datzenmike Posted February 2, 2023 Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 Well this is what I thought. The later H-190 side gears may not interchange with the earlier but the axles should still be 29 spline. 2 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted February 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 I now believe the differentials I was seeing are the h233 .... makes sense even though they look the same, it doesn't mean they fit... Searching the gasket for compatible models apparently led me down an incorrect path... With some junkyard searching I have been able to find possibilities of the correct 4x2 h190 lsd.... I appreciate the input in helping me understand this... Mike you can kill, lock or leave this thread if you like or change the title to "not an option" .... Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 2, 2023 Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 The H-233 is a MONSTER!!!! It was all I could do to lift one end and set it on the back of my flatbed. Had to get help getting the other end up and on. Has LSD in 4.625 and 4.375 ratios and they are 4 pinion. Disc brake are optional. It's full of info if read till the end. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted February 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, datzenmike said: The H-233 is a MONSTER!!!! It was all I could do to lift one end and set it on the back of my flatbed. Had to get help getting the other end up and on. Has LSD in 4.625 and 4.375 ratios and they are 4 pinion. Disc brake are optional. It's full of info if read till the end. Ya I finally saw a picture of the h190 differential next to a h233... I instantly said ya that not gonna work.... 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted February 2, 2023 Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 13 hours ago, wayno said: it is a lot safer to drive without the LSD. They do take getting used to. It's all about the breakaway pressure of the LSD clutch unit. You can take them apart and adjust the shims to make it slip more or less. Another major factor here is tires. Cheap, bald or crappy tires on a pickup truck can make it frightening to drive. I live in a town where the only access to the outside world is down a steep canyon, across a bridge and up the other side. 7 miles of twisty mountain road. Driving my Dodge truck in the rain has always been exciting and if I had to go through the canyon, I drove like there was ice on the road. The problem was the weight of the empty bed vs the traction of the tires. I have a grate of steel, a full size 35" spare tire and even a 100 pound steel weight in the back to help with traction. The latest set of tires is the best I've ever had on that truck and I can now drive with confidence. So yeah, trucks can get loose. It's a truck thing. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted February 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 Me personally my old Chevy had a limited slip rear end and I never had an issue... I think my frontier is limited slip but it has traction control and electronic locker so I know even less about what's going on back there... I'll admit my only reason for the lsd is 2 wheel burnouts.... and traction if I try to actually "launch" it.... I have tried a couple times with an app to see what my 1/8 and 1/4 mile time could be. .. usually from a stop before getting on the highway..... Some on ramps let me get away with it as long as no ones behind me... 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 2, 2023 Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 Double edged sword. While it maximizes transfer of power to both wheels which is great for straight ahead acceleration this is counter productive on any turn where the tires want to revolve at different speeds. You don't have to look any farther than drift cars that use high break away LSDs or weld the differential to maximize tire spin on corners to see what the effect is. I had a Grand Prix with LSD, nothing aggressive, but you had to be careful turning corners on snow and specially ice. One wheel was slipping because it was clutched to the other but the slightest gas before out of the turn might cause the other tire to loose traction and with both now spinning the rear end comes loose and now you were in over steer. If starting on a slippery sloping surface if one breaks loos they both do and the vehicle immediately lurches to the side. An open differential was much less likely to do this as the rear tires could switch back and forth as needed. Wet roads were better and dry best, still you had to be aware of patches of wet, leaves and sand on pavement on corners if you were in a hurry. A high break away LSD tends to plough (under steer) into hard corners, not really an advantage if canyon carving. 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted February 2, 2023 Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 My first 510 with a welded diff would wear out front tires if I drove like an old lady. But on the throttle made the front tires last longer. The race cars with the LSD units had more camber in front, so wear was even. I used to get free take-off tires from the Skip Barber racing school, and I worked at a tire shop at the track, so wearing out tires didn't bother me. 1 Quote Link to comment
Wildcat Walker Posted February 3, 2023 Report Share Posted February 3, 2023 . 3 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 3, 2023 Report Share Posted February 3, 2023 The Pathfinder WD21 had disc brakes and the backing plates should swap easily enough. The parking brake is cable and is a mini drum brake built in. Not really sure if disc brakes were available on the D21. There was a change in the WD21 rear axle around '96. Ring gear bolts were changed to larger diameter? and the break away on the LSD reduced, I think. Maybe other stuff. Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted February 3, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2023 36 minutes ago, Wildcat Walker said: Please do not lock this thread. Scouring this forum, there is a lot of discussion about LSD this or locker that. The truth is, that there aren't any readily available or economical ways to install a traction increasing device into your h190. Mike suggest installing the H233 LSD, but so far, no one has ever attempted or followed through with doing so, until now. I have a date with the machine shop mid February to narrow the housing and axles on my H233 unit down to stock 620 track width. My H233 came with drum brakes and I have removed them and the associated backing plates. The 4.6:1 gear set will be changed to a 3.9:1 unit, to reduce highway rpms and make better use of 1st gear. I never did like the 4.375:1 in the H190 at highway rpms, and with SR20DET 1st gear was a tire spinning joke. Brakes will be Z32 rear calipers, with an engineered caliper bracket. The factory H233 ABS sensor and tone ring will be used as a sinusoidal signal to provide a source for vehicle speed. I will add some images once I figure out how. Stay tuned, this CAN and WILL be done. The physical size of the h233 differential will never fit in the h190 housing.... I have been locating some locking differential through junkyard search sights but I haven't gone further to confirm they are the h190 ones .... so they are out there just not easily found... I have a couple pic and pull yards I'm thinking about checking out... I'd rather have it in hand vs something shipped I cant verify myself..... Also do you still have the 4:37 gears? If so and you wanna sell I'd be interested.... If I find a lsd differential I wanna swap a gear set on and keep my open differential setup just incase... I like the gear ratio with my upgraded L16 with a 5spd. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted February 3, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted February 3, 2023 Report Share Posted February 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Wildcat Walker said: Please do not lock this thread. Scouring this forum, there is a lot of discussion about LSD this or locker that. The truth is, that there aren't any readily available or economical ways to install a traction increasing device into your h190. Mike suggest installing the H233 LSD, but so far, no one has ever attempted or followed through with doing so, until now. I have a date with the machine shop mid February to narrow the housing and axles on my H233 unit down to stock 620 track width. My H233 came with drum brakes and I have removed them and the associated backing plates. The 4.6:1 gear set will be changed to a 3.9:1 unit, to reduce highway rpms and make better use of 1st gear. I never did like the 4.375:1 in the H190 at highway rpms, and with SR20DET 1st gear was a tire spinning joke. Brakes will be Z32 rear calipers, with an engineered caliper bracket. The factory H233 ABS sensor and tone ring will be used as a sinusoidal signal to provide a source for vehicle speed. I will add some images once I figure out how. Stay tuned, this CAN and WILL be done. So you're narrowing a 233 housing and shafts? Be clear on that so guys understand what you're doing. 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted February 3, 2023 Report Share Posted February 3, 2023 46 minutes ago, datzenmike said: The Pathfinder WD21 had disc brakes and the backing plates should swap easily enough. The parking brake is cable and is a mini drum brake built in. Not really sure if disc brakes were available on the D21. There was a change in the WD21 rear axle around '96. Ring gear bolts were changed to larger diameter? and the break away on the LSD reduced, I think. Maybe other stuff. I just looked through my files to find pics of the Pathfinder disc conversion I did on a customer's Xterra and couldn't find them. It was an easy swap, using all OEM parts, if I recall. Except brake hoses. 1 Quote Link to comment
Wildcat Walker Posted February 4, 2023 Report Share Posted February 4, 2023 On 2/3/2023 at 10:24 AM, Stoffregen Motorsports said: So you're narrowing a 233 housing and shafts? Be clear on that so guys understand what you're . 1 Quote Link to comment
Wildcat Walker Posted February 4, 2023 Report Share Posted February 4, 2023 On 2/3/2023 at 9:55 AM, Crashtd420 said: The physical size of the h233 differential will never fit in the h190 housing.... I have been locating some locking differential through junkyard search sights but I haven't gone further to confirm they are the h190 ones .... so they are out there just not easily found... I have a couple pic and pull yards I'm thinking about checking out... I'd rather have it in hand vs something shipped I cant verify myself..... Also do you still have the 4:37 gears? If so and you wanna sell I'd be interested.... If I find a lsd differential I wanna swap a gear set on and keep my open differential setup just incase... I like the gear ratio with my upgraded L16 with a . 1 Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted February 4, 2023 Report Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Wildcat Walker said: Im really not sure why there is confusion, maybe because someone was discussing the interchangeability of h190 and h233 parts. The idea behind swapping the entire H233 axle is to get a stronger differential with clutch type LSD. Again, it's been suggested many many times, but never executed. I do not have an h190 4.375:1 gear set, mine was destroyed. I will have a 4.6:1 gear set, when I install my 3.9:1 set on the h233. The gearset came in today. I wish this forum would allow the direct upload of pictures. It does allow you to post photos, in the bottom of the reply box/field is this below. Drag files here to attach, or choose files... Max total size: 4 MB Max file size: 2MB Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted February 4, 2023 Report Share Posted February 4, 2023 I believe you need a certain number of posts before you can upload pics. Quote Link to comment
thisismatt Posted February 5, 2023 Report Share Posted February 5, 2023 Usually like to call that WMS-WMS (wheel mounting surface) to avoid ambiguity. Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted February 5, 2023 Report Share Posted February 5, 2023 What's up with the . ? Posts removed? Why? Quote Link to comment
thisismatt Posted February 5, 2023 Report Share Posted February 5, 2023 I guess I offended him 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 5, 2023 Report Share Posted February 5, 2023 39 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said: What's up with the . ? Posts removed? Why? Oh man. Any info is good info even if it gets off track. Someone in the future may come looking for H-190/H-233 information. Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted February 5, 2023 Report Share Posted February 5, 2023 1 hour ago, thisismatt said: I guess I offended him 🤷♂️ Whatever. His loss. Three posts in, he was already telling us to chill out. Better if he goes away I guess, if he can't stand the heat. Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 5, 2023 Report Share Posted February 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said: Three posts in, he was already telling us to chill out. Better if he goes away I guess, if he can't stand the heat. Like that's never happened before. Heat or perceived heat. Beginnings are difficult. Information shouldn't be removed. 1 Quote Link to comment
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