Mike Phillips Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) Saturn Alternator Install - Miscellaneous Prep Pictures Took some shots during the project thought they might help someone else... they're all hosted on my personal website so as long as I'm paying my hosting bill they'll show up. :) I'm a big fan of the below philosophy... "Each one teach one" Kind of taking what you know or learn and passing it on. There's an old saying that goes like this, "Try to learn from other's mistakes you might not live long enough to make them all on your own" That said, here we go... First, when I went to remove the stock alternator top adjustment bracket the bolt holding it in place hit the water pump pulley. I could either remove the radiator and then loosen the fan blade/fan clutch or use a Dremmel to grind away just enough material from the pulley to allow the bolt to slide out, I chose the latter and when I replace the radiator, (upcoming future project in the next week or so). The lower front bolt for the lower mounting bracket is a 14mm bolt which means you need to drill out the front lower mounting hole on the Saturn Alternator. The Saturn Alternator has a shim in the rear that is too long for use with the Datsun lower mounting bracket but you need the shim so that you have a snug fit for the rear bolt. I used a 5/16" about an inch and a quarter long with a nylon lock nut. Next... I ran into a problem that didn't seem to be a problem in this picture from another person's install. Note the turnbuckle location and apparently this is working for this situation. (Not my picture or my install) When I tried to duplicate the above using the smallest turnbuckle at Lowe's, (3 inch), the turnbuckle was too close to the water fitting so it couldn't be adjusted, that is I couldn't turn the turnbuckle as it hit the fitting. So instead I took the original/stock top Alternator bracket and cut it right where the slot is for adjusting. Then took and drilled a 3/8" hole in the end where I made the cut for a 3/8" bolt. Then I bolted the bracket to the top bolt hole on the alternator where in the first picture the other member bolted the turnbuckle. I positioned the bracket to so that it was pointed away from the engine and tightened it down with a Grade 8 3/8" bolt with a Nylon Lock Nut as this needs to be very tight so it doesn't move. Then I installed the 5 1/4" turnbuckle to the engine and then to the other end of the bracket where I just drilled the hole. Hope that makes sense, if not then I hope these pictures clarify. Cropped out close-up from the above picture. From a different angle (If you look you can see the original blue paint on the original bracket) Next up... you need to remove and cut the rear lower mount shim. :) Edited December 1, 2008 by Mike Phillips 1 Quote Link to comment
Mike Phillips Posted December 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) Continued... The lower mounting bracket needs a little grinding to provide enough clearance to allow the Saturn Alternator to swivel or rotate as it's a few ticks larger than the stock Hitachi unit. Before I ground the mount there wasn't enough clearance here. The alternator on the left is the stock Hitachi unit and the alternator on the right is the NAPA rebuilt Saturn Unit. They are positioned as they would be mounted in the engine compartment to show you the difference in the location of the adjustment mount. This is where the major difficulty lies as you can see the adjustment mount for the Saturn unit is placed so it would be very close to the block. If you grind the mount enough you can create quite of bit of rotation distance as shown by the two pictures below. Note the lower mounting bracket is positioned as it would be if it were bolted to the engine block and in the top picture the alternator is as close to the block as the mount will allow and in the lower picture the alternator is rotated to it's maximum distance away from the block as the mount will allow, (after grinding the mount). Here's a shot looking up from the bottom. Here's a shot from the passenger inner fender looking at the alternator. Note the rear bolt is inserted with the head of the bolt inside the mount and the threads exiting out the rear. If you rotate the alternator as far away from the engine as possible it is limited by the nut holding the Idler Arm to the frame bracket. Make sure you've made your peace with God before grinding the top portion of the nut that holds the Idler Arm to the frame. Daphnie did this while I was working on something else... bad dog! If you take this project on, here's the turnbuckle I used for my install. It's about $3.00 at Lowe's If you can get the more angled water inlet it will make everything easier. At this time I'm still using the water inlet that came stock with the truck and it's a tight fit for the entire project but at the time of this post it is working. I might have to edit this post or post an update when I start the engine and test everything. In the picture below, it's a very tight fit between the bottom of the radiator hose and the protective plastic cover on the Saturn Alternator. It's only possibly by making as much adjustment room as possible by grinding in the appropriate places. Test and check fit everything and if possible, get the correct water inlet as this will make everything easier. Finished :) Edited December 1, 2008 by Mike Phillips Quote Link to comment
