Say hello to Phuglee my "new" 710 Wagon! (Lots 'o Pics)

[O.D.D.]

not pictured..... the burgundy 350z in showroom shape, parked right next to the wagon.  What can I say, my priorities are a little weird.

[datsunfreak]

Ok its not EXACTLY gold..... but ....

 

I'd say thats at least a lot of yellow.  (hehe)

 

 

Commonly called "Rally Gold" (wonder why?), and it is the superior gold choice for wheels.   B)

[O.D.D.]

Alriight... its been a while, got some more lil shi*t done. Got tired of how the rear hatch looked, and made it a little funkier... and got the rear window trim painted in black. 

 

 

 

 

 

[O.D.D.]

 I got the C pillar covers done (minus the artwork I was hoping to finagle a friend into), as well as the rear License plate light housing, (which must weigh 10 lbs - goddamn thick casting)  That part is now the ONLY giveaway as to what Make/Model the car is, other than the center caps hinting at "z" cousin-age... (cousin-age is that a word? dont think so, but it is now)

 

Not the greatest pics...

 

 

 

 

 

This leaves painting the side trim and handles black (still not sure black/blue on the handles) and painting the front trim black. The stainless around the headlights needs to go gold, and possibly the headlight surrounds as well. (I have a black set painted so I will try those first)

 

 Thing is,,, Im outta gold paint again. (damnit) Turns out, when painting a '77, one can never have enough GOLD PAINT! yeayuh!

[Eagle_Adam]

looks good  :thumbup:

[opalbeetle]

I love the creativity! Looks awesome!!

[Bentaxlebob]

Nice ! :)

[MicroMachinery]

Very unique!

[O.D.D.]

Anyone wanna guess what my next 'lil project is?

 

 

I pulled better inserts outta the 2dr 710 struts than I did outta the 280zx struts. lol

 

 

Tokicos came from the 710, monroes (gag) from the 280zx. 

 

 

Anybody have a recommendation for replacement inserts that fit the stock housings? My local parts guy is at a loss (his shit sez NLA), and my only other idea is going with 240z/280zx inserts, and either shimming the struts in the tubes or shortening the tubes themselves. 

 

I amd going for firmer and a bit lower (2-2.5in).... but no real good ideas on alternative insert options....

[O.D.D.]

Has anyone bought strut inserts recently that fit the OEM housings?

 

I cant seem to find one in either KYB or Tokico. Not really interested in monroes, etc.... 

 

My only other option is be shims or shortening the housings for Z inserts of my choosing. 

[O.D.D.]

Ok - nevermind. 

 

Got complete and matching stories from several sources. Add another NLA part to the already long list of sh*t you cant easily get for your Datsun. 

 

Tokico hasnt made them in a long while now, and KYB just stopped offering them as well. If I werent so hard headed I could put in monroes. but given my desire to lower the thing, putting in a sh*t set of inserts doesnt seem ideal. 

 

240z inserts and shims it is. 

 

On a lighter note, it appears there are ride assist air shocks available for the rear end if I want them . THAT has some appeal. Never had a set of those before, and they dont seem overly expensive. 

 

Anybody have thoughts on those?

[Eagle_Adam]

i havnt yet, its on the to do list 

[O.D.D.]

Im also trying to find some Strut Spacers (RCAs) that are less than $75 -shipped.

 

When did this become a $100 piece of metal? 

 

(goddamn I am cheap)

[O.D.D.]

Ok...

 

Took a few glam shots for a Costco Employee rides contest... Dont Think Im going to make the final cut, too many employees worldwide for my cars to be the cream of the crop.... 

 

 

 

 

Note the "famous" Morro Rock out in the harbor... (background)

 

Morro Bay - the only city in the country with a freakin' PET ROCK

[O.D.D.]

Anybody wondering how the front springs turned out?  

 

The Pics above are BEFORE I dropped the front... These are AFTER.....

 

 

Took just over 2 inches out of the front end height. 

 

Definitely not SLAMMED, but it is geometrically correct.  (control arms NOT pointing up) 

 

 And I dont have to tiptoe over speedbumps. driveways, gutters, etc.....

[O.D.D.]

Dropping it to this height required taking 2.5 coils off the front springs. I could have done NOTHING and dropped it an inch just by using the 240z inserts. I did have to make a 1.5in spacer to put into the strut tube. Had I shortened the tubes, I could have avoided cutting springs at all. 

