Crazy Datsun 510

[nismopu]

I have an old maxpower video featuring a VW rabbit that had twin 1.8liter nitrous fed engines in it. It was pretty damn fast obviously but it still sounded like a 4cylinder even though both engines dumped into one muffler. Anyway, it can be done in just about any car but I think it would be easier done in a wrong wheel drive vehicle. peace.

[tnip]

just to tap into my mounds of useless knowledge...

 

has anybody here ever seen or heard of Zcars? no, not a datsun Z car... there is a small company in england called z-cars ltd. they are most well known for making a direct bolt in kit for an "original" mini. it transforms it from a front engine, front wheel drive with sort of primative suspension to a mid engined, rear wheel drive setup with unequal length a-arms and in board coilovers in the front and a trailing arm setup in the back. very very quality stuff and a huge improvement over stock. of course this car weighs a little bit less than a 510. but if you had your heart set on using a 600cc bike engine i think you could modify and lighten a 510 to the point of working well with a similair system. this kit really is insane. the newest incarnation of the kit uses a K20 motor from a civic type r. and i think it's awesome that it's a bolt in kit, you do have to cut out like half of the floor, but you're removing that so as to slip the rear subframe up through the bottom. also they use a car starter motor for a reverse, in case you were wondering.

 

http://www.zcars.org.uk

[Fineline]

Speaking of Hyabusa motors. Check this out. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/065545.html

[INDY510]

I got some work done today:

Made the exaust fit, mounted the radiator, and fan

Wired up the ECU and voltage regulator

Can anyone see what I cut to fit the exaust??

You think the hood will fit???

Will a 521 driveline with a carrier bearing work?

[INDY510]

[Icehouse]

I think the DL and exhaust will be easy, the tuff part will be shaving off all the weight required to make this car light.

 

Why don't you take the header off and rebuild it, from the looks of the pics your engine is offset to the passenger side due to the header. I don't think the DL angle won't be a problem ether way. Not that I'm any good trying to figure out DL angles....

 

How far off the fire wall is the engine?

[tnip]

i think for this to take advantage of the high revving engine it's gonna require some serious weight shaving like icehouse said. and i agree that you should figure out a custom header. you could pull the header and reposition the motor so it's in a prime position and then try and reinstall the header, maybe you can use it, maybe not. is it a two part header like some bike headers are? maybe you can have the bottom half remade to bend towards the back instead of towards the side.

 

from the link that fineline posted, to the twin busa powered fiero, i got into reading about dp1 motorsports and this guy is doin some insane stuff. built from scratch his own busa powered awd track car that he is now producing and selling and is involved in a testing process with a v-8 made from 2 busas on a custom built bottom end using a single crank. his test vehicle is an atom arial... awesome stuff if you're into trick engineering and cool custom vehicles. maybe you could do some research from his differential setup or get in contact with him about a drive train.

 

http://dpcars.aprsworld.com

[INDY510]

Sorry, double post

[INDY510]

I deleted the double post,

I would like it closer to the firewall, but it fits on the crossmember here. It will mount to the rear swing-arm mount. It fits perfect, but the drivers side is gonna be harder to mount. Right now everything clears the steering linkage and the exaust is not too low. I hope the DL wil not hit the oil filter.... What are your ideas for less wieght?

[tnip]

i would think before the weight shaving (read: making it faster) you need to first figure out the driveline (read: making it move). i assume you're going to bolt a driveshaft directly to the output shaft on the tranny. i would also assume that the lighter the driveline components (driveshaft and axles) the better. to really make use of the characteristics of the eng/trans i think the less rotational mass the better, which is true of any vehicle, but more so important with an eng/trans that was designed to spin relatively nothing. the motorcycle's rotational mass is only a couple sprockets a chain vs. a car's rotational mass which is a driveshaft, a differential, two axles and an extra wheel and brake. then again i might be wrong and this can be easily compensated by gearing. then again i might be reading way too much into that aspect of it. anybody elses' thoughts?

