1972 Datsun 240Z project, aka Paddy

[datsunfreak]

Been hankering for another S30 for awhile now. A friend had this abandoned race car project taking up space, so I went and looked at it yesterday. 

 

VIN looks to be a mid-year 1972 build, and the title says 1972...

 

 

 

The previous owner elected to have the car media blasted, but then it got left outside. So I see lots of work ahead before I can even start on the build portion...  😄

 

 

 

It has an interesting cage in it. The floor was rusty so he cut it out and built the cage into the car, reenforcing all the bulkheads and frame rails...

 

 

 

 

Removed spare tire well also...

 

 

 

 

Cage ties into front frame rails on the bottom...

 

 

 

 

Also made these weird engine mounts on the strut towers. Those will be first to go...

 

 

 

Not sure if I want to get it blasted again, or if I just want to work all the surface rust off one panel at a time. Guess it depends on how much I can get it blasted (or dipped) for...

 

I know it looks like it is missing a ton of parts, but they are all coming with the car. Thankfully, the doors were not disassembled or blasted, but the tailgate was. 

 

It's gonna be a little while before I can pick it up and get started, but I am stoked. There's no engine/trans, so I can kind do whatever I want there. Still undecided but thinking either 302 V8, or SR20DET. It'll be awhile before a decision needs to be made on engine though...  😁

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by datsunfreak

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I would definitely have it blasted again, but maybe not before you do some fab. Grinding flings residue that sticks to blasted surfaces.

 

I have them blasted twice. Once in the beginning to make the work easier and reveal rot, and then a second time after all repairs and fab are done. I've also been having the bodies powder coated with a zinc rich coating that is better than factory applied e-coat, though it may not reach all the spots that a dip can.

[Duncan]

Wow!  I can't believe someone paid to have it all stripped and did nothing to protect the bare metal.

 

Looks like quite a big project.  I'll be following along.

 

In your search for parts, if you happen to run across a manual pedal box, or the parts to convert the existing setup to a manual, please give me a shout.  I have a clean donor and a parts S30 and I have been toying using 2 to make 1.  Unfortunately, both are auto trans.  😞

 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Duncan

[datsunfreak]

57 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Wow!  I can't believe someone paid to have it all stripped and did nothing to protect the bare metal.

 

 

Supposedly, the PO who was building it had to relocate to Georgia for work and didn't want to take it with him. My friend who bought it (that I got it from) said "yeah, I meant to paint it before I put it outside but just never got around to it". Famous last words...   😄

 

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

In your search for parts, if you happen to run across a manual pedal box, or the parts to convert the existing setup to a manual, please give me a shout.  I have a clean donor and a parts S30 and I have been toying using 2 to make 1.  Unfortunately, both are auto trans.  😞

 

Well, as it happens, my current plan is to convert this car to RHD using these. So the stock pedals are of very little use to me. 😁

 

 

[datsunfreak]

6 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

I would definitely have it blasted again, but maybe not before you do some fab. Grinding flings residue that sticks to blasted surfaces.

 

Good call. 👍

 

There's definitely a few things I need to do/fab before paint.

 

6 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

I've also been having the bodies powder coated with a zinc rich coating that is better than factory applied e-coat

 

What does that typically run? 

[datsunfreak]

7 hours ago, datsunfreak said:

Still undecided but thinking either 302 V8, or SR20DET. It'll be awhile before a decision needs to be made on engine though...  

 

Funny, I was just discussing this with a friend today who is in the midst of doing an LS swap to his S14. Seems he is motivated to sell his boosted KA24DE, so...  😁

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, datsunfreak said:

Well, as it happens, my current plan is to convert this car to RHD using these. So the stock pedals are of very little use to me. 😁

 

I'm in on the pedals.  No rush, but I'll take 'em whenever you get around to them.  Awesome!

 

 

[datsunfreak]

12 hours ago, Duncan said:

I'm in on the pedals.  No rush, but I'll take 'em whenever you get around to them. 

