destruction of america

[paradime]

54 minutes ago, a.d._510_n_ok said:

Lol. I haven't watched Fox since before O'Reilly crashed and burned. Most libertarians gave up before then but I'd enjoyed Bill's feigned outrage since his trash TV days in the early 90s. Inside Edition? A Current Affair? IDK. One of those. Are we going to have to go full Kruschev/JFK here and revisit how NATO putting missiles in Turkey led to the Soviets retaliating by shipping Cuba the commie version of the same? Oh my God! The Russians want war! Look how close their country is to our military bases! NATO's hands aren't clean in this! They've been poking the bear at least since the second dubya term! If Biden hadn't buck broken the US military the US would happily declare war and put boots on the ground over there! Ignoring all that after 20+ years of the US engaging in so many global misadventures we absolutely have no right to wag a finger at Putin and call him an aggressor! Pot, have you met kettle!?! 

 

Before you LOL to much, dId you happen to notice at the top left of the vid you posted? It was Fox News who put out the story and this guy is regurgitating it. Now ask yourself, why you're believing Putin's propaganda over the 75 other countries supporting Ukraine. Oh silly paradime, Trump has omnipotent powers of wisdom and knowledge to controls EVERYTHING!!!!! Except controlling his own ignorance and stupidity. 

Edited Wednesday at 08:22 PM by paradime
paradise? F'n auto correct.

[tr8er]

57 minutes ago, a.d._510_n_ok said:

Lol. I haven't watched Fox since before O'Reilly crashed and burned. Most libertarians gave up before then but I'd enjoyed Bill's feigned outrage since his trash TV days in the early 90s. Inside Edition? A Current Affair? IDK. One of those. Are we going to have to go full Kruschev/JFK here and revisit how NATO putting missiles in Turkey led to the Soviets retaliating by shipping Cuba the commie version of the same? Oh my God! The Russians want war! Look how close their country is to our military bases! NATO's hands aren't clean in this! They've been poking the bear at least since the second dubya term! If Biden hadn't buck broken the US military the US would happily declare war and put boots on the ground over there! Ignoring all that after 20+ years of the US engaging in so many global misadventures we absolutely have no right to wag a finger at Putin and call him an aggressor! Pot, have you met kettle!?! 

We absolutely do.  We would be remiss to not engage in the interests of NATO.  Defensively and offensively.  And when we have another act out against us, we have every interest in responding.  If you fucked a chick and his son got all fucking pissed that you fucked his mom, would you stand down as he went to fuck your mom?  Well, I guess fair is fair….  Fuck that.  We should be better, and we shouldn’t. take. shit.  Now, NATOs bear poking is not akin to disrespecting a globally recognized pact.  Not at all.  As well, comparing NATO to one country is not logical.  Russia has defined boundaries and when it expands those boundaries it is directly fucking over the country it is taking from.  NATO expansion is voted on and agreed to by both parties.  Ask Georgia how it goes when Russia decides they want some of your country.  Now they want Crimea and the whole of the Black Sea?   And they convince you it is because NATO?   And only after falling flat on the Nazi claim they started with.  And what did they claim was their reason to annex crimea?   

[jbirds510]

2 hours ago, tr8er said:

You can be the father, the Uncle Sam, the schoolyard teacher.  You can be whomever you want in this analogy as long as you don’t stand like some beta deadbeat.  Your Nation was not only an author, but also one of three signatory to the Budapest memorandum.  

 

The memoranda, signed in Patria Hall at the Budapest Convention Center with US Ambassador Donald M. Blinken amongst others in attendance,^[3] prohibited Russia, the United States and the United Kingdom from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.^[4][5]

 

We aren’t just over in someone else’s house stirring up shit.  We signed a deal which Russia has blatantly dishonored.  We have good reason to defend our agreement.  And even if we weren’t beholden to our honor.  We still have good interest in keeping the lines where they were.  And good interest in keeping Putin checked.  He is only there because his ability to influence the elections there have been diminished.  He lost control of Ukraine which he had in full at one point.  We assured their independence a mere 30 years ago.  And you think we should ignore that because the threat is scary.  That’s some bitch shit.  Honor our agreements.  Use our financial might.  Use our intelligence.  Slap his fucking mouth open and shove the memoranda so deep in there he chokes on it.

 

Meh

Edited Wednesday at 09:10 PM by jbirds510

[datzenmike]

But it would be OK to fund a war on your own soil????? This problem with Putin is easier to solve over there than later over here.

