ka24e timing... i want to die

[NorCalDime]

so i have this ka24e that i cant get to run... i replaced the timing chain, it was at TDC the 2 dark links lined up with the marks on the gears and i slapped it together. now the dist shaft has a half moon on it. So i faced the moon like a backwards D so the flat part was towards my exhaust like it said. This lined the dist rotor a little past the #1 cylinder acording to the cap. So i crank it and nothing. move the dist back and forth and nothing, so i flip the dist spindle so it is a D and try that way and nothing. Then i move the dist WAAYYYY out and it fires up but really rough and lotsa smoke like it is running on a few cylinders.

 

 

 

So what is the issue here? I found a write up on Nico forums that i followed and i hate trying to get info on these motors. I have found 3 different "right Ways" for the firing order, finally settling with the #1 on the #1 on my cap which is on the bottom of my dist and going counter clockwise 1342. But im still not getting it to go. Im reallt frustrated, ive tryed moving the dist shaft around and messing it with it but it wont work.

 

Another thing is that it ran somewhat before i changed the chain and guides.. I drove it around and it didnt idle well but would rev fine, then after i changed the chain and it idled and seemed to run ok. Then it bogged out and i left it till the morning and ended up trying to start it in the next day and nothing. like a gremlin came overnight and screwed with it. So i fiddled with the dist placement and it ran agian but horribly.

 

Could i have a blown headgasket or something? what else would cause this to start sometimes, but not others, and run bad? It had some white smoke before a few times but it seemed to clear up. Im really about to give up

[WagDatto]

I doubt it'd be headgasket. In our area, on startups, I typically get some white smoke, but it's just moisture in the exhaust and goes away after a few minutes of running. I'd go back through and make sure the chains were put on correctly, and that the distributor isn't off a tooth. It sounds like the timing might be related to being off at least a tooth or two on the distributor. Remember that the teeth are curved, so it's a bitch to try to slot in there perfectly.

 

Do you have a timing gun? That should tell you what's going on.

[NorCalDime]

no timing gun, i was gonna buy one, guess i might have to.

 

I pulled the front cover off and i know for sure that the chain is on there. I put the shaft in there exactly how it says to and no luck, i moved it 2 teeth in either direction and no luck. So i dont know what the deal is.

 

Does anyone know for absolute sure what the firing order is? Right now i have

43

21

Looking at the motor from the drivers side.

 

It is just such a pain to move the dist shaft around.

 

I think im willing to pay someone like 50 bucks if they can get it running...

[bagged_datsun]

does it have the right computer?

[Lozer]

i bet your 180 out on the crank.

[banzai510(hainz)]

Man I thought He had a L motor in his car that wasnt running good!!!!!

Now upgraded to a KA that isnt running good.

 

Did I miss something?

[napz510]

If you did set your timing chain correctly, try to do this or just double check it.

Pull the Oil Pump and Dist, reinsert the Oil Pump, make sure the mark on the shaft and the mark on the pump are in line with each other. Do this carefully, straight in so the gear does'nt move.

 

Make a mark on the metal lip of the Dist right below where number 1 plug wire goes, make sure rotor is turned to this spot.

 

Hold Rotor and Dist and try to insert, if it will go in and still be on the mark it's ok.

 

If it wont go in at this point the Oil Pump is off a tooth, sometime's it takes a few trys to get the Oil Pump in right.

[NorCalDime]

does it have the right computer?

 

I LOVE YOU!:D

 

I got this ka from a buddies garage that had a dohc in it as well. They were all in there and a few other motors as well. Turns out i looked up the serial of the ECU i had and found out it was the DOHC one!!!

 

So i called up my bud and he didnt want to give me the motor to go with my ecu;) so i went and traded back ecu's so i now have the correct one.

 

It is too late to try it now but i think tommorow will be a good day.

[NorCalDime]

Man I thought He had a L motor in his car that wasnt running good!!!!!

Now upgraded to a KA that isnt running good.

 

Did I miss something?