 

If you want the whole assembly (see below), I should have them out hopefully by this summer. I need to weld in a cross bar for a column mount and I want to get the height right for a "stock" column first. 

 

15 hours ago, Duncan said:

In your search for parts, if you happen to run across a manual pedal box, or the parts to convert the existing setup to a manual, please give me a shout. 

 

FYI, on most Datsuns (and an S30 is no different), the pedal box is the same, it's just the pedals that are different. Worst-case, there's just not a hook for the return spring on the clutch pedal (which is easily fixable).

 

Last conversion I did on a 240Z only required swapping pedals, which is WAY easier. To swap the assembly often requires removing the dash, or at least unbolting it and sliding it out a few inches.  

 

I said all that to say this, if you just want the pedals only, I can maybe do that sooner. 

[datsunfreak]

Also, for any Oregonians reading this, this car came from the Medford/Grant's Pass area. 😁

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

21 hours ago, datsunfreak said:

 

Good call. 👍

 

There's definitely a few things I need to do/fab before paint.

 

 

What does that typically run? 

If the body is already stripped of the factory sound deadener, the stuff under the seats, the cost to blast is usually around $1000. Add epoxy primer for about $300 or powder coating for about another grand. I recently had an FJ60 Land Cruiser body stripped and the removable panels powder coated, but the body epoxy primed and it cost $4700. I was shocked, and I must have relayed that on my face, because the shop owner knocked $500 off right away.

[Duncan]

10 hours ago, datsunfreak said:

 

If you want the whole assembly (see below), I should have them out hopefully by this summer. I need to weld in a cross bar for a column mount and I want to get the height right for a "stock" column first.

 

I said all that to say this, if you just want the pedals only, I can maybe do that sooner.

 

I don't have details on it, but I read somewhere that the auto pedal box has the capability to be converted to manual.  Maybe you posted this ages ago?  Anyway, not in a rush at all, and whatever is easier is usually the best for me.  I think shipping would be cheaper, too.

 

I'm still sitting on the fence on getting this going.  If I do, it's to get it running and driving, and doing NOTHING like the wagon as far as restoration work.  Get the drivetrain happening, then repair/upgrade the suspension, brakes, interior, etc, etc after it's driving..

 

I also like the idea of a V8 S30, too.  My Mom had a S30 when they were new, and I'm bit leery of a V8 because it probably turns the "sportscar-ness" of it into more of a drag racer type of ride.  Over the last ten years, I've driven a few Sunbeam Tigers vs the Alpines, and both are equally fun, but in different ways.  With that said, I'm a sucker for big-ass motors in small cars 🙂

 

I also have my 300hp-ish 40 Ford which is pretty fun, too.

 

  

 

[datsunfreak]

16 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

If the body is already stripped of the factory sound deadener, the stuff under the seats, the cost to blast is usually around $1000. Add epoxy primer for about $300 

 

That's probably doable. 👍

 

16 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

 had an FJ60 Land Cruiser body stripped and the removable panels powder coated, but the body epoxy primed and it cost $4700. I was shocked

 

That is definitely not doable. 😄

[datsunfreak]

13 hours ago, Duncan said:

I don't have details on it, but I read somewhere that the auto pedal box has the capability to be converted to manual.  Maybe you posted this ages ago?  

 

Probably. 😁

 

I recently did an auto-to-manual swap on a friend's S30 (actually the guy I am getting this car from), and all we did on his was swap pedals. As I recall, the tab to hook the return spring on is missing, but we just hooked it onto another hole in the pedal box right next to where the tab should be and it worked a treat. 👍

 

13 hours ago, Duncan said:

I'm still sitting on the fence on getting this going.  If I do, it's to get it running and driving, and doing NOTHING like the wagon as far as restoration work.  Get the drivetrain happening, then repair/upgrade the suspension, brakes, interior, etc, etc after it's driving..

 

Yeah, I keep telling myself I need to do that, and then keep buying cars that need EVERYTHING. 🙃

 

If I finish the Galaxie project, this Z will definitely be the last car I build this way.

