Defeating CA SMOG, do's, don'ts, ways and means

[NeverFinished]

CA Emissions laws: It is completely true that I want to avoid SMOG inspections which are costly, time consuming, might require obscure repairs of items that don't particularly matter, don't allow custom piping or mixing of components from different years, etc.  I'm sure some of (or all of) you know how your late 70's car can fail because some untraceable vacuum hose isn't right, or some solenoid (who's technology has completely been replaced) doesn't work.  My old 240Z stayed currently registered for all the years I had it, though it hardly saw blacktop.  I wouldn't want to have to use exactly stock emissions technology (and CARB approved parts) from 1973 in particular, when it would run cleaner with just a few items that are much more modern with custom parts, and parts adapted from other vehicles.  Some emissions technology really help with pollution, and I'm all for installing them even on cars that never had them:

* Catalytic Converter: smog laws require the right model.  What's wrong with running a custom 2.5" or 3" exhaust system with a modern high flow two part, 3-way cat system, and an aftermarket ECU that runs as described in the referenced article?  According to the following reference, the cat reduced 98% of the harmful fumes from a vehicle... 98%!  So an old late-70's car must have all kinds of crap installed, yet maintain an early design 2-way cat designed for the car (and if original, probably barely working).  Change the law to demand that each car puts out emission to below a particular threshold, and let us build our cars how we want them; eliminating a huge bureaucracy and CARB approval for parts.  I'll bet two part, three stage cats (and aftermarket computers that use both O2 sensors) would pop up on eBay for cheap, and at racing shops as standard equipment.  I noticed for a particular car, the non-CA cat cost just ~$50, and the CA approved one cost >$200.  And as everyone knows, we aren't allowed to mess with the exhaust from the cat forward, so old cars are left to barely pass their emissions when they could be modified to run extremely clean, even with a failing engine and blown valves.  I know a lady who's modern car that consumes massive oil, yet it passes smog because the cat/ECU system burns it all off.

http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Chemistry/Kinetics/Case_Studies/Catalytic_Converters  (slow server, you may have to repeat your request)

* Pulse Air Injection: a later model design smog pump that only pumps fresh air into the exhaust when given a signal.  Even these have been rendered obsolete by 3-way cats and an ECU program that warms up the cat(s) and makes them work more efficiently.

* EGR: honestly this is counter-intuitive.  Supposedly it keeps the intake air cool (pumping hot dirty air makes it cool? I'm confused) but if it is so great, why do JDM engines not bother with it?  So if it is already on the equipment I install, I wouldn't go out of my way to remove it, or vice-versa.

* PCV: ventilation of some sort is very important for the crankcase, but I'd prefer to have a catch-can inline and/or route it with an aftermarket large inline filter to a point I choose in the intake.

* EFI with closed loop running, using O2 sensor to adjust the engine - important for performance, but some (early) smog equipment fowls the system so it doesn't run closed loop.  At least have the aftermarket computer use the O2 sensor as part of it's program.

* the Medusa of vacuum lines  found in early smog equipment: I want to strip it completely.  Use the aforementioned methods to make a really clean car, and per UC Davis: 98% is done by the catalytic converter system?  Nobody is failing by just 2%.

* Maybe add all the stuff they expect to see, but not actually have it working.

 

I don't make the law, but it seems to me that if a any car passes tailpipe at idle, 2K, and 4K, and the EVAP test; how you got there should be up to the owner for all engines.  But since I don't make or like the law, I want to circumvent it.  Can I get away with it?  Almost always. But I do hate that word almost.  Since I'm in a rural area, and I don't drive many miles per year, I'm more inclined to get away with it than someone who drives regularly through a smoggy city where the officers are told to crack down on car violations.

 

The purpose is so anybody can voice their opinion on the various attributes of this subject.

[NeverFinished]

I'd like to use a late model engine, stripped of all it's expected equipment (using means to keep it clean as mentioned) and if nobody inspects it, I'd get away with that in a 1975 or older car.  I'd also like to prep a single body for two engines - one on steroids and the other would serve as a backup, be used for classic car shows, inspection if ordered, and maybe really good gas mileage for long highway trips.  Practical choices would be made, like using the same bell housing and custom exhaust, and the second engine would probably be carbureted unless the aftermarket computer had multiple programs. Note I didn't mention any models.

