Starter tooth count

[None_zero]

My starter has gone out on the 720. I ordered one off of rock auto but when I went to install it it looked a little different so I did my due diligence and counted the teeth. My old starter has 9 teeth and my new starter only has 8 (must have come from Tennessee) Jokes aside though is there any way the ratio is acceptable and will not destroy my fly wheel if I install the 8 tooth starter?

[datzenmike]

I would take it back. There are auto and standard starters for the Z24 but the gears are the same part number... also the same gear as on the L20B starter but Z22/Z20 gears are a different number, for what ever reason, but I'm sure it will fit and work, though it is for a smaller displacement engine. Then there are the gear reduction starters. 

[None_zero]

I have the z20 2.0 mileage.. I don't think I understood what you were saying though. You think the 8 tooth will functionally replace the 9 tooth?

Edited September 1, 2021 by None_zero

[datzenmike]

2 hours ago, datzenmike said:

I would take it back.

 

There.

[banzai510(hainz)]

MIke I also want to know this as My 280zx GR is a 9 tooth but the troy ermish starter the HITORQ ones are 11 he sells for the 510.  I havent run it. but alwasy wonder  wont fit on a 521 due to hitting the frame

[datzenmike]

I would think that if the center line of the starter were moved slightly away from the flywheel you could increase the diameter of the starter gear and add an extra tooth. Likewise moving closer you could add a tooth... but I don't know.

 

I just went out and pulled three starters out of my shed, one was a gear reduction and all were 9 tooth.

[None_zero]

Alright I hear ya. It just sucks since I can't take it back I have to ship it back. .. whats up with the 9 tooth starters you got? Want to sell one, or im thinking probably its just the solenoid thats bad right i just went ahead and bought the whole starter just in case. Could I swap the solenoid off the new one to the 9 tooth and run it like that? Still a shame cause on the new one they moved the solenoid around the starter a little ways towards the block so that damn bolt isn't behind it anymore.. 

[datzenmike]

 That would depend on what it was doing that you replaced it.

[None_zero]

It was doing nothing if I recall correctly. I haven't hit the button for a couple months I've just been giving it the fred Flintstone start

[banzai510(hainz)]

most time its the selinoid

I would try to put 12volts to it  staraight from batter in case its a weak starter signal wire

[datzenmike]

9 hours ago, None_zero said:

It was doing nothing if I recall correctly. I haven't hit the button for a couple months I've just been giving it the fred Flintstone start

 

Starter can't turn unless there is a click from the solenoid. The solenoid pushes the gear out to the ring gear and makes the power connection to the battery. Solenoid may be bad or no start signal from the ignition switch, or as Hainz said a weak signal from old thin wiring. My 710 would at least click several times before the starter would catch and begin turning. Start signal was only 7v.

[NC85ST]

Have you tried testing your old starter? I had the problem of not getting a strong enough signal to the solenoid, so I ran a relay between the switch and the solenoid. Solved the issue.

[None_zero]

Yes I did end up testing the old starter. Seems the motor is whats going bad it will start if you've got someone tapping on it and yes it does click when it doesn't start. However I have bigger problems right now. I have been getting oil pressure light off and on for a week or three goes off as I accelerate and comes back while maintaining speed and idling. While inspecting the sensor I noticed I had a coolant leak somewhere just above the oil pressure sensor so I'm thinking maybe the water leaking onto the sensor was causing it to short or something. While looking for why and where the leak was from I changed the thermostat since I had one laying around and the old one seemed to be rusted stuck. Next day I over heated on the way to work and had to stop twice on the way home to keep from getting too hot. I still had coolant as the leak was small from a cracked line going from water pump to base of the assembly that the carb sits on. When I made it home I checked the coolant hoses by grabbing them and squeezing to check pressure build up. Upper hose was hot and tight. Lower hose was hot on engine side and cool to the touch on rad side. I removed the water pump and radiator looking for blockages. Radiator is a bit smaller than original and may have been clogged by debris from within the system not sure. I cleaned it out but haven't reinstalled yet. I also removed the oil pump as it had occurred to me that maybe I wasn't getting lubrication moving and possible that was part of the problem. But like a dumbass I removed the oil pump without first placing the engine at TDC or securing the dizzy rotor... am I lining up the screw to the 4 o'clock position to match up with the oil pump?

[None_zero]

Also parts store claimed to not have a replacement of any kind for the coolant line i need anyone know of a tune up kit that may have all that stuff for a reasonable price so I can just replace all of them. Its clear the old girl is wanting me to spend some quality time touching her insides thats the only time she acts like this.

[None_zero]

On 9/2/2021 at 7:54 AM, banzai510(hainz) said:

most time its the selinoid

I would try to put 12volts to it  staraight from batter in case its a weak starter signal wire

Thats how I tested the starter i hooked it direct to a battery and jumped the positive and signal post it would only move about every third time I bridged the connection 

[datzenmike]

Then the solenoid is bad.