 

Lol Hainz i did have the screwed up l20. I got a hold of this motor for free and it ran on a bench test for a few secs so i pulled my L out and stuck this in.... then the problems began all over lol

 

 

 

Some upgrade

[NorCalDime]

If you did set your timing chain correctly, try to do this or just double check it.

Pull the Oil Pump and Dist, reinsert the Oil Pump, make sure the mark on the shaft and the mark on the pump are in line with each other. Do this carefully, straight in so the gear does'nt move.

 

Make a mark on the metal lip of the Dist right below where number 1 plug wire goes, make sure rotor is turned to this spot.

 

Hold Rotor and Dist and try to insert, if it will go in and still be on the mark it's ok.

 

If it wont go in at this point the Oil Pump is off a tooth, sometime's it takes a few trys to get the Oil Pump in right.

 

I will try this tommorow if it doesnt run. I think the timing is right, just the ecu that was screwing with me

[bagged_datsun]

I LOVE YOU!:D

 

I got this ka from a buddies garage that had a dohc in it as well. They were all in there and a few other motors as well. Turns out i looked up the serial of the ECU i had and found out it was the DOHC one!!!

 

So i called up my bud and he didnt want to give me the motor to go with my ecu;) so i went and traded back ecu's so i now have the correct one.

 

It is too late to try it now but i think tommorow will be a good day.

 

lol only reason i know is because i did the same think with my friends DOHC we havd a single computer and we spent like a month trying to tune it and the whole time i was like is it the right computer, he assured me yes but his buddy got it mixed up and 400 bucks later he had a new computer and the problem solved

Edited February 25, 2009 by bagged_datsun

[napz510]

Ka24e ecu have 2 led (light) and ka24de have only 1 led light.

[NorCalDime]

Ka24e ecu have 2 led (light) and ka24de have only 1 led light.

 

 

Lol yeah... I got the info about pulling codes on the Ka24e and i was like WTF im missing the green light... there is a spot for it but it isnt there. i thought someone ripped it off or something lol. Didnt even think that it was the wrong one. it just seemed like too bonehead of a thing

[WagDatto]

Hey, once you get the car running well enough to drive, hit me up. I have a timing gun, I'll help you check it out and make sure you're spot on with timing, and maybe advance it a few degrees for some extra oomph!

[NorCalDime]

ok new development.

 

I have the timing were i think it is right. Car wont idle still and is rough and shaky. I ajusted the idle screw so it revs higher and it will hold there. I went around and pulled injector wires from each cylinder. Number 2 made no change in idle, other ones made it almost die.

 

So i check and injector has power, pull rail out and crank and all 4 shoot uniform.

 

So i check for spark on all 4. Spark is good. I pull number 2 plug and crank it and it runs like it did, albiet rediculously loud. and that plug was firing.

 

Did a compression check all cylinders are between 145-150. Number 2 the problem cylinder was at 148.

 

So this whole thing makes no sense. I was expecting no or really low comp on 2 but since it is all normal, has fuel and spark what the hell is the deal?

[NorCalDime]

my dad suggested that it might be the crank angle sensor that is built into the dizzy... can that be removed and replaced or do i need to locate a diff dizzy? anyone in sac have a sohc dizzy i can borrow?

[napz510]

You said you have power on all the injectors.But do you have resistance on number 2 injector?It happened to me that all the injectors have power but still I had a bad idle.And I found out that my number 3 injector had no resistance. i replaced it then fixed the problem.

[datzenmike]

Doubt the CAS as it does run and you have spark and fuel on all.

 

Check the rotor and cap and the #2 wire. Try a spare wire on #2 if you have one. You may easily fire a plug outside the motor. The more gas, air and compression the harder it is inside the motor. This added 'resistance' could cause the spark to jump off somewhere else like a cracked cap or broken wire.

[NorCalDime]

You said you have power on all the injectors.But do you have resistance on number 2 injector?It happened to me that all the injectors have power but still I had a bad idle.And I found out that my number 3 injector had no resistance. i replaced it then fixed the problem.

