system. I would do it with the spark plugs out of the engine.

While the cooling system is pressurized, get a piece of 1/4 or 3/8 rubber hose, and hold it by each spark plug hole, and the other end to your ear. If you hear a leak, it is probably headgasket time. If there is a leak from the intake manifold cooling water passage, into the air runner, that might be heard by opening the throttle, and putting the end of the hose in the carb. Likewise, if the engine is leaking from the front cover, you might also hear it by putting the hose into the oil cap hole, or it might be necessary to remove the cam cover, to guide the hose down by the front cover.

I had a cylinder head that was frozen with out anti freeze, and it cracked underneath the cam shaft, between number two intake valve spring, to number three intake valve spring. Scrapped a JDM L-18 fuel injection notched peanut head.

[sdsurf]

retorqued the head bolts. They were no where near 43 lbs. So hopefully the retorque is the trick...

[sdsurf]

changed the oil and torqued the head bolts. There was still a lot of steam on start up that lasted a good 5+ minutes. Still maybe a head issue but compression is good... I will check the oil and try another start up later