Outside the Box Powertrain Swaps?

[partytron69000]

Hey Ratsun!  I'm brainstorming outside the box powertrain swap ideas for my 620.  Feel free to make suggestions to add to my list below, and also make critiques about why something wouldn't work logistically with the truck setup.

 

General requirements for swap:

- Fit semi-comfortably inside the engine bay.  Slight firewall modifications ok, but I'm not trying to completely remake a firewall from scratch.

- Factory RWD manual transmission version available.

- Put into a million+ vehicles to be found cheap at junkyards/salvage auctions (for when you pop the original swap engine and can just go grab another variant and slap it in).

- Modern fuel injection/ignition

 

Nice to have's:

- Factory turbo

- Variable valve timing/lift

 

Other important info:

- Will run off MegaSquirt2 ECU

- I'm not chasing big power, so not concerned with durability

 

Candidates:

- QR25DE and manual 2WD transmission from a 2005-2021 Frontier

   - Pro's:

      - Stays on brand with Nissan.

      - Wouldn't think I'd need to chop any of the firewall.

      - Modern FI/ignition.

      - Late model engine for easy maintenance parts availability.

      - There's millions of QR25's in all the Nissan vehicles from the same era.

      - Can snag a QR25 pullout all day on ebay for $350 shipped, and can buy a whole salvaged QR25 MT Frontier from Copart for pretty cheap.

      - I would get the rear end from the Frontier with a donor truck, so that could be swapped into the 620.

      - QR25 ebay turbo kits are CHEAP and everywhere.

   - Con's:

      - Not turbo

      - No variable valve timing/lift

 

- 2.3L EcoBoost and manual transmission from 2015-present Mustang

   - Pro's:

      - Wouldn't think I'd need to chop any of the firewall.

      - Modern FI/ignition.

      - Late model engine for easy maintenance parts availability.

      - Factory turbo

      - VCT

      - Already the "less desirable" Mustang, and they're just going to keep making more to add to the supply.

      - block compatibility with donors from Explorer and Lincoln MKC.

   - Con's:

      - Definitely more expensive than other options. Full pullouts sell on ebay for ~$7k, so I can imagine a whole salvage Mustang from Copart will be into five figures. (After review, it's honestly way outside my budget, but I want to keep it in for conversation sake)

      - VCT tuning is an added cost over static valve tuning.

 

Share your thoughts!  Thanks!

[bottomwatcher]

How are your fabrication skills? Got a welder? Comfortable building your own engine mounts, modify oil pan ect? 

[partytron69000]

19 minutes ago, bottomwatcher said:

How are your fabrication skills? Got a welder? Comfortable building your own engine mounts, modify oil pan ect? 

 

I'm all set on that front.  One of the main points of this whole truck build is improving my fab skills and 12v skills, so I plan to do most every piece of this myself unless it takes special machine work.  I've done project cars with engine swaps using aftermarket swap kits, so I'm ready to step up the difficulty.

[bottomwatcher]

I did a kae swap. A 30+ year old design now and at least some support as far as mounts and the can am box available here. If I were to go for a more modern engine I would only go the donor vehicle route. Chasing down all the parts that remained with donor vehicle separately was a pain in the ass and expensive. Also the newer engines are less tolerant to hacks. Removing only a couple sensors will result in the engine going into limp mode so you better have EVERYTHING. To do a ten year old engine and have it running engine code free would be pretty impressive.

[datzenmike]

2wd Frontiers have the same H-190 axle. Only the gear ratio would be different. Yours is 4.375 the Frontier varies from 3.54, 3.70 and 3.889 depending is automatic, standard and the wheel and tire choice etc. You'll probably want the 5 speed so 3.70 or 3.54. Just pull the third member and swap

[partytron69000]

2 hours ago, bottomwatcher said:

I did a kae swap. A 30+ year old design now and at least some support as far as mounts and the can am box available here. If I were to go for a more modern engine I would only go the donor vehicle route. Chasing down all the parts that remained with donor vehicle separately was a pain in the ass and expensive. Also the newer engines are less tolerant to hacks. Removing only a couple sensors will result in the engine going into limp mode so you better have EVERYTHING. To do a ten year old engine and have it running engine code free would be pretty impressive.