 

Doubt the CAS as it does run and you have spark and fuel on all.

 

Check the rotor and cap and the #2 wire. Try a spare wire on #2 if you have one. You may easily fire a plug outside the motor. The more gas, air and compression the harder it is inside the motor. This added 'resistance' could cause the spark to jump off somewhere else like a cracked cap or broken wire.

 

I dont know about resistance on number 2. were is the resistor for it located and what should the resistance be?

 

It has a brand new cap and rotor and ive tryed different wires but no luck. I will inspect them to see if they are still looking good, and will try and switch the wires around.

[NorCalDime]

i found this thread on NICO forums that kinda goes with what im after.

 

The engine from the beginning only ran on 3 cylinders. It was the 3rd cylinder that would not fire. After swapping the 3rd cylinder injector with the 4th cylinder injector the 3rd cylinder started working and the 4th stopped. So naturally all signs pointed to a bad injector. I then purchased 2 more 550cc RX-7 injectors and replaced the "defective one". The engine started working on 4 cylinders...so i thought. after adding the turbo parts I had the Apexi SAFC hooked up with an n60 MAF. The car would start up and slowly die out. Hooked up a boost guage and got 20 on the vacuum side. So we then we unhooked the MAF and the SAFC. The engine is running on 3 cylinders again ( number 3 stopped working again).

 

We tested the spark plugs and they were sparking. We took out the injectors but left them plugged in and put a piece of cardboard under them. We cranked the car and all 4 were spraying equally. We tested for compression on a COLD engine and we got 150 across the board. Then i tried replacing the 3rd injector again with the spare one i had. We started the car and it started working on 4 cylinders again. After about 2 minutes, i heard the 3rd cylinder stop working

 

We thought that the car only runs right when its cold and then when its warm something heats up, possibly expands and gets stuck somewhere. So we waited a day to let the car cool down. The next morning I started her up and the car is still running on 3 cylinders. disproving our heating up and messing up theory.

 

It seems that every time i fiddle with the injectors (replace them, swap them, take them out put them in) that the engine starts working on 4 cylinders again but only for a very short period.

 

Today I am going to try to do a compression test after the car has warmed up to see if that 3rd cylinder still has compression. The thing that wierds me out is that the first time when i swapped the 3rd cylinder injector with the 4th cylinder injector, the 3rd STARTED working and the 4th STOPPED. At this point i have no clue whats wrong. possibly some kind of sensor might be going haywire. What do you guys think?

 

 

and a reply

 

Tom I just called you and left you a message and told you exactly what it is.

 

ALex in his shop has a sohc right now with the exact same problem. It was a crank angle sensor which is build into the Dist.

 

Thank you, Have a nice day.

[72240z]

Doubt the CAS as it does run and you have spark and fuel on all.

 

Check the rotor and cap and the #2 wire. Try a spare wire on #2 if you have one. You may easily fire a plug outside the motor. The more gas, air and compression the harder it is inside the motor. This added 'resistance' could cause the spark to jump off somewhere else like a cracked cap or broken wire.

 

Ah Idk Mike keep in mind my cas had been broke on my vg30 driving me crazy. It ran the entire time, just ran like shit with idle problems.

 

I would check everything you mentioned for sure but I would also check that cas.

 

Idk why this is such a guessing game. You did the comp test, now break out the manual, your multimeter and check every sensor and electrical component one at a time. That will be that......

[84TAVeRT]

make sure you have enough fuel pressure from the fuel pump...

[datzenmike]

Yeah, CAS is not EI dizzy, which again is not points. I should stay out of this.

 

Has the ECU fault codes been down loaded?

[ppeters914]

Ummmm, someone remind me again why FI is superior to carbs? :rolleyes:

[jesusno2]

Could very well be a CAS I didn't even know the single slammer had one? Hope mine is working lol? I have yet to start my engine. Another thing worth trying is making sure your engine is grounded well into the chassis. ignition systems can go haywire sometimes if the motor is not grounded well.found that out when installing EI dizzy in my goon.