[Green Bastard]

What are your ideas for less wieght?

 

How about a different car, i.e. Datsun 1200?

 

And it looks like you trimmed the motor mount to clear the header.

[nismopu]

heres a question! How much load does one think that little output shaft is able to take? My dad whos huge into motorcycle racing and all kinds of stupidness on two wheelers (aka wheelies), once broke the output shaft right off. He dropped to many teeth or went up too many teeth or something like that and ended up snapping that thing like a twig.

[datsunfreak]

How about a different car, i.e. Datsun 1200?

 

That gets my vote. A 1200 starts out at 1600 pounds (tough to even get a 510 down to that) and can be knocked down to 1450 quite easily. With this engine, a 1300-1350 pound 1200 is very possible.

[INDY510]

You know the motor and tranny wiegh 149 lbs, I think a 1200 could get close to 1100 lbs. I think it might work in my 510. I will do everything possible to get the wieght down. This is a good start:

[datzenmike]

i would think before the weight shaving (read: making it faster) you need to first figure out the driveline (read: making it move). i assume you're going to bolt a driveshaft directly to the output shaft on the tranny. i would also assume that the lighter the driveline components (driveshaft and axles) the better. to really make use of the characteristics of the eng/trans i think the less rotational mass the better, which is true of any vehicle, but more so important with an eng/trans that was designed to spin relatively nothing. the motorcycle's rotational mass is only a couple sprockets a chain vs. a car's rotational mass which is a driveshaft, a differential, two axles and an extra wheel and brake. then again i might be wrong and this can be easily compensated by gearing. then again i might be reading way too much into that aspect of it. anybody elses' thoughts?

 

A car would also have a monster size flywheel to store take off power to get all that mass moving.

 

The more I think about this... the more I think about this. Let's see....

 

To use the L series motors top RPM range the diff is about 4 to 1. The bike engine's range is what, 14,000 RPM?, so the diff should be at least doubled, don't forget the 3 times increase in weight and loss of low speed torque. I would leave the 5spd in and run it in first gear. This would give another 3 to 1 ratio. AND A REVERSE!!!

[datzenmike]

i would think before the weight shaving (read: making it faster) you need to first figure out the driveline (read: making it move). i assume you're going to bolt a driveshaft directly to the output shaft on the tranny. i would also assume that the lighter the driveline components (driveshaft and axles) the better. to really make use of the characteristics of the eng/trans i think the less rotational mass the better, which is true of any vehicle, but more so important with an eng/trans that was designed to spin relatively nothing. the motorcycle's rotational mass is only a couple sprockets a chain vs. a car's rotational mass which is a driveshaft, a differential, two axles and an extra wheel and brake. then again i might be wrong and this can be easily compensated by gearing. then again i might be reading way too much into that aspect of it. anybody elses' thoughts?

 

A car would also have a monster size flywheel to store take off power to get all that mass moving.

 

The more I think about this... the more I think about this. Let's see....

 

To use the L series motors top RPM range the diff is about 4 to 1. The bike engine's range is what, 14,000 RPM?, so the diff should be at least doubled, don't forget the 3 times increase in weight and loss of low speed torque. I would leave the 5spd in and run it in first gear. This would give another 3 to 1 ratio. AND A REVERSE!!!

[Icehouse]

I deleted the double post,

I would like it closer to the firewall, but it fits on the crossmember here. It will mount to the rear swing-arm mount. It fits perfect, but the drivers side is gonna be harder to mount. Right now everything clears the steering linkage and the exaust is not too low. I hope the DL wil not hit the oil filter.... What are your ideas for less wieght?

 

Indy do you own a welder? You seem hesitant to cut stuff. If I was building the car the first thing I would do is take the header off and fit the engine in the optimal position. Close to the firewall, center up the DL so the oil filter has some room... Stuff like that. I'm with Mark, I love to cut old cars :D

 

For weight savings I would remove everything!! Shit to get the weight you want you may have to rewire it, gotta get every ounce out. No glass, no dash, no anything. One seat thats it.