 

 

2 hours ago, None_zero said:

Yes I did end up testing the old starter. Seems the motor is whats going bad it will start if you've got someone tapping on it and yes it does click when it doesn't start. However I have bigger problems right now. I have been getting oil pressure light off and on for a week or three goes off as I accelerate and comes back while maintaining speed and idling. While inspecting the sensor I noticed I had a coolant leak somewhere just above the oil pressure sensor so I'm thinking maybe the water leaking onto the sensor was causing it to short or something. While looking for why and where the leak was from I changed the thermostat since I had one laying around and the old one seemed to be rusted stuck. Next day I over heated on the way to work and had to stop twice on the way home to keep from getting too hot. I still had coolant as the leak was small from a cracked line going from water pump to base of the assembly that the carb sits on. When I made it home I checked the coolant hoses by grabbing them and squeezing to check pressure build up. Upper hose was hot and tight. Lower hose was hot on engine side and cool to the touch on rad side. I removed the water pump and radiator looking for blockages. Radiator is a bit smaller than original and may have been clogged by debris from within the system not sure. I cleaned it out but haven't reinstalled yet. I also removed the oil pump as it had occurred to me that maybe I wasn't getting lubrication moving and possible that was part of the problem. But like a dumbass I removed the oil pump without first placing the engine at TDC or securing the dizzy rotor... am I lining up the screw to the 4 o'clock position to match up with the oil pump?

 

OIL Pressure.

Check oil level and top up as needed. Don't laugh.

Water won't affect the sensor. If it 'shorted out' it would be ON all the time.

The sender is under $10 so just change it. They should come on at around 8 PSI or lower. I guess it may be coming on at a higher pressure or your oil pressure really is that low. $10 will tell you..... or fix it.

 

OIL pump.

Take valve cover off and turn engine clockwise to TDC using the ignition timing scale and the notch on the rear of the crankshaft pulley. There are two TDC so make sure the number one cylinder valves are closed. That's the TDC you want. The engine is now at TDC. Put the spindle into the oil pump and align punch mark and hole.

Install and push up into place. You should see this when looking down the distributor hole...

 

 

Might take several tries. Have someone help.

 

COOLANT leak

The return hose from the heater connects to a T fitting on the underside of the intake manifold above the oil sender, then continues to the front and joins to the lower rad hose return on the timing cover above the alternator. Likely the hose and/or clamps are bad and leaking. Heater hoses are COMMON to all cars and trucks just different sizes. Where ever you went don't go back as they have idiots working there. Take one of the old hoses off and they will fit a replacement. Usually you can buy ity the foot and they will cut you a piece. Get new hose clamps to match.

 

THERMOSTAT

Wasn't over heating, but after changing thermostat it over heats. NEVER replace something that isn't broken. You cannot rely on a new part to be as good as an original Nissan part. In this case you put a bad part in that did not need replacing. Take the 'new' part back and get your $1.99 back. If replacing a thermostat pay $10 for a good one. Just put your old one back in. The reason the lower rad hose was cold was because the thermostat was not open and there was no coolant circulation through the rad.

 

Thermostat 'spring' side goes into the engine.

 

RAD

Only use distilled water in your rad to prevent dissolved calcium and lime deposits from tap water building up. While rad is out put the cap on and lay face down. Pour a container of CLR into it and top up with water and leave over night. This will dissolve the calcium/lime deposits. Rinse out the next day

[None_zero]

Ok thanks datzenmike that was incredibly thorough and helpful aside from the spring side of the thermostat comment... im a dumbass but damn mike that was cold. As for the rest all executed flawlessly with any luck. I set TDC on intake 1, (front most passenger side) put the lower (outermost contact on the distributor rotor a bit past 4 as the clock crows. Set 2 auxiliary whamens to watch and make sure it didn't move. (2 so that they could correct for auto worry. Did it move? I think it moved eeww im not sure..  all that) then I aligned the oil hole and the alignment hole with smaller half of the divided circle to the front and carefully slid it into place. Where it seated into place and I bolted it in at 10 ft lbs of torque. I didn't removed the thermostat as yet because I'm fairly certain the one that was in there is also stuck closed so I'll have to get a new one when I get the pressure sender and do them both plus ill have to get another gasket. The parts store had to have the last one shipped in as they don't have them on hand. Also need to get the "t" at the bottom of the intake manifold as it is falling apart with rust. Cleaned up all (ok most of..   ok a good bit of the oil and gunk that had scattered around from the last time I over torqued the valve gasket causing a leak. I've since replaced that gasket and equipped myself with a serviceable torque wrench to avoid the trouble in guess work. I'd marked all the plug wires and posts from hard learned lessons about removing all the plug wires at once and having to sort them out in the past so that all went back together quickly and without issue. If removed a couple things in the coolant system, water pump and "t" from pump to lower hose and intake manifold. Based on the state of the hoses and thermostat id expected to need to flush the system and maybe break loose buildup with a wire brush but most of the rest of it seemed in surprisingly good condition. The pump itself had a very minimal amount of internal rust that vanished quickly with a quick wire brush scrub. Soba couple more little parts and ill be back to needing a starter and looking for hills to park on. For that easy take off. If you can jump gracefully into the truck after a short burst of pushing and get it on the first try it almost looks cool. Who is this cool cat who shoves his ride down a hill leaping into the driver's seat to suddenly ride away on the rumble of a 4 cylinder engine that sounds much bigger die to the missing length of exhaust at the rear.... you can see it right?

