67 411 1600 (SSS) Wagon

[Greaser2]

So I picked up this 1600 wagon last spring out of Arizona, really good shape for a Datsun very little rust.  It was a roller and came with the rebuilt long block and most of the parts to put back together.  Plan was to just get it running and driving so installed motor and trans.   Also replaced all bearings and seals in the rear end and front wheel bearing.  However, the trans is noisy so have pulled it back out for a rebuild so more to come on that.  Also plan to rebuild the front suspension and body and paint.  So, wanted to start a thread.

[datzenmike]

The counter shaft gears ride on a counter shaft down the center of them with a pair of needle bearings at each end to support it. The counter shaft is under the most stress in every gear but fourth. Usually the transmission is quieter or quiet driving in fourth and most noisy the lower gears.

 

[Greaser2]

If my memory is correct, it was noisy in all gears, especially 4th.  

[Greaser2]

U can see where the bearings ride on the shaft but I took multiple measurements and it’s very consistently 15.95 to 16.05 mm. Not sure why there is the half moon on the shaft.  

[datzenmike]

Isn't that where the needle bearings rub.  

[Greaser2]

It is. Your pic has the same grove right 

[datzenmike]

It's just a picture I have of an F4W63 being taken apart. It was damaged. That counter shaft needs replacing. The part number is 32211-14600/A0900/A0901 or A0951. I don't know if Nissan would have one but there were lots of cars that used it... 521/510/610/710/A10 The last year used was the '81 A10 HL510 with the Z20 engine. The needle bearings are also the same as the later cars. One thing odd is later F4W63 counter shafts are drilled for a 'retaining pin'. It would still work in yours, just have a small hole through it

 

Except 4th gear, (which transmits power straight through the mainshaft) when under load the main shaft and the countershaft want to push apart from each other. It's the bearings that hold them in place and prevent this, but it's hard on them. If this is an early F4W63 then it will survive an L20B, so about 100hp. About all you can do is change the oil which I assume is 5 year 30k miles. By the time a car gets to the second owner and certainly the third owner the value is low enough that required upkeep and maintenance starts to slip. It's paid for itself and gets ignored.

[Greaser2]

I have a new shaft ordered.  Since the needle bearings we’re intact I didn’t think they were the problem but closer inspection shows plenty or scouring. Otherwise just waiting on replacement parts.  

[Greaser2]

Goal #1 complete.  Trans rebuilt. Thanks to Mike for pointing out the obvious and parts numbers.  Pretty easy trans to work on. 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Curious how you installed the countershaft and cluster gear. I have a shortened original shaft that I slip into the cluster gear before dropping it into the case, whcih I then push out with the un-cut shaft.

 

We had these transmissions in our 510 ITC race cars and rebuilding them annually was a must. They would blow up often if they were old and worn out. So light and easy to R&R in the car. I swapped a clutch at the race track in less than half an hour once.

[Greaser2]

The countershaft installs through the front, before installing the front cover, slide it in a bit to hold the front thrust washer, lay the cluster gears in with the needle bearings installed and align with all the gears, then push the shaft all the way through till you can install the rear thrust washer then push home.  Rotate the half moon to align the counter half moon in the front cover.  I could imagine if the needle bearing could not hold themselves in place you may need a dummy shaft.  These have a cage that gently hold them in place.  

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Ah, the 510 needle bearings are individual, with no cage.

[datzenmike]

So do some sector shaft needle bearings in the steering box..... Grease works

[Greaser2]

Got the engine bay stripped,  only problem is the fiberglass gopped on the battery shelf.  

[Greaser2]

Car had been hit front right at some point but not to bad. About 1/2 inch out at worst so spent 4 hours straightening back fairly close to original. 

[mrbigtanker]

Great start love to see were this goes.

[Greaser2]

Got the last piece needed to finish engine on my 66 912, so ready to install tonight. Hopefully fire up by next weekend.  

[Greaser2]

Hiding under the fiberglass 

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I've been tempted. Metal replacement can take soooo much longer.

 

I just spent the last 25 days repairing rust on my Jeep Cherokee. Those were 6-8 hour days. Had to make most of the panels. So yeah, I understand why people make those types of repairs.

[Greaser2]

Agree, kind of depends on your finish goals.  I cut the bracket off and trying to determine a replacement battery and size and location.  I can get a XSPower D925 in the rear tire compartment as an option but then there will be a empty shelf.  

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Remove the shelf and repair the hole.

 

That is a small battery and since it's AGM, it can be mounted in any orientation, like on it's side. Maybe under the seat? If going in the rear, you need long, big cables. Like 4ga minimum. 2ga would be better for that distance.

[Greaser2]

Metal welded in. Battery brackets gone. 

[Soundline]

Excellent work so far.  
 

I really like the idea of keeping the battery in the engine bay unless it is in a sealed container.  
 

I’m sure you know of the possibility of lead and sulfuric acid off gassing but I’ll cite a source here for people who may be new.

 

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-703-health-concerns-with-batteries

[Greaser2]

I'm a fan of AGM batteries.  XSPower D925 I've used in the past.  Will look a bit odd with just a shelf however.  

[MikeRL411]

31 minutes ago, Greaser2 said:

I'm a fan of AGM batteries.  XSPower D925 I've used in the past.  Will look a bit odd with just a shelf however.  

 In general, any Honda battery will fit.  It's the width that is the "must" to be satisfied   Ordinary batteries are too wide and will hit the alternator when installed. The original battery for the RL411 is shared with the 1964 Corvair and that's what you need to search for a new purchase. Quite a rare bird!  There is a RL411 specific plastic battery "cup" that sits below the battery. The original battery was prone to leakage of the acid due to internal cell molding capacity and had only a tar seal at top. This configuration corroded the Corvair sheet metal [in the engine compartment] and led manufacturers to stop providing this battery configuration.  GM did provide a later sealed configuration version but low demand led them to stop production. Every single battery in stock the last time I bought one had expired its shelf life and was dead! So much for DELCO. I would recommend a fabricated battery mount.  There isn't much clearance to the alternator.