 

I think the output shaft and the rest of the engine will be under added stress so if anything breaks I won't be surprised. Thats half the fun though :D After reading the bike powered car forums I don't think it happens to often. I didn't see any posts about it and I read tons of pages.

[tnip]

i think for this to be a really fun project rather than time spent for a not so decent end result you should seriously consider getting a different motor,tranny. like a busa or even just a 1000.

[SHADY280]

im just using my 1000 cc suzuki for a jinxerkart!! watch the youtube video (srry no linky)

[nismopu]

I think the output shaft and the rest of the engine will be under added stress so if anything breaks I won't be surprised. Thats half the fun though :D After reading the bike powered car forums I don't think it happens to often. I didn't see any posts about it and I read tons of pages.

 

This is because a chain is used primarily and what do chains allow? They allow a little flex and take away alot of shock to the drive system. I think to make this abosolutely doable and worthwhile would be to use a transfer case of some kind mounted to the side of the motorcycle case. This would not only help in taking out some shock because most transfer caqse systems have a little slop to keep from breaking stuff but you might be able to help the engine do more work with the power its providint. just my .02. peace.

[datzenmike]

Leave the 4 or 5 spd in and chain or direct couple to the input spline. No need for custom drive shaft, first will be lower but you at least have the option of other gears, and you will have a working reverse. Just build it.

[INDY510]

Well the wieght is centered here, and I got started on my custom headers:

[kiznook]

yeah, I think dual transmissions is a good idea. The motorcycle clutch won't like you if you're using it all the time. With two trannys you wont have to figure out new clutch/shifter controls, and you can use the motorcylce gears for different types of driving. Pull up to an autocross, put it in 1st, maybe you'll get 3 gears on a tight course. Daily driving, motorcycle trans in 3rd, ighway, 6th. You'll still have reverse, you can run a regular cluch and flywheel (might be tricky) and the speedo will still work :D

 

just an idea

[tnip]

... this issue with driveline vibration and output shaft breakage... the motorcycle uses a chain to provide the slightest amount of slack to prevent breakage... what about some sort of like... coupler. isn't there some sort of specificaly made piece that is like nylon-enforced rubber or something... bolts to oneside and then to the other, just to act as a vibration reducer?... or did i just make something up?

[Icehouse]

This is because a chain is used primarily and what do chains allow? They allow a little flex and take away alot of shock to the drive system. I think to make this abosolutely doable and worthwhile would be to use a transfer case of some kind mounted to the side of the motorcycle case. This would not only help in taking out some shock because most transfer caqse systems have a little slop to keep from breaking stuff but you might be able to help the engine do more work with the power its providint. just my .02. peace.

 

I think a second transfer case is a good idea, I would skip it due to weight and cost. I read the low cost builders page for weeks when I wanted to get a hayabusa engine for my 1200. I don't remember hearing anything to bad about bike trannys. I did see them upgrade the clutch springs.

 

 

 

Leave the 4 or 5 spd in and chain or direct couple to the input spline. No need for custom drive shaft, first will be lower but you at least have the option of other gears, and you will have a working reverse. Just build it.

 

 

I drove a 68 roadster around for a couple months with no reverse :D

 

... this issue with driveline vibration and output shaft breakage... the motorcycle uses a chain to provide the slightest amount of slack to prevent breakage... what about some sort of like... coupler. isn't there some sort of specificaly made piece that is like nylon-enforced rubber or something... bolts to oneside and then to the other, just to act as a vibration reducer?... or did i just make something up?

 

 

If anything I would put a rubber bushing inbetween the DL flanges like the do on newer cars. My s13 had it.

 

 

 

 

Link to cool cars :D

 

This is a link to a bike engine powered car sight. I tried to sign up a while back. They required you to make a phone call to a certain phone number, in Europe!! I did read tons of it though :D There are great vids to if you look hard enough. They even take them to the drag strip and run dam good numbers. :D

 

 

No turbo? :D