I'd like an SR20DET, CA18DET, RB26DETT, even 2007+ revision QR25DE Frontier RWD engine if the body I choose is light enough.  As I learn, I'm considering other choices.  For instance: a 510 or other small body that came with an L-series 4-banger.  Build one legal engine L16 or L18 that can drive cross country trips without breaking down, pass visual & emissions, even get good gas mileage, and put it in storage.  Build a L20B Frankenstein with Z-series block (complex topic discussed elsewhere, with many choices, so no need to get specific here), that except perhaps an aftermarket turbo kit has the appearance of a L18 with all the expected emissions equipment (so maybe the body needs to be particularly old?)
 

Here's an article on making your classic engine pass most visual inspections:

http://ericpetersautos.com/2011/06/13/classic-cars-and-the-smog-police/

[mrbigtanker]

So what are you really asking?It seems you got all the answers right there or are letting people know what you found,sorry just to long for me to read ,and no boobies to look at.lol

[NeverFinished]

Hmmm, must I add boobies?

 

DatzenMike had some really good points, as well as some other people (sorry, I should go back and list all your names), as I started out months ago intending to build a "pre-smog" CA car.  I'm told there is no such thing.  It's true that I combined all the information I learned from different sources, but am no expert.  There may be loop-holes, suggestions, experiences having maybe a Frankenstein L20B pass visual with a CHP officer because the block was painted the right color and certain hoses were attached, and there was no way he could recognize obscure details.  I don't know.  The information I described did not all come from me, and some of it may be wrong or obsolete.  I'd love to hear how someone figured out how to get an SR20DET nice and legal in a pre-smog car, or some combination like that.

 

Then there's the idea (correction, pie in the sky dream) of getting CA to pass a law that says if it runs really clean past a certain age, we don't care how you do it.  Wouldn't that be great?  Yeah, that and get gun laws to make sense while we are at it.  (shotgun double ott and target rounds, fine; beanbag rounds, pepper shot, salt - illegal)  Oops, let's not discuss gun laws, that's just an example of being unable to get CA laws to make sense.

[thisismatt]

SR20DET is basically illegal no matter what you do, since it was never offered stateside and never saw federal or state emissions requirements.  If you're really so concerned, do a modern swap and retain all the emissions components and get the sticker of approval from a referee.  Or just do like 99% of the rest of people, get a '75 or older vehicle, put in whatever you want and don't act like a retard in the vicinity of any DOT official. 

[datzenmike]

* EGR: honestly this is counter-intuitive.  Supposedly it keeps the intake air cool (pumping hot dirty air makes it cool? I'm confused) but if it is so great, why do JDM engines not bother with it?  So if it is already on the equipment I install, I wouldn't go out of my way to remove it, or vice-versa.

.

EGR uses inert exhaust gasses. In other words little to no oxygen content and it just takes up space in the combustion chamber. When mixed with the incoming fuel and air it dilutes it and reduces power and peak cylinder temps and pressures where most oxides of nitrogen are produced. It's not much and you probably won't even notice it. To make up the loss the throttle is simply opened very slightly further. EGR is not enabled on a motor that is still warming up, it is not on when idling and it is not on at wide open throttle so the excuse for removing it 'because it robs power' is laughable.

 

 

* PCV: ventilation of some sort is very important for the crankcase, but I'd prefer to have a catch-can inline and/or route it with an aftermarket large inline filter to a point I choose in the intake.

If you have a properly functioning PCV system then a catch can is no more needed that a rear spoiler. It's totally a 'race car' item to catch fluids from a possible blown motor and keep off the track. The PCV simply draws air in the valve cover to displace warm vapors from the crank case and routs them back into the motor to be burned. Under certain throttle conditions the flow can reverse and this is why the valve cover vent hose goes back to the inside of the air filter and any vapors are sucked into the carb directly. Running the valve cover hose to a catch can does a disservice to everyone as the fumes are vented into the atmosphere. Any oil or water collected has to be disposed of... usually thrown away. Again... where does it go? Better to leave the PCV system as it is. It's a remarkable and elegant way to reduce hydrocarbon emissions and extend engine life while being totally benign in operation.