Mike Phillips Posted December 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) Due credit to where it's due... I couldn't have done this without the help of Daphnie, The Dark Overlord and Destroyer of Planets. She took a break from her work in another Galaxy to give me a hand... :) Edited December 1, 2008 by Mike Phillips 1 Quote Link to comment
Pacific coast Datsun Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Mike thank you for the pix & writeup. This is what keeps this site going..people helping others out. Looks like a fairly easy swap. Even the wiring is basic. Quote Link to comment
slodat Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 You can remove that plastic cover off the alternator for clearance if it will help you. Quote Link to comment
slodat Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Here are some shots of the Saturn alternator install on my 510. Quote Link to comment
ariascarlos1990 Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Good writeup. lots of help here. now you need to put the wiring up like (this goes to this) :D Quote Link to comment
slodat Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 How to wire the Saturn alternator: There are four terminals in the four pin connector on the CS series alternator: P - half wave rectified. Don't use the P terminal. L - light and will go to your lamp circuit on the dash. Connect the L terminal to your white black on the bottom of the T connector(the one that previously went into the stock alternator) on your harness. F - field positive. Don't use the F terminal. S - sense. Connect the S to your yellow wire on the top of the T connector on your harness. BAT - this is the +12v output of the alternator. Connect it to the heavy gauge white wire to charge the battery. Ground If you don't have a black harness ground connector, make one and connect it from the alternator case to any black ground wire in your wiring harness. Do yourself a favor and also connect a super heavy battery cable from your engine block to your frame. I use a 12" battery wire from a starter mounting bolt to a idler arm mounting bolt on my 510. This can help with some of your problems blowing out alternators. If you happen to get an alternator with an "F" terminal on its regulator plug, AND if you don't need an idiot light, you may apply 12V directly to the F terminal with key-on, and this will excite the alternator safely. Applying 12V (not through a bulb) to the L terminal will smoke the regulator!! Some of the above taken from the bluebirds list. Quote Link to comment
ariascarlos1990 Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Very nice and organized list. Thanks Quote Link to comment
Phlebmaster Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Nice how to thread. :) Quote Link to comment
Mike Phillips Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Just to note, I'm still planning on creating a concise how-to article out of this thread and the other thread on this topic, it's just the Christmas and New Year's holidays have been taking up a lot of my time. So far the Saturn Alternator is working out great, the headlights are bright, the batter is staying charged and the stereos a booming! (The Dark Overlord is getting bigger too!) :) Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I thought Lucus Electric was the Prince of Darkness Quote Link to comment
ariascarlos1990 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think I need to wire my plug like the picture though. my lights dim when my engine idle low or I need a smaller pully. Quote Link to comment
Phlebmaster Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Slodat, Could you take a clearer picture of the wiring from the rear of the alt? I can almost see it all, but not quite. I will be puting in a 65 amp alt very soon and want to make sure I am jumping the wire correctly. Thanks :) Quote Link to comment
slodat Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Not trying to be rude, sincerely. This has been covered so many times on here it is silly. I posted the details on every terminal of the delco CS alternators a few posts up in this thread. There is nothing listed above that would be better described with a photo. Quote Link to comment
Phlebmaster Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Not trying to be rude, sincerely. This has been covered so many times on here it is silly. I posted the details on every terminal of the delco CS alternators a few posts up in this thread. There is nothing listed above that would be better described with a photo. I have read many of the threads and was just wanting a clearer pic of that particular area. Thanks anyway, I guess you are right, there is enough info here and in about 50 other threads. I will take one when I do my own. :D Quote Link to comment
510er Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 (edited) might be a silly question but... What saturn does this alternator come out of and how many amps does it put out? is the pully the same as the stock unit? did you need a longer belt? thanks! wiring seems simple enough EDIT: also is Has anyone experienced wiring fires or anything crazy with jumping from the stock 30 or 40 amps to 80 amps? what are some remedies to this? Edited January 13, 2009 by 510er Quote Link to comment