I’ll be running a megasquirt ecu, so the engine management isn’t really a concern. A megasquirt can more than handle a QR25. 

 

1 hour ago, datzenmike said:

2wd Frontiers have the same H-190 axle. Only the gear ratio would be different. Yours is 4.375 the Frontier varies from 3.54, 3.70 and 3.889 depending is automatic, standard and the wheel and tire choice etc. You'll probably want the 5 speed so 3.70 or 3.54. Just pull the third member and swap

Great info as always from you. Good to know, thanks. 

[RyanC]

Ive been thinking this why not any of the VQ's?  Have seen on you tube a 510 with a VQ25de, fitted easily in the 510.

 

I have been thinking down the track VQ 30/35/37/40, plenty of donks around, will fit easily only main fabrication other than mounts might be sump??

 

Turbo wise Vq25/30DET, but not sure there are many in the states.

 

Plenty of support from the Z community.

[thisismatt]

I like the idea of the V6, so I got a VQ and never put it in 😅.  I haven't used any standalone...but you sound confident, so yeah, why not a VQ?  I feel like I wouldn't bother with a swap if it wasn't at least 250ish-300hp/tq.  The VQ transmissions are long, especially with the shifter pushed even farther back with additional linkage, but there was the VQ40 in the xterra with the 6sp manual and the shifter location is on the transmission tail housing, not hanging off the back.  

[bottomwatcher]

Sounds like you got the skills covered. Looking forward to this.

[Skib]

Just a note on the VQ front. Even though they share the same name, the VQ35 and the VQ40 are not the same at all.
The VQ40 is more akin to the VK45 as far as size and mounting go.

[RyanC]

Yes makes sense only 500cc bigger but still the vq40 will be more compact.  

 

My BIL fitted a VK56 to his s15 recently, its tight but works.  I think the VH41 would be perfect in the 620 but needs some more measuring up.

[Skib]

Like the CD009 trans for the VQ35 doesn't even bolt up to a VQ40

[RyanC]

Yes makes it hard as it was only really ever in our pathfinders/navara and frontiers over in the states?  

 

These days an adapter plate is pretty easily sorted for most of the conversions.

[partytron69000]

9 hours ago, RyanC said:

Ive been thinking this why not any of the VQ's?  Have seen on you tube a 510 with a VQ25de, fitted easily in the 510.

 

I have been thinking down the track VQ 30/35/37/40, plenty of donks around, will fit easily only main fabrication other than mounts might be sump??

 

Turbo wise Vq25/30DET, but not sure there are many in the states.

 

Plenty of support from the Z community.

 

8 hours ago, thisismatt said:

I like the idea of the V6, so I got a VQ and never put it in 😅.  I haven't used any standalone...but you sound confident, so yeah, why not a VQ?  I feel like I wouldn't bother with a swap if it wasn't at least 250ish-300hp/tq.  The VQ transmissions are long, especially with the shifter pushed even farther back with additional linkage, but there was the VQ40 in the xterra with the 6sp manual and the shifter location is on the transmission tail housing, not hanging off the back.  

@RyanC @thisismatt I’ve seen the few examples of VQ swaps in 620’s. Haven’t seen one done yet that can fit under the stock hood, and I’m not a fan of fiberglass hoods with big notches. You’re right that it’d be a better choice…if size wasn’t a constraint. 

 

5 hours ago, RyanC said:

Yes makes it hard as it was only really ever in our pathfinders/navara and frontiers over in the states?  

 

These days an adapter plate is pretty easily sorted for most of the conversions.

Check out LOJ conversions. They make adapter plates to make a CD00X bolt up to anything. 

[partytron69000]

I’ve got some buddies who used to work in the new vehicle program at HQ. Their critique of the QR25 is:

- late mode engines aren’t overbuilt like older ones were. So be prepared to build the short block if I want to go past 300hp (which I don’t). Thankfully JWT and Crower already make internals for the QR25 to support the Sentra guys.  There’s also a QR specialty shop about 3hrs from me, so that’s convenient. 

- trans tunnel clearance. But I’d much rather custom fab a trans tunnel than a firewall. Haven’t ever done either before but the tunnel seems generally easier since it will be hidden under a center console and carpet. 
 