[NeverFinished]

...just do like 99% of the rest of people, get a '75 or older vehicle, put in whatever you want and don't act like a retard in the vicinity of any DOT official. 

We are the 99%.  Seriously, that was my take on the subject from the beginning.  But senior members here and others are saying that just isn't good enough, that there are random stops, some guy got pulled over and his VIN and equipment checked 500 feet from home, and a lot of naysayers are telling me I really shouldn't put in anything but stock.  Probably not one 510 at a recent meet had any smog equipment on their cars.  I would just seriously be crushed (pardon the pun) if my car was impounded after building a car up with a serious SR20DET build (not just stuffing in a JDM engine as-is, which is expensive enough from the beginning).  Much rather determine the odds of my eventually losing my car before I begin the build.

 

As DatsenMike wrote on another thread (who "liked" your response, btw):

"If you have a motor transplant start preying."

Well Mike, I hope you don't mean that literally, as preying on an officer with a gun is probably a bad idea.  I don't really think praying will do any good either!

 

So yeah, I'm looking to do... an ILLEGAL swap.  That's a given.  How to minimize problems (as you say don't act like a retard around any DOT official), or how to minimize the ramifications, or what people with particular illegal swaps have experienced; would be helpful information.  For instance, has anyone actually been busted with an SR20DET in a pre-smog car, and what happened?  Is a Frankenstein build based on an L20B the safer way to go since it looks so much like what is supposed to be there?

[datzenmike]

Ha ha I don't often get corrected for spelling. It's a pane when it happens to you.

 

ANYTHING other than stock runs a risk of falling afoul of the law. You can apply some risk management by not drawing attention to yourself or cleverly disguising a built LZ 2.3 as a stock L16. Nothing can protect you from a random stop though. Even an LZ hybrid won't have the L16 stamp on the block, it might or might not be noticed. You would, however be able to slip the stock motor back in in an afternoon.

 

Other than that get a KA24DE or w/e and go through the process.

[Ooph!]

I don't understand what all the fretting is about.

If you are building a pre 75 car the powers that be will never bother you.

Have you ever seen or heard of a 30's 40's what ever being told they cannot put a chevy V8 into their hot rod ?

From the BAR website "

Are any cars exempt?

Vehicles with two-cycle engines, engines under 50 cubic inch displacement and vehicles powered by electricity are exempt.

All 1973 and older model year vehicles are not required to get a smog inspection under any circumstances"

 

 As for older but smog year cars 1975 and newer if you cannot easily find parts and it wont pass the test you take it to a referee.

They will determine if it is too expensive to repair and may grant waivers.

You can also swap to a different engine in a post 75 car but there are rules to go about it but it's possible.

Car's don't get impounded in Cali for smog equipment it's a fixit ticket, if anyone's car gets impounded it's for a serious infraction like drag racing, speeding burnout's etc.

 

 

 

[FiveSeventyZee]

So what are you really asking?...sorry just to long for me to read ,and no boobies to look at.lol

 

this..

 

 Or just do like 99% of the rest of people, get a '75 or older vehicle, put in whatever you want and don't act like a retard in the vicinity of any DOT official. 

 

and this...

 

 

as for my 2 cents...if you DO build a car that isn't smog legal, DON'T go around telling people like its some sort of bragging right...it doesnt look or sound cool and you never know who might have a grudge against you and report it

[Ranman72]

mike got spell checked   thats funny and deserves some maybe 2 more why not

[datzenmike]

But to counter it I deliberately slipped another in and no one said anything...

 

Ha ha I don't often get corrected for spelling. It's a pane when it happens to you.

.

Do I get beewbs the same or of equal value as those luscious ones???

[Ranman72]

But to counter it I deliberately slipped another in and no one said anything...