]2eDeYe Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 might be a silly question but... What saturn does this alternator come out of and how many amps does it put out? Early Saturns, the ones that all look the same. 90 amps usually. is the pully the same as the stock unit? No, You need a V-groove pulley. I don't think the datto ones will work if that is the question.... did you need a longer belt? Yes at least a different belt, it might be shorter. thanks! wiring seems simple enough EDIT: also is Has anyone experienced wiring fires or anything crazy with jumping from the stock 30 or 40 amps to 80 amps? what are some remedies to this? Not an issue, but relays for large draw items will help any electrical system These questions have all been answered countless times ;) Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I asked Mike Phillips to write basic one page "How to" in the simplest form and try to condense this down with basic parts# he said he has been busy and will get to it so we can make it a sticky. Cause there is some inconsisitancsies.I seen the one On the realm and that one I thought wasnt as good with his drawing. Need to make totally idiot proof!!!!!!! I see 2 types of lower water inlets used. on this and some have the v belt puley some dont. Quote Link to comment
slodat Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 They all require the use of a v-belt pulley. I think this falls in to the category of "if it's too hard for you, don't do it." This is a dirt easy setup, in my opinion. I have answered countless questions on this. I'm not sure how to make it any easier than Mike did with the photos above. Quote Link to comment
510er Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 not to be an ass hole but i agree that it can be easier than what is above, all that needs to be added 1.with a specific year group of saturns to look towards for an alternator 2 Where you would find a V groove pulley, because if im not mistaken it would be best to use the same diameter pulley that comes with the alternator to keep the RPM's the same 3 you need a different belt. such as a v grove belt but what have people used for lengths? The reason i pose these questions is because im sure there are others like me, I for instance am going to stop at a parts store and a hardware store on my way home and dont really live "near" either of these so The less trips i can make the easier, also When i pull all this apart to do the upgrade if i dont get it finished i dont have a car the next day until its done none the less go get more parts. SO in summary Im going to attempt to buy all the parts + some to get this all dont tonight in one fell swoop, if it doesn't work im Thumbin it to the parts store. Quote Link to comment
slodat Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 (edited) not to be an ass hole but i agree that it can be easier than what is above, all that needs to be added 1.with a specific year group of saturns to look towards for an alternator 2 Where you would find a V groove pulley, because if im not mistaken it would be best to use the same diameter pulley that comes with the alternator to keep the RPM's the same 3 you need a different belt. such as a v grove belt but what have people used for lengths? The reason i pose these questions is because im sure there are others like me, I for instance am going to stop at a parts store and a hardware store on my way home and dont really live "near" either of these so The less trips i can make the easier, also When i pull all this apart to do the upgrade if i dont get it finished i dont have a car the next day until its done none the less go get more parts. SO in summary Im going to attempt to buy all the parts + some to get this all dont tonight in one fell swoop, if it doesn't work im Thumbin it to the parts store. This stuff is in so damn many threads already. I'll do a comprehensive write-up next time I'm home. 1. First gen Saturns 90-96 will all work. ANY model. 2. You need a v-belt pulley. The saturns had a serpentine style belt. That pulley won't work. I have used one off of a GM 10si or 12si. These are ALL GM alternators between 72 or so and 83 or so. There are millions of them in yards. Some stock Hitachi alternators have a two piece pulley. I've never used one of those. I have used a one piece pulley from a stock Hitachi. 3. There are way too many variables to tell you which belt to use. Variables - lower alternator mount, pulley choice, adjuster length, which water pump pulley you have, etc. There are no less than 3 threads that have the info on this swap on here. It is pretty basic stuff. In my opinion, you WILL have to make a run to the parts store. That's just how things like this go. Thread with a good bit of belt info. Another thread with plenty of relevant info. A guy that put the saturn alternator on his J13. Edited January 13, 2009 by slodat added a couple thread links Quote Link to comment
510er Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Okay check another saturn swap off the list i just finished it earlier. No pics as of yet, way to greasy to touch a camera earlier. Wanted to put out there that The guy i know at napa (not you matt) let me rummage through there box of misc. alternater pulleys fans spacers and what not and take what i wanted for a buck a piece, AND ITS NEW! so no junk yard digs for me :( This is alot easier than I thought it was going to be. THe wiring seem like a daunting task but its simple as people put it power wire!- thick one Ground wire- duh black one energize/12volts from ingnition - other wire thats haningin there Quote Link to comment
banzai510(hainz) Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 still like to see a drawing like this http://datsun510.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=124&size=big&papass=&sort=1 Quote Link to comment
slodat Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I don't have any software to make that kind of drawing hainz. Quote Link to comment
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