Crashtd420 Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 After being involved in another discussion about a Detroit locker I started to wonder about getting an Lsd .... From that discussion the last 2 Detroit lockers were sold and they were the last, the company had a possible posi option but came back discontinued... And we all know not to use those phantom grip blocks..... So not many options out there other that being extremely lucky at the junkyards.... This brings me to the start of my questions.... What about the 4x4 units from the late 80s and early 90s d21s? I know they have a different spline count but would it fit in the h190 axle housing? The gasket up to 92 seems to be the same.... Obviously the axles are now the problem, I'm trying to see if my 521 axles could be resplined or if the d21 axle could be shorted ... I did compare the end play shims and they are the same so the d21 axles should bolt up I'm guess would be to long... Any insight would be great, I dont have the money to buy and try at the moment just to be wrong.... 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 Is there an aftermarket listing for a D21 carrier? You may be able to compare specs. 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 Most axle shafts can be shortened and resplined. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said: Is there an aftermarket listing for a D21 carrier? You may be able to compare specs. Not that I found, just that one that came back as unavailable and there was no spec information at all.... Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 16 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said: Most axle shafts can be shortened and resplined. My concern with shorting is the diameter after the spline on the d21 axle... On my 521 axle the diameter is smaller just after the spline.... If the carrier will fit I'll start making some email an phone calls about the axles.... I'd love to do this myself but ill have an axle shop do it for me.... they would have a better understanding of the metal and if case hardening is necessary after.... Plus I hate splines... recently had to start doing some and I'm not a fan, mostly because I dont trust the table indexing.... 45 tooth on a 5 1/2 shaft.... 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 Yeah, as I said, most. Not all. Custom shafts are not expensive though. You can get completely custom shafts from Dutchman for about $750. 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 Of course, you could do an axle swap for less... 2 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said: Of course, you could do an axle swap for less... Yes I agree, but in my case I'm running the coils overs already and everything for the link bars are already welded on my h190 housing... Just seeing where the rabbit hole leads with the idea... hoping for the someone easy swap if possible. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 I looked at the Dutchman axle site about custom axles and one thing I noticed was a reference chart . This was diameter vs spline count and a 31 spline has a slightly larger diameter than a 29 spline... approximately. O75.. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 Looking at the shop who balanced my driveshaft they can make custom axles, cost around 385 per pair... So not bad... I can get a 3rd member for around 300-400... so again not to bad cost wise.... 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Crashtd420 said: I looked at the Dutchman axle site about custom axles and one thing I noticed was a reference chart . This was diameter vs spline count and a 31 spline has a slightly larger diameter than a 29 spline... approximately. O75.. The side gears are removable, would 521 29 spline side gears not fit? Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted January 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 37 minutes ago, datzenmike said: The side gears are removable, would 521 29 spline side gears not fit? So the 4x4 3rd member will fit my axle housing? Well that would be nice If it was as simple as swapping side gears... I have a spare differential with 4:88 gears ... I can always take that apart to see.. I'd be willing to make the initial investment to see if the Lsd side gear will swap from the open differential... Worse case I'll have to get custom axles in the end..... Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 All H-190 3rd members will swap but the 720 4x4 ones after '81 or '82 changed their pinion and yoke for a larger U joint. Yes the pinion spline also changed so you can't just swap a 2wd yoke onto it. I know... I tried. 4x4 differentials on the 720 changed to C-200 in '83. H-190s were only used on 2wd and 4 cylinders after that. 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted February 1, 2023 Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 18 hours ago, datzenmike said: The side gears are removable, would 521 29 spline side gears not fit? That was my first thought, but I don't know enough about the truck diffs. Swapping side gears between open carriers is common, but there is a possibility that the LSD side gears are different from an open carrier side gear. 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 1, 2023 Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 I wasn't aware that the H-190 in the D21 had different axle diameters and splines WHY?????? would they do this? And is it just the LSD 4x4? or all 2wd H-190s? 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted February 1, 2023 Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 Right. So many questions. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted February 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 58 minutes ago, datzenmike said: I wasn't aware that the H-190 in the D21 had different axle diameters and splines WHY?????? would they do this? And is it just the LSD 4x4? or all 2wd H-190s? From what I have been finding the h190 in the 2x4 d21 does have the same 29 spline ... The 4x4 info is confusing .... I dont think they are h190 but they still have a removable 3rd member... Im still trying to dig up what I can... Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted February 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) 18 hours ago, datzenmike said: All H-190 3rd members will swap but the 720 4x4 ones after '81 or '82 changed their pinion and yoke for a larger U joint. Yes the pinion spline also changed so you can't just swap a 2wd yoke onto it. I know... I tried. 4x4 differentials on the 720 changed to C-200 in '83. H-190s were only used on 2wd and 4 cylinders after that. If this is true then is this a c200 differential? I thought they had the removable back cover.... If not what type is it? Edited February 1, 2023 by Crashtd420 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted February 1, 2023 Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 I use the pics and info on the car-part.com to help sort out the differences between parts on a particular vehicle. Maybe try searching there for info. 1 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted February 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 16 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said: I use the pics and info on the car-part.com to help sort out the differences between parts on a particular vehicle. Maybe try searching there for info. I'll try them too... I usually use Carpartsmanual.com and cross check it to nissanpartsdeal.com. Even autozone , orielleys and rockauto... Depends on what I'm trying to find .. I need to try checking the gasket application again.... I did use autozone for that search... 1 Quote Link to comment
Stoffregen Motorsports Posted February 1, 2023 Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 car-part.com is a wrecking yard database, so it shows what's actually in the vehicles, not what some book says is supposed to be there. 1 Quote Link to comment
thisismatt Posted February 1, 2023 Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 Didn't they switch to H233 axles? Maybe just the v6, but possibly the late four-cylinder also 1 Quote Link to comment
datzenmike Posted February 1, 2023 Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 H-233 were only on the V6 D21 and WD21. Four cylinder got H-190 2wd and C200 4x4. The H-233 is larger than a Ford 9" and insanely heavy. I see no sense in going to larger thicker H-190 axles. H-233 and H-190 2 Quote Link to comment
Crashtd420 Posted February 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 I'm starting to think this is all a dead idea.... I'm guessing the gasket info is bit wrong.... Quote Link to comment
wayno Posted February 2, 2023 Report Share Posted February 2, 2023 (edited) The 1993 D21 with an H190 has the same axle tooth count as all the earlier H190s in trucks(except 320s) as I installed that H190 LSD in that 1993 with 3.50 gears into a 620 axle across the aisle in the wrecking yard to make sure it fit as I could not believe I found an actual H190 LSD, the pinion flange was different, so I installed the one from the 620 3rd member in it and it worked great, I drove it that way for a while but did not like it, when I found a set of 3.3 gears from a mileage option 720 I put them in my 521 kingcab turbodiesel, it is a lot safer to drive without the LSD. Edited February 2, 2023 by wayno 2 1 Quote Link to comment
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