Suspension for 1979 Datsun 210

[Lucas Grey]

Hello! I am new to this forum and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on front and rear suspension for a 1979 Datsun 210. I've done some research and it seems very costly and hard to find coilovers specific to this model car. People seem to be swapping in 280z suspension or coilovers but it looks like that will need a good amount of MacGyvering to get done. Is there any cost effective solution to this? I just bought this car and the guy I bought it from said he swapped the shocks in the rear with ones from some a Datsun pickup but I have no idea which one and he could have been flat out lying. The front has original suspension with cut springs and I would argue that they do the opposite of what suspension is supposed to do. I don't think i've ever experienced a rougher ride in a car and the front end is extremely stiff and rough. The front end becomes very floaty when I am traveling upwards of 40mph and it becomes quite dangerous to handle let alone take on the freeway. I am open to any suggestion on a solution! The car is currently very low to the ground and I am looking for something like a coil over. Not looking to make this a 'track car' just looking for suspension that will handle nice and give me a semi comfortable ride for a daily driver. 

[Draker]

Cut the lower perches off, weld lower perch in, buy coils and top hats. Camber plates if you’d like. 
 

t3 offers many of these parts. 

 

280zx spindles give you bigger front brakes. See my 1200 thread on those details. Essentially the same process, but more parts required than just building coil overs on your existing struts. Also 280zx coils and everything you need is going to be over $1k these days.

[Lucas Grey]

Thanks so much for the help! I just went down a one hour rabbit hole reading "The Pickle" and loved every second. Are you suggesting something like this for the front? https://technotoytuning.com/nissan/310/front-weld-coilover-kit-datsun-310

https://technotoytuning.com/nissan/310/weld-perches-coilovers-2-od-strut-casings

https://technotoytuning.com/nissan/310/camber-plate-upper-hat-system-datsun-310

This might be my best bet as I am running 13 inch wheels and it looks as though ill have to upgrade to 14 for 280zx struts. Is this all I will need for the front? Anything you would recommend for the rear? My 210 does not have leaf springs so I have absolutely no idea what to do when it comes to that. 

[Draker]

Yep that’s essentially what your after. I don’t know all the details when it comes to a 210, but very similar.

 

datsun1200.com has a lot of details, some which cover the 210.

 

also @Dguy210 should be a great resource. 

[Dguy210]

5 minutes ago, Draker said:

Yep that’s essentially what your after. I don’t know all the details when it comes to a 210, but very similar.

 

datsun1200.com has a lot of details, some which cover the 210.

 

also @Dguy210 should be a great resource. 

More of a 1200 or B210 guy. Been about 20 years since I owned a 210.  210 is slightly different, close but a few differences. 

 

http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=B310_Strut_Swap

http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=280ZX_Strut_Swap

 

210 is a coil spring rear axle which is actually superior to leaf springs, although the diff itself is internally basically the same as the B210. 

http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=B310_rear_axle
 

 

Checkout datsun1200.com 

[Lucas Grey]

9 hours ago, Draker said:

Yep that’s essentially what your after. I don’t know all the details when it comes to a 210, but very similar.

 

datsun1200.com has a lot of details, some which cover the 210.

 

also @Dguy210 should be a great resource. 

Thank you guys so much! That just solved so many problems. I'm just having a hard time figuring out which model I have. It sounds stupid to say but the more I think about it the more confusing it gets. On T3 I can select 210 or 310 and I am left with a dilemma. I have a 1979 Datsun 210 on the B310 chassis. Im guessing I would select 310 because the struts are different between the 210 and 310 and the coilovers for the 310 is larger. Does anyone know if I select 210 or 310?

[datzenmike]

Your 210 is a B-310.

 

210 is the name of the car like 240 Z

 

B-310 is the chassis designation as in the 240Z is an S30 chassis

 

Again your 210 IS a B-310. You can call it either but like the S30 most people will recognize the 210 name.

[Lucas Grey]

Much appreciated! Just double checking before I throw a good amount of money down on coilovers that may or may not fit my car haha. 

[datzenmike]

Do you mind doing your own work on your 210? Would you like adjustable ride height, the ability to raise or lower the front end for about $25????? No welding and only a few tools needed????

 

 

 

Coil overs are not cheap and once you get your height where you want it they are just along for the ride and doing nothing.

 

[datzenmike]

Here's what I did and the end result was a firmer ride, like new dampers (shocks) and an adjustable ride height. All this done by myself with no welding and a few tools and less than $50 Canadian.