[None_zero]

oh a couple things I forgot to address. O'Reilly autoparts was the place with the idiots. I didn't know quite what to think when he said they had nothing to replace it with. I asked if they didn't just have stock hose they could cut to length he said no I said and there is no other hose that is close that I could use he said no. I said huh well crap. He said id just put electrical tape around it that should get you home. I thought but did not say... are you a dumbass or am I? There is no way that flocking works.... i tried it anyway. Even went one step further and added duct tape around the electrical tape. I taped the entire length of the hose not just where the cracks had formed... it did not work turns out he was the dumbass and then it rubbed off on me.  And then datzenmike I thought you said if it clicks that means the solenoid is kicking out to activate and the motor is whats not engaging on the starter maybe I misunderstood 

[datzenmike]

44 minutes ago, None_zero said:

Ok thanks datzenmike that was incredibly thorough and helpful aside from the spring side of the thermostat comment... im a dumbass but damn mike that was cold.

 

Sometimes I get bored.

 

 

If you tape the hose be sure to run with the radiator cap loose. This way it will not build internal pressure and is less likely to leak more than it needs to.

 

The solenoid does two things it pushes the star gear out and engages the flywheel ring gear and also connects large high amperage contacts between the starter motor and the battery. If no whirring sound after the click, the contacts are not working.

[Charlie69]

The comment about the direction of the thermostat spring was not cold.  Over the years that I have bought and repaired cars and trucks (over 400) and then selling them about 50% had over heating problems and probably have of the overheating problems was the thermostat was up side down.  Made a lot of money over the years by turning thermostats over and installing a new dry installed gasket.

 

We here on Ratsun we have no idea of a poster's mechanical ability or mechanical knowledge so for some of us to help the posters we are very thorough in describing parts and procedures.

 

So don't get butt hurt!!!

Edited September 7, 2021 by Charlie69

[NC85ST]

The hose running from under the intake toward the rear of the engine is still available from Nissan. I had to replace mine at the beginning of the year. 

[None_zero]

20 hours ago, Charlie69 said:

The comment about the direction of the thermostat spring was not cold.  Over the years that I have bought and repaired cars and trucks (over 400) and then selling them about 50% had over heating problems and probably have of the overheating problems was the thermostat was up side down.  Made a lot of money over the years by turning thermostats over and installing a new dry installed gasket.

 

We here on Ratsun we have no idea of a poster's mechanical ability or mechanical knowledge so for some of us to help the posters we are very thorough in describing parts and procedures.

 

So don't get butt hurt!!!

Im just gasing him up. The day I get butt hurt on a forum is the day I pack for Alaska because people are too much. No man im just goofing around its my way. You can't take me very seriously most of the time. I get that it doesn't carry through well in text that I'm being playful sorry 

[None_zero]

Just now, None_zero said:

And in all fairness it isn't something you want to not mention to me lol most of the time I just pull things apart with the expectation that ill understand and be able to repair it and put it back together. Many times thats worked great for me. But some few times it has been a complete disaster lololol

 

[None_zero]

21 hours ago, datzenmike said:

 

Sometimes I get bored.

 

 

If you tape the hose be sure to run with the radiator cap loose. This way it will not build internal pressure and is less likely to leak more than it needs to.

 

The solenoid does two things it pushes the star gear out and engages the flywheel ring gear and also connects large high amperage contacts between the starter motor and the battery. If no whirring sound after the click, the contacts are not working.

yes thats what I'm getting click but no whirring. And damn that is a good tip on keeping the cap loose I didn't even think of reducing the pressure in the system... would I need to be concerned about most of my coolant blowing out the top with it like that and me overheating?

[None_zero]

4 hours ago, NC85ST said:

The hose running from under the intake toward the rear of the engine is still available from Nissan. I had to replace mine at the beginning of the year. 

You mean from a local dealer or on nissan website? I don't think I've ever bought anything directly from nissan odd as that is for a guy who has driven 8 different nissans over the years lol