 

.

Do I get beewbs the same or of equal value as those luscious ones???

only if someone notices

yes those were nice I might say

and I am quite sure we can find more beewbs

[datzenmike]

 

Poor thing.... never taken seriously and no one knows the color of your eyes.

[flatcat19]

Want to beat California? 

Get out of California. 

 

So, pre-75?

 

510, 521, early 620, 610, 1200 240Z. 

You've got lots of choices. 

All this effort trying to scheme-you could be hunting Datsuns. 

 

Go North. Get a non-Cali, pre-75 Datsun. 

Easy. 

[thisismatt]

So was the "pane" misspelling tongue in cheek, mike?

 

I think in that other thread mike was making hyperbole about the whole smog deal (wasn't that the thread about VIN swaps?), but I only remember it vaguely.  I think people were getting their panties in a wad.  I have to agree that there should only be a tailpipe test, but I bet dollars to donuts that many of the "rules" are simply to stimulate consumption (new car purchases) while piggybacking on pollution laws.  Like mike has said, much of the smog equipment is fine, just sometimes a hassle to deal with during a swap.  The way I see it, you either do a swap and don't worry about the small chance you get sent to a ref (at which point you put in the work to make it legal/revert to OEM equipment), or you do a swap with all the equipment from the donor motor, get it ref'd, and live happily ever after.  I think everyone misses the fact that 99.9% of the guys running the original equipment in most Datsuns are missing the smog equipment they originally came with and they too could get "in trouble" for it.

[Burabuda]

hmm, she might be wearing this underneath

 

[mrbigtanker]

Thank you for the boobies,i asked first Mike.lol

 

All what these guys said is so ture,The only thing i will say is you dont want to deal with the state referee,just swap it put a big motor in it with a big bad ass turbo or go with the frankinstein 2.3 and dont be a idiot in front of the cops and boom your all good.

[Ranman72]

put mirrors on your car

run seat belts

run a front licence plate

run bumpers

dont be an idiot

drive your pre smog motor swaped car and enjoy

 

2 keep all origional parts incase a cop finds you being an idiot and one or more of the above are not followed

[NeverFinished]

'got distracted by all them nice boobies.

 

I felt Mike's "pane" just thought I'd be a boob to say anything on an intentional error.  I started a thread on HybridZ which has some serious panty-twisting going on about not changing my engine, cars getting impounded on the spot, the sky is falling, stuff like that.  Even moderators and "contributing members" said I really can't do an engine change without going through the referee.  So I starting this thread as an afterthought.

 

Ooph! brought up a really great point.  The following website, which is only a buyer's guide, not a copy of the law (and I spent over an hour trying to find such a law):

http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/02_SmogCheck/Used_Vehicle_Smog_Equip_Req.html

really does say, "All 1973 and older model year vehicles are not required to get a smog inspection under any circumstances."

That's awesome, but contradicts what I read and hear about engine swaps.  There is so much junk written on the subject that I can't find accurate data.  Foreign vehicles are smog exempt in CA if built by 1967 (some US made are 67, others are 65) - but does that mean a 1968 510 if it was built by December 1967 is completely smog exempt?  After that, they must have the smog equipment of the engine that is installed.  If the engine is swapped, it must be to a newer engine (not sure if equal year is allowed), and every swap must be shown to the referee, including having all emissions equipment of the newer engine in place.  If the newer engine is not smog exempt (thus 1976 or newer), then the vehicle gets tagged as being required to be smog tested biennially and when sold - forever.

 

That said, the law seems fuzzy, even subjective (up to the police officer) for 1968-1975 vehicles.  If I can throw any engine in a 1973 or older 240Z or 510 and not be inspected, that would be just great.  Problem is, I'm not convinced that is the case.  Apparently the CHP can check any vehicle on the road, and any vehicle they consider might not be in compliance gets a fix-it ticket and has to go to the referee within ten days, and the referee will not allow the engine swap without all the emissions control for the engine and if the engine is 1976 or newer, then has to be inspected forever (and even then, they hate the word swap, so say "engine change", sheesh).  I'm pulling information from various sources.

