Starter tooth count

[None_zero]

So I have detached the negative cable where it mounts to truck body and cleaned it the only other place it goes is to the thermostat am i correct in assuming my issue must be along the cable which connects to the negative terminal on the battery or could it be somewhere else. I've noticed since I've been messing with it the fuel pump relay sometimes begins to rapidly chatter after I attempt ignition 

[bottomwatcher]

Next up you need to make sure the body ground is good. It goes from the top of the valvecover to the body. You can do the jumper cable trick again from the batt negative to a clean spot off metal on the body.

[None_zero]

18 hours ago, bottomwatcher said:

Next up you need to make sure the body ground is good. It goes from the top of the valvecover to the body. You can do the jumper cable trick again from the batt negative to a clean spot off metal on the body.

Ok I've cleaned and reattached the negative terminal to body ground still no dice so ill do this valve cover to ground and see where we are 

[None_zero]

Nope negative terminal to body equals no change 

[None_zero]

I think what I just did is redundant though because the negative terminal on my battery goes directly to the body before ending at the thermostat housing

[bottomwatcher]

You want redundancy because you are probably experiencing ground issues. The starter trick worked because the ground cable connection is not strong enough. A meter will read continuity but not how many amps a cable will carry. Most issues are not in the 12 volt component but in the connections. Sorry I didn't go back and read the rest of the post but did you have your old starter tested?

[NC85ST]

I still think you need to try putting a relay between your switch and starter. I’ll almost bet it will solve your problem. You’ve seemed to have tried about everything else.

[None_zero]

5 minutes ago, NC85ST said:

I still think you need to try putting a relay between your switch and starter. I’ll almost bet it will solve your problem. You’ve seemed to have tried about everything else.

So hook jumper to ignition switch neg and starter body??

[NC85ST]

I used a relay that you can install a 30amp blade fuse. Take the small wire that goes to the solenoid and attach it to #86 on the relay. Run a ground wire to pin #85. I used 12 gauge wire from pin #30 to battery positive. Then 12 gauge wire from pin #87 back to the solenoid.

[None_zero]

2 hours ago, NC85ST said:

I used a relay that you can install a 30amp blade fuse. Take the small wire that goes to the solenoid and attach it to #86 on the relay. Run a ground wire to pin #85. I used 12 gauge wire from pin #30 to battery positive. Then 12 gauge wire from pin #87 back to the solenoid.

If the truck was relatively stock I might be able to do that without a diagram. But in reality the wiring coming off the fuses and connecting the relays is I believe correct but is the result of a bunch of guess work mixed with trial and error that usually functions nicely but I hardly even know what I did when I put all that together back what maybe 3 years ago. Im not even sure at present which relay is the starter relay. Is it normally mounted passenger side by the fuel relay or along the top of the fuse box? Also additional information I noticed today that when I popped the hood the blower motor kicked on. Which is passing strange so I began to think my issue may lie some where in that self same mess of wiring a fellow at a shop down in Texas updated my on switch and ignition switch and acc switch because the one I had on there was shorting out. Anyway he zip tied the mass of wiring to the hood release cable so im thinking one tug too many may have pulled something loose. Also one of my fuses 15a 10th from the front and 6th from the back is fused to the fuse mount assembly so hard that i had to pull it with pliers and still left the upper contact married to the plastic what would cause that to fry that so hard? Isn't that sort of what fuses are for is preventing that sort of thing?

[None_zero]

Im thinking maybe whatever surged and fried the fuse may have also burnt the starter motor since its welded to the housing maybeb it didn't pop and break the connection quickly enough and the carryover damaged the starter motor. I never think to check fuses likely its been toast the whole time but I tested the starter and only got about 30% functional results 33% whatever once every 3 times id make the connection it would pushbthe solenoid and start spinning. Thoughts? Maybe my faulty ground is at the root of the problem or is it way more simple than that and its just a fuse that didn't separate well and caused damage to the parts?

[None_zero]

Relay is also fried.... sigh

[datzenmike]

There are no fuses connected in any way to the starter. No fuse or anything else will hurt a starter.

 

The body does not need to be grounded for the starter to work but does need grounding for just about everything else. All you need is a good supply of 12v to the ignition switch and it sends a 12v start signal to the starter that IS grounded to the engine.

 

 

I assume that you removed both battery cables, cleaned the ends and the posts and tightened them back on ????????????????????????????

 

They look like this??? This is one of the worst types of replacement clamps. Gert rid of and get new cables.

 

Unbolt the ground cable to the intake, clean it and bolt it back on. 

Unbolt the positive cable to the starter lug, clean it and bolt it back on.

 

[NC85ST]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, the instructions I gave you were not for the factory setup. This is additional wiring. With a truck that is over 35 years old, sometimes the signal from the ignition switch to the starter gets weak and needs help. Buying a relay and installing it as outlined above, may take care of the problem you’re having.

[NC85ST]

Something like this.

[datzenmike]

The start signal can be measured. I had about 8v so I installed a hot start relay. You can just shove a wrench from the starter positive battery cable across the start signal terminal to give it 12v. If it works the starter 100% of the time but using the key is less than this you probably need the relay.

[None_zero]

Ok i haven't had a chance to do anything with the old girl for quite some time I was worried about the starter being  wrong still so I removed  it and tested it next to the original they both spin the same direction which I had concerns about because of the reversed posts. I did indeed clean the battery posts and clamps and removed the ground connection and sanded it clean and reattached. As it happens I have a few relays that I ordered wrong and never returned. Its a wve part number 1R1068 4 post relay would that suffice? It doesn't have a fuse but I suppose if it was absolutely necessary I could wire one onto it. I still need to figure out what fuse fried if thst is not the starter and what relay associated with it also. I have considered that somewhere along the wiring in the harness it has melted through its coating and is dumping the voltage before reaching the starter is this possible or am I way off base 

[None_zero]

I should also mention that the old starter turned justonf enough for me to ensure correct direction of spin and then turned no more so it is definitely dead 

[NC85ST]

You don’t have to have the fused type, it’s just added protection for the circuit. If you already have a relay, try wiring it up and see if it makes a difference.

[None_zero]

On 10/19/2021 at 6:31 PM, NC85ST said:

You don’t have to have the fused type, it’s just added protection for the circuit. If you already have a relay, try wiring it up and see if it makes a difference.

Any chance you could post picture of correct setup or did you already do that its been so long I'll look back if you alresdy did thanks 

[None_zero]

Are we still using photo bucket or whatever to post pics or is that sorted out where we can do it direct ?

[datzenmike]

Absolutely NOT photobastards

[NC85ST]

Take the small wire that goes to the solenoid on the starter and attach it to pin #86 on the relay. Run a ground wire to pin #85. I used 12 gauge wire from pin #30 to battery positive. Then 12 gauge wire from pin #87 back to the solenoid.

Sorry I don’t have a picture of it. You wouldn’t be able to see much anyway.

[None_zero]

On 11/2/2021 at 5:09 PM, NC85ST said:

Take the small wire that goes to the solenoid on the starter and attach it to pin #86 on the relay. Run a ground wire to pin #85. I used 12 gauge wire from pin #30 to battery positive. Then 12 gauge wire from pin #87 back to the solenoid.

Sorry I don’t have a picture of it. You wouldn’t be able to see much anyway.

What to do if the pins aren't numbered or marked in any way its a four blade relay, four post whatever it's called 

Edited November 4, 2021 by None_zero

[banzai510(hainz)]