 

I figured it was too soft for my taste, and I had a 2nd set of springs JIK I did something dumb. 

 

Started by taking a coil and a half off, (really the top coil and laydown bit).... just dropped the inch that the shorter struts made.... so i had to cut a 2nd time. 

 

I really like the ride. Firm and Controlled in front....steering is crisp, no more brake dive.......soaks up bumps nicely. now to get the rear sorted. 

 

FRONT TIRE...

 

 

REAR TIRE (used to be .5in lower than front @ 4 inches... front WAS 4.5)

[O.D.D.]

 

 

Not the most spectacular change to look at, but the FEEL, oh god the feel. Nothing like new bushings, bearings, and balljoints.... 

[datsunfreak]

Dropping it to this height required taking 2.5 coils off the front springs. I could have done NOTHING and dropped it an inch just by using the 240z inserts. I did have to make a 1.5in spacer to put into the strut tube. Had I shortened the tubes, I could have avoided cutting springs at all. 

 

Too short an insert (without cutting springs) could maybe not give it enough droop, though? Could get some weird noises/handling over an undulating road, or the inside wheel could lift off the pavement in hard cornering. 

[O.D.D.]

Too short an insert (without cutting springs) could maybe not give it enough droop, though? Could get some weird noises/handling over an undulating road, or the inside wheel could lift off the pavement in hard cornering. 

What do you mean by "droop"?  I am guessing the fully extended limit of the arm on its way down...

 

either that or you are talking about fully compressing the spring coil while still having travel in the strut?  I could see that given that it is a 16 inch spring in a 10in housing already.... coils were just over an inch apart before any mods. They would have been too soft, in my opinion, to leave uncut... I was basically realizing that there was a 2nd path to arriving at the same height I am at....that theoretically could have been reached without cutting springs.  (which was pissing me off at the time....since I had to cut 2x)

 

The control arm has really only lost about 1inch of travel.. (240z inserts are 1in shorter travel....2 in shorter total had i cut the strut tubes instead of making spacers.

 

Ive had 240z inserts in the 280zx struts on my 510 for several years with no issues so i expect no troubles. I have no hard cornering planned for the wagon in the future, (that is the job of the 510). What I want out of the wagon is smooth supple bump-soakin' goodness with just enough ground clearance to eat up the shitty streets in my county and just enough stiffness to throw a load of sh*t in the back and stay off the stoppers. 

[datsunfreak]

What do you mean by "droop"?  I am guessing the fully extended limit of the arm on its way down..

 

Not exactly. More like how much the car itself can come up before the tire leaves the pavement. It needs a decent amount of droop travel and well as compression travel (how far the car can go down before you bottom out the shock). 

 

 

Ive had 240z inserts in the 280zx struts on my 510 for several years with no issues so i expect no troubles.

 

Those two are the exact same length though.   ;)

[O.D.D.]

right....and the result (without strut spacers) would make for 2" less droop if I am thinkng correctly.   

 

280zx strut is shorter than 510 strut by 1in, 240z insert has 1in less total travel than 280zx insert (i think?)

 

Regardless... previously the car RODE so tall that the arms were 2/3 of the way to full droop.  Now they sit right in the middle of the range of motion.  Though i have less total travel in the suspension by 1in, I have a greater amount of body lift available before the shocks reach full extension.

 

There are one or 2 spots on the 101fwy where I live that used to fully extend the font pretty violently before. The resulting camber changes, etc were not fun to deal with. It will be interesting to see how the car behaves now. i cant imagine it being any worse than stock springs and fully blown out ORIGINAL fluid inserts and valving.

 

With the spacers... there is only one inch of travel difference, hardly enough to make a disaster. Unless there is something significant I am missing...

 

I mentioned the 510 because is has over 2in less "droop" and even on the roughest back roads, I havent had a wheel lift.  Its rear springs are WAAAY HARDER though... so I can see that happening to the wagon. 

 

Thing is ... the wagon moves like an old woman. I really dont have any plans to make it handle any more than is necessary to get me to work, make crisp lane changes, and avoid an obstacle in a life threatening situation instead of hitting it head on. (or sideways etc).