 

Caveat:

Adjustable for up to 3" of lowering. This is limited by the real possibility of bottoming your strut out and would be applicable to coil overs as well. This must be avoided at all cost. If you want lower the strut tube must be shortened. In conjunction with lowering it is only prudent that you stiffen the spring or replace it. The 'renewing' of the damper depends on the original oil bath ones still being in the strut. If they have been stripped out and replaced with some generic dry insert then they will need replacing if they are soft.

 

 

 

Damper renewal

Remove strut and separate the spring. At this point you can remove the gland nut and see it you have the original oil filled struts with the dampers inside. If you do you can empty them out and refill with thicker motorcycle fork oil. About $15 for a liter of BellRay, enough for three struts. I used 20W which is far thicker than the original thin hydraulic oil. Thicker will require more effort to push through the internal valves and so will firm them.

 

Remove gland nut

 

Use dental pick to remove inner O ring

 

 

Empty out the old hydraulic oil...

 

 

 

Basically refill inside strut around damper tube and install O ring and gland nut. Extend and close strut 2 or 3 times upside down to expel air bubbles inside. Remove gland nut and top up oil, leaving 1/4" for expansion. Repeat the extending and compressing the damper till it moves it's full length firmly. Check oil level one last time, be sure the O ring is installed, tighten gland nut. Damper is now renewed and noticeably firmer to operate.

 

If a previous owner has replaced these with dry inserts then you have no choice but to buy new ones.

 

[datzenmike]

Adjustable ride height

Using a hack saw or 6" angle grinder trim carefully, and not too deep, around the lower spring perch just above the weld, and slide it off.

 

 

 

Grind away the weld so the strut tube is smooth.

 

 

 

Assemble spring, bottom perch and support the underside of the perch with a 2" split collar...

 

 

 

Tightened they each will hold a weight of 5,000 pounds or two 210 each!

 

Put top hats on and install strut. I used a hydraulic jack to push up on the under side of the spring perch to compress the spring. Then tighten the split collars. Lower carefully and check your ride height. Adjust as needed keeping both sides equal so one isn't doing more work that the other holding the car up. Once the ride height is where you like it you are finished and the split collars cost about $20 US instead of $600+ for coil overs. You could buy some nice tires for that.

[datzenmike]

Stiffer springs

 

When a coil spring is shortened it becomes stiffer. If your springs were cut in an attempt to lower the car it can easily be too much and the spring rate too high for good comfort. The renewed dampers can  really help a stiff ride by smoothing out the rebound. If you make some careful and accurate as possible measurements of you current coil spring I can work out your spring rate. Generally somewhere between 175 and 225 pounds per inch seem the norm for Datsun owners but everyone is different. It would help to know where your's are before buying new ones that are perhaps too soft.

 

I need the following...

Thickness of the wire

Diameter of coil, outside to outside is fine

Number of free coils not touching each other. These are coils free to compress. Include the fraction of a coil left as close as possible.

 

The more accurate, the better the resulting spring rate number.

 

 

My 710 was around 100 lb/in. I calculated a 50% increase to 150 lb/in and trimmed the coil. Good results, I liked the ride. Keep in mind, once cut, if too stiff you can't go back.

[Lucas Grey]

That is one of the most in depth step by step answers i've ever received! I'll try to get the measurements today and get back to you! I'm not really looking for ride height adjustability just something that keeps the look of the car and feels nice on the road. 

[Jesse C.]

Damn, answered as I wrote it! 

 

I was asking for a pic of the car

 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Jesse C.

[Lucas Grey]

Just now, Jesse C. said:

 

Why don't you just post a pic of the car and let the people giving you advice know exactly what it is. 

 

 

pic is above! 🙂

[datzenmike]

Damn that's nice!!!

 

 

If it rides too stiff and you select a softer spring it might settle lower and depending on the new coil length it might actually sit higher. If it sits lower than you want you could compress the spring and add rubber ring spacers to lift it to where you want.

 

If the rate is around 200 I would just live with it and try to get used to it. Lowering has to involve some amount of increased stiffness to avoid bottoming on bumps. RR tracks etc.

[Lucas Grey]

11 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

Damn that's nice!!!

 

 

If it rides too stiff and you select a softer spring it might settle lower and depending on the new coil length it might actually sit higher. If it sits lower than you want you could compress the spring and add rubber ring spacers to lift it to where you want.