His other suggestion to add to my list was a VR30, but just based off pictures, seems like I’d run into clearance issues from the width. Plus the prices on VR30 pullouts doubled in the past year, about $5-6k. 
 

Thanks everyone for the good discussion. Anyone else got outside the box suggestions? Nissan brand or not. 

[thisismatt]

Not sure why, it should fit (with effort). I've seen them fit into Z cars, 510's, 210's, without sticking out the hood

[thisismatt]

Yamaha SHO V6 would be cool, but hard to find these days.

[partytron69000]

11 minutes ago, thisismatt said:

Not sure why, it should fit (with effort). I've seen them fit into Z cars, 510's, 210's, without sticking out the hood

It very well could, I just haven’t seen it done yet. If I can find a VQ/2wd manual trans Frontier on copart for about the same price as a QR/manual trans one, I would be tempted to give it a go. I’m just dead set on some whooshie noises from a Chinese choo choo boy, and seems like it’ll be easier from a clearance standpoint to fit the intercooler/piping/manifold with a QR over a VQ.

[thisismatt]

Well yeah, that's a given 😅

[ToastyBass]

I have a bit of a side question.

What axle is your 620 equipped with? I'm guessing an H190.

I'm trying to source out a better rear axle than my tiny H155 for my KA24DE swap.

Current plan is to order a new BW78 + diff from Japan (for an R31 Skyline), but that'll be around $3,000 (not including shipping!)

I'm researching about using a D21 rear axle, but not finding much on width and 4-lug conversions [I love my Enkei Compe's]

 

Sorry to interject, if anyone has ideas/info, HMU!

 

As far as powertrain swaps, QR25 sounds like a good idea! Would an RB20 fit?

I know ppl don't like them b/c power's hard to gain, but I think about how good the S20 sounded.

(And it's a relatively light vehicle, after all...)

 

[RyanC]

I don't think the USA got them but I'm planning a y60 patrol rear end swap, but I also don't have a bullet side so have room for them to protrude, but like many other swaps could easily be shortened.  The y60/y61 is a very strong unit and comes with lsd and discs.

 

I would have thought plenty of height in the engine bay for a vq but I haven't measured?  I mean there is much more than the 510's.

 

Could go back to a VG30?  

Or another one I think someone sells kits for was the holden 3.8 pushrod v6, I think thats a buick donk modified by holden.  

Must be plenty of NON Nissan 6's in the states.

 

Qr sounds like a plan though, pretty sure thats what was in our xtrail.

[datzenmike]

The B-210 had H-145 through '74 and H-150 after.

 

D21 Hardbody is crazy wide. For $3000 you could easily get an H-223 from a D21 or WD21 an have it narrowed. The 4.375 and 4.465 were 4 pinion and LSD but 2wd KA powered trucks did come with 3.545 and 3.70 ring and pinions that should swap in to keep the LSD. The H-223 is larger than a Ford 9 inch.

[partytron69000]

13 hours ago, RyanC said:

I don't think the USA got them but I'm planning a y60 patrol rear end swap, but I also don't have a bullet side so have room for them to protrude, but like many other swaps could easily be shortened.  The y60/y61 is a very strong unit and comes with lsd and discs.

 

I would have thought plenty of height in the engine bay for a vq but I haven't measured?  I mean there is much more than the 510's.

 

Could go back to a VG30?  

Or another one I think someone sells kits for was the holden 3.8 pushrod v6, I think thats a buick donk modified by holden.  

Must be plenty of NON Nissan 6's in the states.

 

Qr sounds like a plan though, pretty sure thats what was in our xtrail.

Well the idea was to try and find engines with modern FI/ignition systems. I wouldn’t include the VG30 in that category. 
 

Rattle off some of those non-Nissan 6’s with RWD manual trans you think might fit. I can research them. 

[RyanC]

The mitsibishi 3.8 v6 can be a monster, BIL has this with rather large turbo in his lancer 600+KW at all 4, these were in a Pajero, did these get sold over there?

NA they are pokey as well.  

 

I don't know the chevy/holden V6 they made for commodores here as in 3.0/3.6 versions here but I think it was in other capacities over there?

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Taurus SHO for the win!