 

13 hours ago, Duncan said:

I also like the idea of a V8 S30, too.  My Mom had a S30 when they were new, and I'm bit leery of a V8 because it probably turns the "sportscar-ness" of it into more of a drag racer type of ride.  Over the last ten years, I've driven a few Sunbeam Tigers vs the Alpines, and both are equally fun, but in different ways. 

 

In most cases, they handle better after the V8 swap (assuming it is sprung correctly). It adds a bit of weight, yes, but it moves that weight back behind the axle centerline. The stock engine has a lot of weight hung out in front of the centerline. And the L6 is kind of a heavy engine anyway. In truth, a Ford 302 is roughly the same weight as an L28. It's only the older Chevy engine that is heavier. If you use a modern LS the weight gain is negligible, even better so if you use one of the all aluminum variants.  

 

I helped a friend swap a 302 into his Z (again, same guy 😄) and it was a lot of fun to drive. Way more torque than I am used to in a Z, but it did not spoil the "essence" of the car as so many claim. 

 

I think a lot of people who shit on V8s in Zs have never actually driven a well sorted one. 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by datsunfreak

[datsunfreak]

Also, good note on manual swapping a Z, save some time and go ahead and take the seat out. Put a blanket on the floor and do it on your back. This makes it a lot easier. 

 

On a Z (unlike a 510/1200) the pedals are just too far away from the door hole to comfortably reach. Especially if you are a seasoned mechanic who is maybe not as limber as he once was.  😉

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I would absolutely put a V8 into a Z car. My old friend Darius had a couple but his black one is the one everyone knows him for. Super fast, but also very balanced and tractable.

 

[datsunfreak]

2 hours ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

I would absolutely put a V8 into a Z car.

 

I am a big fan. Just trying to decide between that and a turbo 4. The KA24DE(T) would be cheaper but as for fab it's about a wash.

 

 

Side note, spoke to my tow guy (also a hot rod builder) and he said he knows a guy who can blast and epoxy prime for around $1000, so will probably take that route sooner rather than later. 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Nice. That's a good deal.

 

A turbo 4 would be really cool, but if you're ever going to sell it, I think a V8 would bring more money. Oh, a fuel injected V8. Honestly, I'd go LS. For resale, for power, smoothness, parts availability. You name it, it's a better motor all around.

[datsunfreak]

29 minutes ago, Stoffregen Motorsports said:

Honestly, I'd go LS. For resale, for power, smoothness, parts availability. You name it, it's a better motor all around.

 

Well, it kinda loses in weight, cost, and complexity (for me). I am extremely familiar with KAs and SRs but have almost know hands-on experience with the LS. 

 

And if I went into it planning to sell it, I'd never buy it. 😄

 

 

I do like the LS, it's just a much higher budget option than the Ford or Nissan powerplants. To me, where the LS wins, is you can buy off-the-shelf pre-fab motor mounts, as well as custom harnesses that are plug and play, and that's a big difference maker. But is that a big enough difference for me? Tough to say...

 

I still have yet to find a good (and affordable) transmission option for the LS swap. The T5s are cheap but weak, the T56s are strong but crazy expensive. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by datsunfreak

[datsunfreak]

23 minutes ago, datsunfreak said:

I still have yet to find a good (and affordable) transmission option for the LS swap. The T5s are cheap but weak, the T56s are strong but crazy expensive. 

 

Did some digging and the newer TR6060 seems cheaper (for some odd reason), but not easy to get...

 

Edit: but has it's own issues aside from cost

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by datsunfreak

[datsunfreak]

1 hour ago, datsunfreak said:

To me, where the LS wins, is you can buy off-the-shelf pre-fab motor mounts,

 

Well, that's one off the list. Had the epiphany that the pre-fab SR mounts will bolt up to a KA, so...

[Duncan]

9 hours ago, datsunfreak said:

I helped a friend swap a 302 into his Z (again, same guy ) and it was a lot of fun to drive. Way more torque than I am used to in a Z, but it did not spoil the "essence" of the car as so many claim.