 

If the rare is around 200 I would just live with it and try to get used to it. Lowering has to involve some amount of increased stiffness to avoid bottoming on bumps. RR tracks etc.

Makes sense. Let me get you the measurements and I can go from there. The springs themselves are not in good shape at all and there was obviously some sort of wack job done to them. 

[datzenmike]

Perhaps a picture of one of them???? While the wheel is off. Caliper and rotor too if you can.

[Dguy210]

3 hours ago, Lucas Grey said:

Much appreciated! Just double checking before I throw a good amount of money down on coilovers that may or may not fit my car haha. 

 

It is the 50mm strut tube so springs aside (which you can buy separately) that is an extremely common size for coilovers. I think I picked up a cheap set for like a Miata or something and just got some decent Eibach springs separately.  Mike's tutorial is very good. 

 

Coilovers are really for adjustability, but it is a relatively easy way to get it set to what you like. Generally, for these cars taking a coil or two off stock is a good compromise without going too extreme (note: based on my opinion only!).

 

If you can find them the 280ZX strut upgrade (pricey these days) is a really nice and pretty easy upgrade.  Mike wasn't there a Maxima or something that used effectively similar struts just a tiny bit smaller disc for spec purposes than the 280zx? I seem to remember you posting about it at some point.

[datzenmike]

I think I cut 1 3/4 coil off but the thickness, diameter and number of coils that need to be taken into account before cutting.

 

The 280zx strut is over an inch shorter than one from a 510 so automatically that much lower. I don't know if this helps bet measuring down inside where the damper goes it's 376mm.

 

The greater advantage of the zx struts are the massive calipers and pads and the huge vented rotor. I have a set of '84 Maxima struts. The caliper is huge and the vented rotor is like a mm or two smaller diameter. Remember when the 'new' Camaro was to come out and there was talk about it having the same engine as the 'new' Corvette???? GM said...... no. There's no way it's going to have a 'Corvette' engine so they changed the cam or the emissions and knocked 30 hp off. The Corvette is the flagship car for GM cars and didn't want new owners pissed that the Camaro was the same. Same with Maxima. It was the only other inline six with IRS and they didn't want it to compare with the 280zx. Probably you will need 14" rims to clear them.

 

Here's mine. Basically (dare I say) the same as the 280zx but less desirable and likely a lot cheaper also.

 

Here's a set of '81 280zx struts I grabbed. Someone replaced the pads and rotors, drove it briefly and then something broke on the car and it was parked till scrapped.

 

 

Pads are impressive. Some when I'll see if the zx calipers and pads will fit the Maxima rotors.

 

[Lucas Grey]

3 hours ago, datzenmike said:

Perhaps a picture of one of them???? While the wheel is off. Caliper and rotor too if you can.

My car is at the shop right now getting an engine and undercarriage steam clean. Im hoping to not go the 280zx strut route just because it will invole new brakes, rotors, pads, etc right? T3 seems to have a good coil over weld on kit for $265 and it includes all of the parts I will need to do the job. Is it worth doing this or should I go with Mikes tutorial? Ill try to get photos soon but my only problem is that I live on a steep hill which prevents me from safely jacking up my car.

https://technotoytuning.com/nissan/310/front-weld-coilover-kit-datsun-310

[datzenmike]

Got a welder???

 

  

[Lucas Grey]

1 minute ago, datzenmike said:

Got a welder???

 

  

I personally am not that skilled but my neighbor is a professional welder who offered to help me with this project.

[bananahamuck]

Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet but,, If you are running 13” wheels and want to keep them you better measure ZX struts/calipers.. most 13” wheels don’t fit ZX calipers .
 

If your braking is good enough I would just put collars on stock struts.  

 

also it HAS TO be ZX.  Older Z calipers are huge compared to ZX 

 

,, collars seem weird but I can guarantee they will hold , even if you beat your car . 

[Lucas Grey]

21 hours ago, bananahamuck said:

Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet but,, If you are running 13” wheels and want to keep them you better measure ZX struts/calipers.. most 13” wheels don’t fit ZX calipers .
 

If your braking is good enough I would just put collars on stock struts.  

 

also it HAS TO be ZX.  Older Z calipers are huge compared to ZX 

 

,, collars seem weird but I can guarantee they will hold , even if you beat your car . 

Good to know! Considering just getting the T3 coilovers and welding them on. Does anyone know if I can just stiffen up the back shocks just using motorcycle oil? They seem relatively new and I just want them to be raised up a bit just because of how low it is in the rear.