[paradime]

12 minutes ago, tr8er said:

We absolutely do.  We would be remiss to not engage in the interests of NATO.  Defensively and offensively.  And when we have another act out against us, we have every interest in responding.  If you fucked a chick and his son got all fucking pissed that you fucked his mom, would you stand down as he went to fuck your mom?  Well, I guess fair is fair….  Fuck that.  We should be better, and we shouldn’t. take. shit.  Now, NATOs bear poking is not akin to disrespecting a globally recognized pact.  Not at all.  As well, comparing NATO to one country is not logical.  Russia has defined boundaries and when it expands those boundaries it is directly fucking over the country it is taking from.  NATO expansion is voted on and agreed to by both parties.  Ask Georgia how it goes when Russia decides they want some of your country.  Now they want Crimea and the whole of the Black Sea?   And they convince you it is because NATO?   And only after falling flat on the Nazi claim they started with.  And what did they claim was their reason to annex crimea?   

 

Not sure about the Chicken fucking thing, but I agree with everything else.

[tr8er]

13 minutes ago, jbirds510 said:

Makes sense, however still doesn’t answer the big question. How is it OUR problem. By our mean the tax payers of the United States? I don’t pay taxes to fund war on foreign soil. I’m not pro Rush uh or you crane. Dgaf. No one asked me if I wanted to finance a war or take sides in a conflict where both sides are corrupt AF. It’s bad enough I’m extorted out of my pay to fund our own disgusting government. As far as I’m concerned they need to start a go fund me. The whole thing stinks like shit. 

And that also makes sense.  Unfortunately for you, the decisions were made at an earlier time with different information and life experiences for future generations to honor.  Similar to the constitution.  We have the power to revise agreements honorably, uphold agreements honorably, or ignore them dishonorably.  
 

the information they had and acted upon was the nature of this aggression and the larger conflict we avoid in keeping Moskow ambitions at bay.  The younger folks myopic principled view misses the likelihoods of global conflict if Putins empire expands.  Not that you are young, I’ve got no idea.  But that’s where I was when I was younger.  

[jbirds510]

I’m tired of this conversation, it brings out my nasty and fucks up my day. 

Edited Wednesday at 09:20 PM by jbirds510

[datzenmike]

It's just opinions counter to your own. It takes a while to get used to hearing them, just don't be like John is all.

 

[jbirds510]

12 minutes ago, datzenmike said:

It's just opinions counter to your own. It takes a while to get used to hearing them, just don't be like John is all.

 

I just wish I hadn’t wandered back to this thread. It’s too toxic for me. 

[paradime]

I can get behind distrust in our government, but I'm not going to side with Putin agains it. If you think that's unpatriotic, maybe you don't belong here? Go  ahead and move to Russia so you can fight for him. 

[john510]

24 minutes ago, paradime said:

I can get behind distrust in our government, but I'm not going to side with Putin agains it. If you think that's unpatriotic, maybe you don't belong here? Go  ahead and move to Russia so you can fight for him. 

Who's siding with Putin ? 

[paradime]

40 minutes ago, jbirds510 said:

I just wish I hadn’t wandered back to this thread. It’s too toxic for me. 

And here I thought sharing what informs a differing opinion is the woke definition of toxic. I need to do some lingo catch up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:59 PM by paradime

[paradime]

4 minutes ago, john510 said:

Who's siding with Putin ? 

Trump.

[john510]

7 minutes ago, paradime said:

Trump.

Of course you would hear it that way. Is he really siding with Putin or is it just because Trump knows Zelensky is a crooked con man himself and he doesn't like him ? I've never heard Trump say he supported Putin's invasion. I have heard him say he understands why. Shit if Trump supports Putin why didn't Putin invade right after Trump's inauguration ? This war would be over with already and we could quit pissing money away to a country no better than Russia. I don't care for either of the two, let them figure it out. 

[paradime]

10 minutes ago, john510 said:

Of course you would hear it that way. Is he really siding with Putin or is it just because Trump knows Zelensky is a crooked con man himself and he doesn't like him ? I've never heard Trump say he supported Putin's invasion. I have heard him say he understands why. Shit if Trump supports Putin why didn't Putin invade right after Trump's inauguration ? This war would be over with already and we could quit pissing money away to a country no better than Russia. I don't care for either of the two, let them figure it out. 

Come on John, of course you would hear it that way.