 

Monroe and AC delco seem to be the only companies with OEM length inserts available for 510-610-710 struts, and they suck nards... I couldnt find  tokico or KYB insert that fits, and is not NLA....so  I did the next best thing. Its been done before, and was recommended by the Datsun person I trust most.... so convnicing me there will be weirdness will be an uphill struggle.  

 

If I post pics of it flipped over in a ditch....with struts sticking out like broken bones, feel free to say I told ya so.  :cool:

[datsunfreak]

I think you're still missing my point. All I'm saying is it's a good thing you cut the springs and lowered it.   :rofl:

 

If you run a shorter insert without lowering it, it could cause a problem. Not saying it will cause a problem.  ;)

 

 

Crappy example to explain my point:

 

Say a shock has 6" of total travel. You want to use the 2" in the middle of the travel during normal use. Save the 2" of compression (at the bottom) and 2" of extension (at the top) for "emergencies". 

 

The stock set-up works as I described above. Now imagine a shock 2" shorter but you didn't lower the car. Now you're using the 2" at the top and you have no droop travel.

 

Make sense?

[O.D.D.]

lol - gotcha... totally. it would have topped out constantly and BADLY. 

 

even with the longer shocks and stock springs there was little up-travel left. 

 

I never had any actual thoughts of not cutting the springs down, it was more a comment of how little height difference removing 2.5 coils  made. I was a tad worried my math was wrong and I was going to over chop the things, I was cautious and ended up having to cut twice. I was pretty sick of the dissassemble-reassemble-drop-lift process that resulted. 

 

Hence the "goddamnit, I could have done nothing and lost an inch.... all this work for an extra 1.5 inches" 

 

There is a more accurate way to do the calcs, I used the starting compressed/uncompressed height ratio of the spring

 

 

spring compressed height 9-10 in.

                                                          >  9/16 =.5625.  or 10/15 =.6666

uncompressed 15-16in. 

 

Then applied it to the cutting height of the uncompressed spring...

 

cut 4 in....   .5625 x 4 = 2.25 in. 

 

So I knew that cutting 4-5 inches would be fine , and worst case could drop the car like2.5- 3 in of the 4.5 of clearance I had.....

 

Before you say it (cuz I know you are thinking it) ....obviously cutting the spring makes it stiffer and thereby it will compress at a LESSER ratio when cut .

I used this simple method because I knew (at least on paper) that between the stiffer spring and conservative ratio used I would end up with less drop than on paper, NOT MORE....  and it was a 30 second rough estimate of what sort of change I would be making to the stock spring.  

 

Well... after doing that... I talked to a few guys locally who have been doing this since before I could drive who BOTH strongly advised against using my math, and said to start by just cutting 2-3 inches off and THEN seeing how much a difference it made.... so I took the time and did things twice, and ended up almost exactly where I had thought I would be on paper.... In fact I cut a vertical inch more than I had worked out  because of the stiffness so I was never in any danger. 

[datsunfreak]

I never had any actual thoughts of not cutting the springs down, it was more a comment of how little height difference removing 2.5 coils  made. I was a tad worried my math was wrong and I was going to over chop the things, I was cautious and ended up having to cut twice. I was pretty sick of the dissassemble-reassemble-drop-lift process that resulted. 

 

Hence the "goddamnit, I could have done nothing and lost an inch.... all this work for an extra 1.5 inches" 

 

As you already know, this...

 

obviously cutting the spring makes it stiffer and thereby it will compress at a LESSER ratio when cut .

 

 

;)

 

 

Well... after doing that... I talked to a few guys locally who have been doing this since before I could drive who BOTH strongly advised against using my math, and said to start by just cutting 2-3 inches off and THEN seeing how much a difference it made.... so I took the time and did things twice, and ended up almost exactly where I had thought I would be on paper.... In fact I cut a vertical inch more than I had worked out  because of the stiffness so I was never in any danger. 

 

FWIW, our general rule of thumb is cut the spring just short enough to be able put it all together by hand (no spring compressor). Then go from there. So far, that's worked perfectly every time. Only once did I take it apart to cut more off. Never have had to say, "shit, we cut off too much!".    :thumbup:

[O.D.D.]

After the fact, it would seem that is totally dead on....another half coil and there would have been no need for the compressor, and the tire would be right at the limit of how low i would want to be. 

 

This is my first time cutting a set of strut springs.  (I did coilovers on the 510s Z struts)... didnt spend any time poking around online to see what was done before me...I had to get it done before going out of town for a week