 

A few links:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d03/vc4161.htm

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARResources/ftp/pdfdocs/Reference%20Guide%20Section%20I%20and%20II%2012-2009.pdf

(on page six, the first paragraph says that gasoline engines 1976 or newer must be inspected, yet the second paragraph says vehicles 1975 or older are exempted - since elsewhere CA law states that all engine changes must be reported... that means any engine swapped vehicle must be inspected - doesn't it?)

http://jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Chevrolet_S-10_V-8_Smog.html

(Jags That Run - explaining how doing an engine change on any vehicle requires going through the referee)

http://jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Datsun_Z_V-8.html

(Jags That Run - explaining that the DMV no longer requires an emissions test on vehicles 1973 or older, so swapping in a V8 doesn't need to be reported - I have no idea if that website is updated, or if I interpreted it correctly)

In fact, I just wrote an email to Jags That Run.  I hope they can offer a clear answer.

If 1973 and older are now completely safe, then that's what I'll get.

If 1967 and older are the only ones that are totally safe... anyone know where I can find a 410/411 sedan or wagon body shell cheap to be gutted (seem sacrilege to do it, so would need to be one that isn't worthy of proper restoration) to fully tube frame, upgrade suspension, and install an SR20DET?

[Ranman72]

also some less populated areas dont have to smog either

it is possible that you are so woried about the unclear letter of the law you might attract cops by accident by being to suspiciouse looking around them. like the guilty look

 

it might be better to buy a car and leave it stock even though you dont have to smog it

[flatcat19]

Going through a lot of effort. 

I mean good job for doing your homework. 

 

Are you this paranoid about other things in life?

 

 

 

Just buy a car already and roll the dice. 

[NeverFinished]

 

it is possible that you are so woried about the unclear letter of the law you might attract cops by accident by being to suspiciouse looking around them.

So I've gone from trying to figure out what the law actually says, to looking suspicious?  That's a stretch.  I'd love to see your B110 1200 Coupe, to see if the model is big enough for me.  At 1600lbs, that would do quite nicely with a light, initially stock late model engine, and since there's likely no demand for JDM SR20DE from the S14-S15 Sylvia, the entire engine/transmission/intake/exhaust/Wiring/ECU could be had for cheap.  The Frontier QR25DE (2007+ revised that messed up bottom end design) would be a low revving but really great power to weight ratio, economy engine for the 1200 as well.

 

FlatCat19: "Going through a lot of effort.  I mean good job for doing your homework.  Are you this paranoid about other things in life?  Just buy a car already and roll the dice."

You might say I did that with a house at $80K down, and eventually have nothing to show for it.  So, in your terms... yes, I am this paranoid about spending maybe a year and $10K (maybe more) only to have it disappear.  But also, this thread isn't about me.  It's an open discussion of the current state of CA's SMOG laws and how to navigate them.  And about boobies.

[flatcat19]

A 1200 with an A15 motor from an 80's 210 goes like snot. And looks just like an A12.

Hell. The A12 is a fun motor in those as is. 

 

An LZ motor motor looks just like an L16, L18, or an L20B. 

Stuff that in a 510, 521, 610, 620, 710. 

 

You're way over thinking this stuff. 

 

 

Buy a Datsun. Enjoy the ride. 

[bonvo]

ok ok ok i have read threw this whole thread and as someone who played the california smog game i feel the need to chip in

 

first and formost what part of cali are you in? that plays a factor in everything if your in so cal you need to be a little more careful

 

two if the car is a 1975 or older it does not need to pass smog...period even if you get pulled over by a cop and for some reason he looks under your hood (been there) he will ask about smog equipment you point out the year of the car and they let you go if you have a really really anal cop you will get a fix it ticket which can be dismissed in court by proving its a pre 76 car

 

last but not least who cares? cops usually dont fuck with old cars unless your doing something stupid and even then they arent caring about the emissions

 

cali smog laws have nothing to do with emissions and everything to do with getting older cars off the road so that people have to buy new ones so work the system