 

 

[a.d._510_n_ok]

2 hours ago, tr8er said:

We absolutely do.  We would be remiss to not engage in the interests of NATO.  Defensively and offensively.  And when we have another act out against us, we have every interest in responding.  If you fucked a chick and his son got all fucking pissed that you fucked his mom, would you stand down as he went to fuck your mom?  Well, I guess fair is fair….  Fuck that.  We should be better, and we shouldn’t. take. shit.  Now, NATOs bear poking is not akin to disrespecting a globally recognized pact.  Not at all.  As well, comparing NATO to one country is not logical.  Russia has defined boundaries and when it expands those boundaries it is directly fucking over the country it is taking from.  NATO expansion is voted on and agreed to by both parties.  Ask Georgia how it goes when Russia decides they want some of your country.  Now they want Crimea and the whole of the Black Sea?   And they convince you it is because NATO?   And only after falling flat on the Nazi claim they started with.  And what did they claim was their reason to annex crimea?   

NATO is such a joke that NATO member nations either don't pay any of their dues or under pay them. Remember Trump calling them out for being deadbeats to their faces!?! Also, remember Trump chastising these same NATO states for financing the Russian military by choosing Putin's gas over USA gas? Naw, fuck the neo con war machine that says Putin is a threat to world peace. Not buying it.

[jbirds510]

1 hour ago, paradime said:

And here I thought

[tr8er]

10 minutes ago, a.d._510_n_ok said:

NATO is such a joke that NATO member nations either don't pay any of their dues or under pay them. Remember Trump calling them out for being deadbeats to their faces!?! Also, remember Trump chastising these same NATO states for financing the Russian military by choosing Putin's gas over USA gas? Naw, fuck the neo con war machine that says Putin is a threat to world peace. Not buying it.

Yeah.  I certainly do remember Trump trying his best to kill NATO as a preface for Putins invasion.  And I remember Congress passing legislation preventing a president from making that decision to prevent Trump from doing exactly that.  You really think he would raise a stink about an international alliance because other states aren’t paying their share?  That is what you should recognize as his justification.  Not reason.   

[john510]

1 hour ago, paradime said:

Come on John, of course you would hear it that way.

 

 

You said it. 

Edited Wednesday at 11:37 PM by john510

[datzenmike]

It's really terrible when someone's opinion is different isn't it. Some call it toxic and others like John, put you on ignore.

[a.d._510_n_ok]

1 hour ago, tr8er said:

Yeah.  I certainly do remember Trump trying his best to kill NATO as a preface for Putins invasion.  And I remember Congress passing legislation preventing a president from making that decision to prevent Trump from doing exactly that.  You really think he would raise a stink about an international alliance because other states aren’t paying their share?  That is what you should recognize as his justification.  Not reason.   

Are you saying Trump wanted Putin to invade Europe and tried to undermine the viability of NATO to make that happen?

[john510]

6 minutes ago, a.d._510_n_ok said:

Are you saying Trump wanted Putin to invade Europe and tried to undermine the viability of NATO to make that happen?

He needs to fact check himself before posting. Trump never tried to kill off NATO. Where he comes up with this stuff is beyond me. He did hold NATO accountable for everybody involved to pay their fair share. Something Presidents before him should have done. It worked, they ponied up.

[datzenmike]

 

 

 

2 hours ago, a.d._510_n_ok said:

NATO is such a joke that NATO member nations either don't pay any of their dues or under pay them. Remember Trump calling them out for being deadbeats to their faces!?! Also, remember Trump chastising these same NATO states for financing the Russian military by choosing Putin's gas over USA gas? Naw, fuck the neo con war machine that says Putin is a threat to world peace. Not buying it.

 

Christ it served to stir up resentment, animosity and resentment, it's what Trump is so good at. He's got a soft spot for Putin who is actually playing him. He's Putin's lap dog.

 

Russian gas was cheap and readily available and when it's cold and dark fuck ideology.  

[tr8er]

1 hour ago, a.d._510_n_ok said:

Are you saying Trump wanted Putin to invade Europe and tried to undermine the viability of NATO to make that happen?

There’s a speck of trolling with that one I’ll admit.  But I do see Putins influence in much of Trumps actions in office.  Weather it is fed to him from his cabinet or not, his actions often were benefitting Putins interests.  But since most in here think it’s bat shit crazy to think Trump is helping Russia I said that in jest.  

[paradime]

3 hours ago, jbirds510 said:

Indeed, let's keep laughing around here.