 

That's good to hear.  I was just making an assumption based on the Tiger/Sunbeam cars.  They have a much smaller wheelbase and than the Z, and the Tigers have a built-in suspension problems due to a poor ackerman angle. With that said, they are hella fun to pilot around.  Cause Carroll Shelby.

 

There was a guy one year at the Arizona Datsun show that had an LS motor S30 with a manual trans, and it was as smooth as a gravy sandwich 🙂  He said he was getting around 22-ish mpg on trips with average speeds of around 75mph.   I also don't want to spend that kind of money, but I'm sure it would be fun to have..

 

 

[paradime]

Although a 302's torque would be better under 2.5K rpm and likely cheeper, I'm a fan of the SR20DET with top mount GTX2867R. Got one in my 510 making an easy 400hp on stock internals with some head work, and it pulls F'n hard up to 8K. Stupid fun in a 510, but in a Z chassis it would be obscene. Z Car Garage did one for Larry Chen, the guy from Hoonigan. I'm sure you've seen it, but DAMN I was drooling the whole time watch the VT vid.

 

 

Larry ChenLarry Che

[datsunfreak]

12 hours ago, paradime said:

Although a 302's torque would be better under 2.5K rpm and likely cheeper, I'm a fan of the SR20DET with top mount GTX2867R. Got one in my 510 making an easy 400hp on stock internals... I'm sure you've seen it, but DAMN I was drooling the whole time watch the VT vid.Larry henLarry Che

 

Did see it, and I think an SR would be killer in the car. Problem is, have you priced an SR lately? 😄

 

There is no fucking way I'm spending $6000+ on a used 30 year old engine. That's just dumb. A few years ago when they were selling for $2500, sure. Not now. For fuck's sake, I could spend less money on an ecoboost Mustang engine that's 3-4 years old and make the same power, and have a better transmission. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/314343768705?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&srsltid=Ad5pg_HJAF7E26wCCRKP7z_6csIC_qvRpNc_urZZF8soS5BLbHLL6_FfdUU

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275621871834?epid=1066624487&hash=item402c5800da:g:D08AAOSwK~hjwgYk&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoNnKYJNS0s0GCWkNIHXrm9oIhnUJnqjO%2BH1Y5SddAm5Lu7ZwpLFPTQf47HrLaog7d5tFHYDFawNd%2FOugrYPibs%2Fa5YbaQAICKN81rtlcGbDstRAl%2BZ9skwGZxGfWO%2B9ZoxSiYaMc4BUmnkPw0X%2BQPo9zODkc0rHjs6EW52wEyo%2By5iyYK%2BDXm5TCnpJjiV%2F8ShMST2CUD%2BKosAmIvwjGJ2o%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6bF5KHCYQ

 

Unfortunately they were priced a lot more sensibly back when you bought yours. Heck, the red top I put in my S13 ten years ago was $2000 shipped to my door. 

 

I think (at this point) for the sake of budget, ease of install, torque, etc I am going to buy the turbo KA24DE from my buddy. It ran great in his car and comes with just about everything I need to get it up and going (minus fuel pump). 👍

 

It's 1/4 the price of an SR and is ready to run, not a guarantee you'd get these days with the used SR. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by datsunfreak

[datsunfreak]

14 hours ago, Duncan said:

That's good to hear.  I was just making an assumption based on the Tiger/Sunbeam cars.  They have a much smaller wheelbase and than the Z,

 

Here's one that blows my mind, and usually the mind of anyone I say it to, did you know the S30 Z has the same wheelbase as a 1200? In fact, the 510's wheelbase is almost 5" longer. 

 

Of course the Sunbeam's wheelbase is 4" shorter than a Z, which sounds frightening with that much power... 😄

[datzenmike]

1200.................. 2300mm

S30................... 2305mm

280zx............... 2320mm

B-210/S10........ 2340mm

A10................... 2400mm

510................... 2420mm

521................... 2530mm

620 (reg)......... 2545mm

620 (long)....... 2785mm

720 (reg)......... 2575mm

720 (long)....... 2814mm

810.................. 2650mm

Maxima........... 2625mm